Few Men Desire Liberty ...

[Oldgamer]

All of you gentlemen and the occasional lady will finally find out who I am, in about a year. I'm in the process of writing a book that will be one of the bases for the creation of a conservative ... if it can really be called "conservative" ... party in the United States, and I'll have to "come out of the closet (as it were).

I've met with people from all over the country, and the purpose of the new party will be to dethrone the One Party.

Don't believe that the Democrats and Republicans are merely two sides of the same corrupt coin?

Right now, David Frum is putting together a website called newmajority.com, in which they are soliciting "ideas" from "conservatives" all over America. However, listening to him speak on the Dennis Miller Show, this morning, it is obvious that the country-club Republicans have gained total power within that powerless party, and they seriously intend to do away with social conservatism as an element of the party. People are not abandoning the GOP ... the GOP is abandoning them.

The book I'm writing will expose what's going on in the GOP, and I spent almost all of the Fall Campaign in the company of the GOP Left, as I traveled about with the McCain Campaign, including Frum (who was the chief policy advisor to McCain ... and now, you know the rest of that story).

Since I only get back to the TWC about every two weeks, I will tell you exactly how radical a conservative can get ...

The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else. So, what will happen when the party gains power?

The States shall have their rights returned to them. The Federal government will be cut by about 80%, and many departments shall be dismantled, including the IRS, the EPA, and the Department of Education. Income taxation, except on foreign entities doing business with the US, will be abolished. In its place, a consumption tax to be capped at 10% will be instituted.

The illegals and their children shall be deported to their home countries, to include everyone made "legal" by the Obama Administration. The borders will be protected with terminal force.

Everyone who has worked enough to make the credits required by the SSA will still receive Social Security when the retire, or are disabled. But everyone else shall have to find another method of funding their retirement.

The Federal government shall have three legal powers, only. They are to provide for national defense, to engage in foreign policy, and to regulate interstate commerce. Every law in the federal code that exceeds these powers shall be abolished.

Abortion shall be returned to the States for their consideration, and the States had better consider the Second Amendment when they attempt to restrict gun ownership.

There are almost an infinite number of other ideas which can and will be implemented, but I suspect you get the idea.

As Sallust, the Roman historian said, "Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for just masters." I and the hundreds of people I've already talked to will not be ruled by any master.

As long as I'm here, today, I'll respond to anyone who posts. Otherwise, I'll come back in about two weeks.

[Thanatos]

I'm glad to see you again, sir. I do find your policies to be quite agreeable, even if I disagree on Social Security, but everything else seems good.

[Oldgamer]

I'm glad to see you again, sir. I do find your policies to be quite agreeable, even if I disagree on Social Security, but everything else seems good.

Thank you, my friend!

Concerning Social Security, I don't want anyone who has achieved the requisite numbers of work credits to be denied the money that they've paid into the system. As time goes on, the number of people who would qualify for SS Retirement would dwindle, by natural attrition.

For the younger people, why not plan from an early age for one's retirement?

[Aetius]

Excellent, you have just become a Libertarian (except for the borders part but no big deal), the final resting place for those who fully understand the government.

And yes, Social Security is failing/failed. I do not want to pay into that, I might as well be throwing my money into a bonfire.

[Thanatos]

God help me if I ever became Libertarian. They're more on track than Republicans or Democrats, but they seem to get some things wrong, especially in economics. Free trade comes to mind.

[Oldgamer]

God help me if I ever became Libertarian. They're more on track than Republicans or Democrats, but they seem to get some things wrong, especially in economics. Free trade comes to mind.

Libertarians agree on 95% of the issues facing America, today. However, the other 5% cause them to literally hate each other. This explains why the Libertarians will never come to power. They have such potential, that's the shame of it.

[Jabberwock]

it's easy to talk about freedom this and freedom that, but in reality people just want comfortable lives.

The truth of the People.

The People only care about freedom when they lose that comfortable life.

We in America are very comfortable.

[Bwaho]

ron paul already tried this and failed.


it's easy to talk about freedom this and freedom that, but in reality people just want comfortable lives.

[Oldgamer]

ron paul already tried this and failed.


it's easy to talk about freedom this and freedom that, but in reality people just want comfortable lives.

Ron Paul was thwarted in his attempts by the Left-leaning, country-club Republicans, who planted people in the audiences of the debates to "boo" him, and make him an extremist. I know this is true, because the people around McCain laughed about it, and I was there to hear them laugh.

As Randall Wallace had William Wallace would say (In his screenplay to Braveheart), "What will you do without freedom?" In answer to that, I say to you that you will have either just or unjust masters.

I think it possible that you are mistaking freedom for "unfairness". Is someone who is free unable to achieve a comfortable life?

[Lovejoy]

I am not sure I understand you, but would there be no education for everyone in your "new country"? If I were born in a poor family I would have no choice but to work? :/

[IrishHitman]

You do this, and America loses its place as la hyperpuissance.
The much talked about (and generally assumed) American leadership of the world would be eliminated. The US would fall far behind economically, militarily, and socially.

Individual liberty is great.
Social liberty, that is.

Complete economic liberty leads to disasters, as we've seen.
Economics are so important, that (the level of) control over it should be in the hands of the people via a democratic system.

[antares24]

hello oldgamer, nice to see you again, your post on a new party was interesting, but about his positions i have to say this:

The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else. So, what will happen when the party gains power?

The States shall have their rights returned to them. The Federal government will be cut by about 80%, and many departments shall be dismantled, including the IRS, the EPA, and the Department of Education. Income taxation, except on foreign entities doing business with the US, will be abolished. In its place, a consumption tax to be capped at 10% will be instituted.

i franly doubt that this will be implemented by any party going to power. Basically it would be counterproductive for a president (and the party that support him) to dismantle most of the central government, becouse that would reduce the party and the president powers.

Not to mention the pratical difficulties of implementing this, just to name a few, what happen to the tens thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of government workers, whose departments are dismantled? That would also be a huge political opposition, with many economic interests lobbying against this.

On the elimination of income taxation, would it be compatible with the USA budget, or would put it even more in the red? Considering the situation of the US pubblic debt any serious party should put a balanced budget as his priority, what's the position of that new party on this?

The illegals and their children shall be deported to their home countries, to include everyone made "legal" by the Obama Administration. The borders will be protected with terminal force.

agreed on the first part, on the second, just improve border control, and every illegals who tried to pass it is arrested, and jailed for a certain period (1 or 2 years maybe) with forced labor, and then sent back to his country. If most illegals that try to enter the USA are caught then most would stop to try to enter.

Everyone who has worked enough to make the credits required by the SSA will still receive Social Security when the retire, or are disabled. But everyone else shall have to find another method of funding their retirement.

mmm agreed on the fact that the USA social security (as with that of many developed countries) should be reformed, but i don't agree with this.

The Federal government shall have three legal powers, only. They are to provide for national defense, to engage in foreign policy, and to regulate interstate commerce. Every law in the federal code that exceeds these powers shall be abolished.

again whatever party gets to power will never implement this, every party has radical ideas of reformation at its start and when its part of the opposition, but when a party gets to power it rarely change the status quo.

Abortion shall be returned to the States for their consideration, and the States had better consider the Second Amendment when they attempt to restrict gun ownership.

Considering that as you said: "The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else." shouldn't this party line be in favor of abortion?

As Sallust, the Roman historian said, "Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for just masters."

on this i totally agree with Sallustius, what he said was and still is true.

[Oldgamer]

i franly doubt that this will be implemented by any party going to power. Basically it would be counterproductive for a president (and the party that support him) to dismantle most of the central government, becouse that would reduce the party and the president powers.

The whole purpose of the organization would be to dismantle most of the central government, and reduce its powers to simply those granted it by the Constitution.

Not to mention the pratical difficulties of implementing this, just to name a few, what happen to the tens thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of government workers, whose departments are dismantled? That would also be a huge political opposition, with many economic interests lobbying against this.

The "workers" you speak of would simply go out and do something truly productive, like getting a job in the private sector, thereby adding immeasurably to the nation's economic power.

On the elimination of income taxation, would it be compatible with the USA budget, or would put it even more in the red? Considering the situation of the US pubblic debt any serious party should put a balanced budget as his priority, what's the position of that new party on this?

Since the party doesn't exist, yet, it doesn't have a position on this. For myself, the US public debt would make it appear that the debt-holders (like China and Japan) would have the United States over the proverbial barrel, as it were. But it only seems so. I wonder how their economies would fare if the United States "forgave" itself on its national debt?

agreed on the first part, on the second, just improve border control, and every illegals who tried to pass it is arrested, and jailed for a certain period (1 or 2 years maybe) with forced labor, and then sent back to his country. If most illegals that try to enter the USA are caught then most would stop to try to enter.

Nothing in the world is so salutary against crime ... including entering a country illegally ... than to know that there's someone willing to stop them with gun control (defined as "a well-placed shot with a powerful firearm").

mmm agreed on the fact that the USA social security (as with that of many developed countries) should be reformed, but i don't agree with this.

again whatever party gets to power will never implement this, every party has radical ideas of reformation at its start and when its part of the opposition, but when a party gets to power it rarely change the status quo.

The party that emphasizes the admittedly radical ideas that I espouse, comes to power, and doesn't implement those ideas, will soon lose its power.

Considering that as you said: "The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else." shouldn't this party line be in favor of abortion?

Should liberty include the right to kill because a person is inconvenienced by the existence of someone else? It seems to me that the Declaration never mentioned a "right" to abortion as one of the reasons for declaring independence.

on this i totally agree with Sallustius, what he said was and still is true.

We witness the truth of it every day in America, since January 20, 2009 ...

[Tiwaz]

The whole purpose of the organization would be to dismantle most of the central government, and reduce its powers to simply those granted it by the Constitution.

And what makes you think it would work?

Why states would not devolve to squabbling competitors backstabbing each other without central government to maintain basic limits?

That is what USA is trying to do with EU right now, desperately trying to play states against one another to prevent emergence of unified EU.

The "workers" you speak of would simply go out and do something truly productive, like getting a job in the private sector, thereby adding immeasurably to the nation's economic power.

Where they could be enslaved by corporations without proper protections.

Since the party doesn't exist, yet, it doesn't have a position on this. For myself, the US public debt would make it appear that the debt-holders (like China and Japan) would have the United States over the proverbial barrel, as it were. But it only seems so. I wonder how their economies would fare if the United States "forgave" itself on its national debt?

Have you familiarized yourself with phrase "For every action, there is equal and opposite reaction."

What do you think would be reaction for action you suggest?
And how it would, and try to be HONEST here, affect USA long term?

Nothing in the world is so salutary against crime ... including entering a country illegally ... than to know that there's someone willing to stop them with gun control (defined as "a well-placed shot with a powerful firearm").

Guns swing both ways. At that point it becomes question of initiative. If criminal wants something and is planning to take it from armed "victim"... Why not shoot first and take what he wants?

Should liberty include the right to kill because a person is inconvenienced by the existence of someone else? It seems to me that the Declaration never mentioned a "right" to abortion as one of the reasons for declaring independence.

Did your beloved Declaration deny abortion?

If fetus cannot live outsider womb, tough luck fetus. Nobody kills it on purpose, it just lacks ability to live.

[MaximiIian]

hello oldgamer, nice to see you again

No, it's not. He's just rambling on about far-right crap, like Rorschach. Again.

[Barry Goldwater]

All of you gentlemen and the occasional lady will finally find out who I am, in about a year. I'm in the process of writing a book that will be one of the bases for the creation of a conservative ... if it can really be called "conservative" ... party in the United States, and I'll have to "come out of the closet (as it were).

I've met with people from all over the country, and the purpose of the new party will be to dethrone the One Party.

Don't believe that the Democrats and Republicans are merely two sides of the same corrupt coin?

Right now, David Frum is putting together a website called newmajority.com, in which they are soliciting "ideas" from "conservatives" all over America. However, listening to him speak on the Dennis Miller Show, this morning, it is obvious that the country-club Republicans have gained total power within that powerless party, and they seriously intend to do away with social conservatism as an element of the party. People are not abandoning the GOP ... the GOP is abandoning them.

The book I'm writing will expose what's going on in the GOP, and I spent almost all of the Fall Campaign in the company of the GOP Left, as I traveled about with the McCain Campaign, including Frum (who was the chief policy advisor to McCain ... and now, you know the rest of that story).

Since I only get back to the TWC about every two weeks, I will tell you exactly how radical a conservative can get ...

The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else. So, what will happen when the party gains power?

The States shall have their rights returned to them. The Federal government will be cut by about 80%, and many departments shall be dismantled, including the IRS, the EPA, and the Department of Education. Income taxation, except on foreign entities doing business with the US, will be abolished. In its place, a consumption tax to be capped at 10% will be instituted.

The illegals and their children shall be deported to their home countries, to include everyone made "legal" by the Obama Administration. The borders will be protected with terminal force.

Everyone who has worked enough to make the credits required by the SSA will still receive Social Security when the retire, or are disabled. But everyone else shall have to find another method of funding their retirement.

The Federal government shall have three legal powers, only. They are to provide for national defense, to engage in foreign policy, and to regulate interstate commerce. Every law in the federal code that exceeds these powers shall be abolished.

Abortion shall be returned to the States for their consideration, and the States had better consider the Second Amendment when they attempt to restrict gun ownership.

There are almost an infinite number of other ideas which can and will be implemented, but I suspect you get the idea.

As Sallust, the Roman historian said, "Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for just masters." I and the hundreds of people I've already talked to will not be ruled by any master.

As long as I'm here, today, I'll respond to anyone who posts. Otherwise, I'll come back in about two weeks.

Wow I find myself agreeing with you entirely - +rep for this epic post. If such a party were to come into being, I would register with it ASAP (well, when I become old enough to vote ) :

[RVFVS]

All of you gentlemen and the occasional lady will finally find out who I am, in about a year. I'm in the process of writing a book that will be one of the bases for the creation of a conservative ... if it can really be called "conservative" ... party in the United States, and I'll have to "come out of the closet (as it were).

I've met with people from all over the country, and the purpose of the new party will be to dethrone the One Party.

Don't believe that the Democrats and Republicans are merely two sides of the same corrupt coin?

Right now, David Frum is putting together a website called newmajority.com, in which they are soliciting "ideas" from "conservatives" all over America. However, listening to him speak on the Dennis Miller Show, this morning, it is obvious that the country-club Republicans have gained total power within that powerless party, and they seriously intend to do away with social conservatism as an element of the party. People are not abandoning the GOP ... the GOP is abandoning them.

The book I'm writing will expose what's going on in the GOP, and I spent almost all of the Fall Campaign in the company of the GOP Left, as I traveled about with the McCain Campaign, including Frum (who was the chief policy advisor to McCain ... and now, you know the rest of that story).

Since I only get back to the TWC about every two weeks, I will tell you exactly how radical a conservative can get ...

The new party will emphasize individual liberty as the chief cornerstone of everything else. So, what will happen when the party gains power?

The States shall have their rights returned to them. The Federal government will be cut by about 80%, and many departments shall be dismantled, including the IRS, the EPA, and the Department of Education. Income taxation, except on foreign entities doing business with the US, will be abolished. In its place, a consumption tax to be capped at 10% will be instituted.

The illegals and their children shall be deported to their home countries, to include everyone made "legal" by the Obama Administration. The borders will be protected with terminal force.

Everyone who has worked enough to make the credits required by the SSA will still receive Social Security when the retire, or are disabled. But everyone else shall have to find another method of funding their retirement.

The Federal government shall have three legal powers, only. They are to provide for national defense, to engage in foreign policy, and to regulate interstate commerce. Every law in the federal code that exceeds these powers shall be abolished.

Abortion shall be returned to the States for their consideration, and the States had better consider the Second Amendment when they attempt to restrict gun ownership.

There are almost an infinite number of other ideas which can and will be implemented, but I suspect you get the idea.

As Sallust, the Roman historian said, "Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for just masters." I and the hundreds of people I've already talked to will not be ruled by any master.

As long as I'm here, today, I'll respond to anyone who posts. Otherwise, I'll come back in about two weeks.

I look forward to your book intently! I agree with many of these ideals...in fact almost all of them

[wilting]

Fantasy.

[Helm]

So lets see, you would like to make your country free and more liberal by getting into power and telling people what they should do?

[Aetius]

So lets see, you would like to make your country free and more liberal by getting into power and telling people what they should do?

No.....

Getting in to power and not telling people what they should do.