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  1. #1

    Default Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    The trial of an Imam (local Islamic priest) on charges of sexually abusing an underage girl in a Bosnian village has stirred up tensions between local media organizations and the country’s influential Islamic Community. The family of the girl pressed charges against the Imam last year, accusing him of sexually abusing their underage daughter during religion classes. The lawsuit, Bosnia's first public case of alleged sexual abuse by a religious figure in recent history, was widely reported by local media.
    Some TV stations, newspaper and magazines went further and investigated the case, reporting on a further four cases of girls allegedly were abused by the same Imam in the past four years. They carried disturbing testimony from some of these girls and other witnesses, including even one of the Imam’s best friends, who said the Imam had admitted his wrongdoing to him.

    The reports triggered strong criticism from Bosnia’s Islamic Community. Last Friday, a three-person TV crew from one of the most popular local programs, Federal Television’s “60 Minutes”, was assaulted by what they said was a group of conservative Muslims. Two days later, a local villager due to testify for the prosecution in the trial, received threats.

    Despite the growing public criticism and media pressure, Bosnia's Islamic Community refused to comment on the trial before the court’s decision, which is expected on Friday.

    “Noone has the right to take over the role of the judge, before and above the court, and declare somebody guilty,” the Islamic Community said in a terse press statement on Sunday. However, local media also carried out the comments of Grand Mufti Mustafa Ceric, the leader of the Islamic Community, in one his sermons, in which he reportedly defended the conservative Muslim group and their actions.
    Outraged at the lack of any condemnation of the beating, FTV in its evening bulletin said that Ceric “is protecting pedophiles in the Islamic Community as well as hostile Wahabbis, and is openly calling for the lynch of unsuitable journalists.”
    This statement angered the Islamic Community, which then demanded a public apology from FTV. Adding fuel to the fire Ceric, visited the village on Tuesday, telling journalists “I have come here to testify that the villagers of Gluha Bukovica are not beasts.”

    With increased tensions between villagers, the Islamic community and media, some analysts say that the sex abuse case had become something much bigger, reopening old debates about religious radicalization and the role of religious communities and their leaders in post-war Bosnia and Herzegovina.
    The village of Gluha Bukovica had previously gained notoriety from being mentioned in several trials of the International War Crimes Tribunal for former Yugoslavia, ICTY, against Bosniak military commanders. During the war, the village was a base for groups of foreign Islamic fighters who came to Bosnia during the war to fight alongside the Bosniak-dominated Bosnian Army.


    http://balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/16605

    Not just the Catholics then?
    lol

  2. #2
    Ahlerich's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    catholics enjoy it more

  3. #3
    The Fishman's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    This seems to be the one type of shock story about Muslims that doesn't get very much attention.

    There will be paedos in every society and profession, it is a common human mental disorder. Where children and adults are together, there will be paedos, and the more they trust each other the more the paedos will take advantage of that trust. Paedophilia cannot be prevented, we can only catch the perpetrators, unfortunately.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fishman View Post
    This seems to be the one type of shock story about Muslims that doesn't get very much attention.

    There will be paedos in every society and profession, it is a common human mental disorder. Where children and adults are together, there will be paedos, and the more they trust each other the more the paedos will take advantage of that trust. Paedophilia cannot be prevented, we can only catch the perpetrators, unfortunately.

    Good post.
    lol

  5. #5
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Not just the Catholics then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    catholics enjoy it more
    Yes, because one or two bad priests makes everyone else the same, right?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fishman View Post
    This seems to be the one type of shock story about Muslims that doesn't get very much attention.

    There will be paedos in every society and profession, it is a common human mental disorder. Where children and adults are together, there will be paedos, and the more they trust each other the more the paedos will take advantage of that trust. Paedophilia cannot be prevented, we can only catch the perpetrators, unfortunately.
    Except we don't execute the victims.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Yes, because one or two bad priests makes everyone else the same, right?
    One or two? Roll eyes.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Yes, because one or two bad priests makes everyone else the same, right?


    There has been *many* bad priests. But the worst part has been the catholic churches policy of defending paedos and just sending them elsewhere, letting them be free to molest children again.


    When the Rev. James Porter abuse cases became public in the early 1990s, and again in January 2002 when the Globe revealed the extent of Rev. John Geoghan's abusive behavior, Cardinal Bernard F. Law characterized these as isolated incidents. But as documents started flowing from the church in 2002 and more alleged victims came forward, it soon became clear that clergy abuse was, in fact, a systemic problem in the Boston Archdiocese, involving scores of priests and hundreds of victims across the metropolitan area.

    For decades church leaders kept horrific tales of abuse out of the public eye through an elaborate culture of secrecy, decepetion, and intimidation. Victims who came forward with abuse claims were ignored or paid off, while accused priests were quietly transferred from parish to parish or sent for brief periods of psychological counseling.
    Far from being unaware of abusive behavior, Cardinal Law and his deputies had detailed information on many of the archdiocese's most serious molesters. Yet it was not until decades of allegations had accumulated against them that many abusive clergymen were removed from parish ministry. Despite reports of child rape and other criminal behavior by clergymen, church leaders made no apparent effort to inform law enforcement authorities. The scandal began brewing in Boston, but it was not isolated here. As public furor grew, other dioceses began confronting abusive clergy in their ranks. By the end of 2002, some 1,200 priests had been accused of abuse nationwide, according to a study by The New York Times. Over the course of the year, five US prelates resigned in connection with sex scandals, including Boston's Cardinal Law -- joining four others who had resigned in previous years. The crisis was also felt worldwide, with accusations of abuse or the mishandling of scandals forcing the resignation of bishops in Argentina, Germany, Ireland, Poland, Wales, Scotland, Canada, Switzerland, and Austria.
    Last edited by Haakon; February 12, 2009 at 01:52 AM.
    lol

  8. #8

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Funny thing is that this sort of protection doesn't exist in the majority of the Islamic world. Women are sometimes nothing but slaves with the right to remain silent, even more when dealing with religious figures; that's why this case is so exceptional.
    "Romans not only easily conquered those who fought by cutting, but mocked them too. For the cut, even delivered with force, frequently does not kill, when the vital parts are protected by equipment and bone. On the contrary, a point brought to bear is fatal at two inches; for it is necessary that whatever vital parts it penetrates, it is immersed. Next, when a cut is delivered, the right arm and flank are exposed. However, the point is delivered with the cover of the body and wounds the enemy before he sees it."

    - Flavius Vegetius Renatus (in Epitoma Rei Militari, ca. 390)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire le Philosophe View Post
    Funny thing is that this sort of protection doesn't exist in the majority of the Islamic world. Women are sometimes nothing but slaves with the right to remain silent, even more when dealing with religious figures; that's why this case is so exceptional.
    Is it just me or is there really a bit of over over-generalization in there? I live in a country with a 97% Muslim population and I can tell you that your statement is simply not true. In fact, most of the attacks on women here are done so in the name of family feuds, tribal jealousy, etc and Islam has nothing to do with them.

    Only a few weeks ago, one of (secular) Asif Zardari's henchmen said that it was "part of their culture" when quizzed by reporters and human rights activists about the extra-judicial execution and improper burial of three tribal girls. Those actions were undertaken by an ignorant and backward people but their motivation was not religious and their actions were not santified by Shari'ah. Here's a link to the story. According to Shari'ah, it's mandatory for the husband and wife to marry of their own will but the tribals "customs" of some override those rules.

    Even then, such cases are very rare. Yes, they do occur from time to time and when they do, there's so much outcry in the media and in our civil society that they get news coverage for weeks.
    Death be not proud, though some have called thee
    Mighty and dreadful, for, thou art not so.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Second the Fishman opinion's. Pedophiles aren't a special case unique to Western societies.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





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    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    What a shame. As I have mentioned before, there needs to be a proper school and education that these Imam's must go through to become an imam.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    Not just the Catholics then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlerich View Post
    catholics enjoy it more
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fishman View Post
    This seems to be the one type of shock story about Muslims that doesn't get very much attention.
    I love it when people smoothly slip from one case to an overgeneralized judgement.

    A catholic priest was charged of sexual abuse, so we should condemn the "catholics".

    Now an Islamic priest gets charged of sexual abuse, so people will condemn the "Muslims".

    So ignorant and narrow-minded.

    For the love of god, folks, have you heard of individual responsibility?

    Seconding Thanatos btw:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Yes, because one or two bad priests makes everyone else the same, right?
    Last edited by Aldgarkalaughskel; February 11, 2009 at 05:29 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Trivial regional issue that doesnt deserve to be on the Mudpit.

    This seems to be the one type of shock story about Muslims that doesn't get very much attention.
    Where this kind of story doesnt get much attention? In USA and Europe? You wanna know why because most Americans and Europeans are Christians and there are more priests than imams there.

    In Indonesia we hear about sexual scandals involving imams all the ing time and we rarely hear about sexual scandals involving priests. You know why? Because most of us Indonesians are Muslims and there are way more imams than priests in Indonesia.

    This is as idiotic as saying "How come never heard about sex abuses by Zoroastrian priests in America?" Well, how many Zoroastrian priests are there in America?!?

    Funny thing is that this sort of protection doesn't exist in the majority of the Islamic world.
    What constitutes the Islamic World?

    I really really hate it when people say 'the Islamic world' when they are actually talking about the 'Arab world' or 'the Middle East'.


    "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig

    "Feminists are silent when the bills arrive." -- Aetius

    "Women have made a pact with the devil — in return for the promise of exquisite beauty, their window to this world of lavish male attention is woefully brief." -- Some Guy

  14. #14

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by jankren View Post
    Trivial regional issue that doesnt deserve to be on the Mudpit.
    Well then 90% of thread in the forum should be closed then....

  15. #15
    Paul d's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Yeah, seeing as this is in Bosnia, which has a diverse mixture of many religious and cultural backgrounds. Doesn't quite constitute "Islamic World" does it?

  16. #16
    John McCain 2008's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    This is what happens when religions impose non-marriage laws for their priesthood. Every priest/imam should marry if they feel the need to, marriage, in many ways, can prevent sinning lustfully over other women.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The irony is that Americans have been experiencing a lot of change in their lives attributable to these historic events, and some of those changes have distressed many American families — job loss, failing schools, prohibitively expensive health care, pensions at risk, entitlement programs approaching bankruptcy, rising gas and food prices, to name a few. But your government often acts as if it is completely unaware of the changes and hardships in your lives. And when government does take notice, often it only makes matters worse."
    -John McCain

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    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCain 2008
    This is what happens when religions impose non-marriage laws for their priesthood. Every priest/imam should marry if they feel the need to, marriage, in many ways, can prevent sinning lustfully over other women.
    You mean like in the Orthodox Church (I think?)? :hmmm:

  18. #18
    John McCain 2008's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    You mean like in the Orthodox Church (I think?)? :hmmm:
    Yes, like the Orthodox and Protestants. They allow their priests (I don't think Protestants often use the term priest to describe their ministers) to marry if they feel they need to.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The irony is that Americans have been experiencing a lot of change in their lives attributable to these historic events, and some of those changes have distressed many American families — job loss, failing schools, prohibitively expensive health care, pensions at risk, entitlement programs approaching bankruptcy, rising gas and food prices, to name a few. But your government often acts as if it is completely unaware of the changes and hardships in your lives. And when government does take notice, often it only makes matters worse."
    -John McCain

  19. #19

    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia

    Quote Originally Posted by John McCain 2008 View Post
    This is what happens when religions impose non-marriage laws for their priesthood. Every priest/imam should marry if they feel the need to, marriage, in many ways, can prevent sinning lustfully over other women.
    Imams are allowed to marry, do marry and marry all 4 wives like are accepted into doing. Mind you this makes one single line of Imam's and their ideology pretty strong.

    Thats why, I would like them to take tests on various levels so that they can be educated much more than they are now, but still be within Islam's borders.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Imam Sex Abuse Trial Stirs Tensions in Bosnia


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