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Thread: - The Library -

  1. #21
    julianus heraclius's Avatar The Philosopher King
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius1 View Post
    the book list here is "so-so"
    Also the last mentioned title "The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" isn't really very good.
    There are only few black/white drawings inside and the descriptions of the late roman army are by far not "up-to-date"

    Strange: I have much older books which are more correct - actually it is because this book was made originally as wargaming-support.
    I think Barker's book "The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" is still pretty good. Granted more recent evidence has given us a different view of the armour of the late roman soldier, but I have found his descriptions of late roman organisation to be still pretty good. I would still recommend it as a start.

    I agree with SBH, would you like to share your list with us.

    Thanks

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  2. #22

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius1 View Post
    the book list here is "so-so"
    Also the last mentioned title "The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome" isn't really very good.
    There are only few black/white drawings inside and the descriptions of the late roman army are by far not "up-to-date"

    Strange: I have much older books which are more correct - actually it is because this book was made originally as wargaming-support.
    Whilst I would agree some of the material in 'The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome' needs updating and correcting, we must remember this was the first reference book of its kind to document the arms and equipment of the Imperial Roman Army and its opponents. Phil Barker has come around to the idea that the Late Roman Legionarii did wear metal armor, more likely mail, but is also convinced, as am I based on extensive recent research, that a large proportion of infantry wore a muscle cuirasse, which may either have been made out of rawhide or some sort of metal. And I would like to add that black and white drawings are much preferred by historians as they offer the greatest detail, without the risk of providing fanciful colour schemes for uniforms, armor, shield patterns etc.

    If you have books that you feel are worth reading concerning the Late Roman period between 350 and 400 AD I most certainly would like to know about them.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentinian Victor View Post
    ...we must remember this was the first reference book of its kind to document the arms and equipment of the Imperial Roman Army and its opponents.
    no it wasn't, I fear it's not true.
    Beside the wrong spellings, minor faults, and a too much summarised structure of the Roman army (to call all units or detachements Ordo is simply wrong)
    it is indeed a good book for support wargames like Warhammer ancient or warhammer historical.
    it fulfils his purpose.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius1 View Post
    no it wasn't, I fear it's not true.
    Beside the wrong spellings, minor faults, and a too much summarised structure of the Roman army (to call all units or detachements Ordo is simply wrong)
    it is indeed a good book for support wargames like Warhammer ancient or warhammer historical.
    it fulfils his purpose.
    What edition of 'The Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome' are you quoting from? My forth edition copy does not refer to 'all units or detachements Ordo', there are references to 'vexilliations', 'cuneus', 'alae', 'cohort', etc when discussing the later empires army composition.

    I don't want to endulge in a flame war, but as I have presented evidence, what book evidence have you got that proves your point that there was a reference book written before the mid 1970's (when the first edition of 'Armies and Enemies' came out' that contained greater detail with line drawings of most of the imperial troop types and their foes? You have also been politely asked by myself and others for your own contribution to this book list but have remained rather silent on this request so far.

  5. #25
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i âzam
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Roman Military Dress by Graham Sumner published by The History Press (2009) is also worth a look. Sumner also has a couple of Osprey books that deal with the later Roman Army - Roman Military Clothing (2) AD200-400 and Roman Military Clothing (3) AD 400-640.

    www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/
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  6. #26

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Erebus26 View Post
    Roman Military Dress by Graham Sumner published by The History Press (2009) is also worth a look. Sumner also has a couple of Osprey books that deal with the later Roman Army - Roman Military Clothing (2) AD200-400 and Roman Military Clothing (3) AD 400-640.

    You must be a mind reader as I'm just waiting for that to arrive from Amazon today1
    I'm also ploughing through Adrian Goldsworthy's 'The Fall of the Roman West' at the moment. I've also just received Peter Heathers new book about the Barbarian migrations as well.

  7. #27
    Erebus Pasha's Avatar vezir-i âzam
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentinian Victor View Post
    You must be a mind reader as I'm just waiting for that to arrive from Amazon today1
    I'm also ploughing through Adrian Goldsworthy's 'The Fall of the Roman West' at the moment. I've also just received Peter Heathers new book about the Barbarian migrations as well.
    I've been deciding on whether to buy Goldsworthy's book for about a month now. Is it worth it? At the minute I'm reading Potter's the Roman Empire at Bay as I'm interested in the crisis of the 3rd century.

    www.ottomanhistorypodcast.com/
    Under the patronage of the Noble Savage.

  8. #28
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    I saw Goldsworthy's new book today (new, as in, The Fall of the Roman West), and I was on the verge of buying it, but remembered how thin every other Goldsworthy book I've read has been. Is this much of the same, or an actual improvement?

    It was also in the proximity of Southern's The Roman Army, so I was wondering if that was a good book to pick up on the subject.
    Last edited by Stavroforos; July 05, 2009 at 06:09 PM.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I saw Goldsworthy's new book today (new, as in, The Fall of the Roman West), and I was on the verge of buying it, but remembered how thin every other Goldsworthy book I've read has been. Is this much of the same, or an actual improvement?

    It was also in the proximity of Southern's The Roman Army, so I was wondering if that was a good book to pick up on the subject.
    I'm not far enough into the reading ot Goldsworthy's new book to make a constructive critism yet I'm afraid. As to Dixon & Southern's 'The Late Roman Army', it has merit but also has its faults, as I noted in my book list section. I would buy it if I were you as it is a useful reference book. However, if you can obtain a copy of 'Twilight of Empire' by Nicaisie then I would do that in preference to the one by Dixon & Southern.

  10. #30
    SeniorBatavianHorse's Avatar Tribunus Vacans
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    While not strictly a Roman book, I have just purchased 'Shadows In The Desert; Ancient Persia At War' which throws interesting light on warfare in this period from a Sassanian perspective.

  11. #31
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Valentinian Victor View Post
    I'm not far enough into the reading ot Goldsworthy's new book to make a constructive critism yet I'm afraid. As to Dixon & Southern's 'The Late Roman Army', it has merit but also has its faults, as I noted in my book list section. I would buy it if I were you as it is a useful reference book. However, if you can obtain a copy of 'Twilight of Empire' by Nicaisie then I would do that in preference to the one by Dixon & Southern.
    Thanks for the recommendation!

  12. #32

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Stavroforos View Post
    I saw Goldsworthy's new book today (new, as in, The Fall of the Roman West), and I was on the verge of buying it, but remembered how thin every other Goldsworthy book I've read has been. Is this much of the same, or an actual improvement?
    You are talking about How Rome fell, right? I say buy it. I enjoyed it very much. I read Heather's The fall of the Roman Empire after it and I think Goldsworthy made a much better case ( could be because I share some of his opinions though... ). However, I agree that Goldsworthy can be a bit "thin" here and there and have this somewhat pompous attitude, but then again - which historian doesn't?

  13. #33
    Comes Domesticorum
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by Joar View Post
    You are talking about How Rome fell, right? I say buy it. I enjoyed it very much. I read Heather's The fall of the Roman Empire after it and I think Goldsworthy made a much better case ( could be because I share some of his opinions though... ). However, I agree that Goldsworthy can be a bit "thin" here and there and have this somewhat pompous attitude, but then again - which historian doesn't?
    Haha yeah, that's the one. Damn my mind.

    But I'll probably take up your recommendation, add the book to my summer reading. I read Ward-Perkins last summer and that was one excellent piece of work, and it was so well written. Every time I read Goldsworthy, I get angry. Don't know why, it just happens.

  14. #34
    Prince of Judah's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    I just picked up a book called "The Roman Empire" by Colin Wells in a used book store. Haven't read it yet but it looks good. It covers 44 BC - 285 AD.
    Last edited by Prince of Judah; September 28, 2009 at 07:52 AM.

  15. #35
    elendir's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    This is an extremely good bibliography online

    http://www.fectio.org.uk/bibliogrromam.htm

  16. #36
    SeniorBatavianHorse's Avatar Tribunus Vacans
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    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Nice - thank you!

  17. #37

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    I'm just wondering if anyone can read in French or German? There are a fair number of works that deals with late antiquity that are not written in English.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    I'm just wondering if anyone can read in French or German? There are a fair number of works that deals with late antiquity that are not written in English.
    Any recommendations? French titles only for me please, I'm afraid my German is non existent .

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  19. #39

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    I'm still in the process of learning those two language, so I cannot say that I know a lot of works. Most of my knowledge about their works is due to recommendation by others who can understand German, and by looking at the sources used by English authors.

    A few books that deals with the late roman army mentioned the work done by Hoffmann, D.

    Das spätrömische Bewegungsheer und die Notitia dignitatum.

    Then there's another book by Yann Le Bohec, entitled,
    L&armee romaine de Dicoletien a Valentinen Ier.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Late Roman Book List

    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    I'm still in the process of learning those two language, so I cannot say that I know a lot of works. Most of my knowledge about their works is due to recommendation by others who can understand German, and by looking at the sources used by English authors.

    A few books that deals with the late roman army mentioned the work done by Hoffmann, D.

    Das spätrömische Bewegungsheer und die Notitia dignitatum.

    Then there's another book by Yann Le Bohec, entitled, L&armee romaine de Dicoletien a Valentinen Ier.
    Those two books are rather standard works now, although more modern works are vying to replace them as standard text's. Lots of authors quote from them, but I have wondered exactly how many of those authors can read German or French and therefore they are probably taking quotes from other works (a pretty standard practice sadly).

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