How can middle-east modernize?
how can the middle easty modernize, like a country like lebanon or syria?
how?
how can they be on par with countries in the G8?
someone educated explain to me point by point what the flaws of this country is and the specific solutions to them
no super neo cons in this thread
Vicarius
Re: me needs an advisor
Adopting Christianity would be the first step.
Domesticus
Re: me needs an advisor
Eh, no.Originally Posted by Norge
This thread is a bit moot, as most Middle Eastern countries are modern, in a technological/economic sense of the word.
If you mean in terms of social liberty, setting off a rebellion of Muslim women should do the trick.
Tell that to Ireland's little economic miracle.secularism wouldnt contribute anything to modernizing a country
We threw off the Catholic Church (for the most part) and embraced science with business.
We came out of the third world to be the country with the second largest income per head in Europe in 10-15 years.
If we hadn't embraced a little secularist ideology, Ireland would still be a third world country.
Last edited by IrishHitman; February 10, 2009 at 09:13 AM.
Vicarius Provinciae
Re: me needs an advisor
The Phillipines and the Congo are poor as.
Anyway, it really beats me when people point to Europe as an example of success of Christianity.
"When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion." -- Robert Pirsig
"Feminists are silent when the bills arrive." -- Aetius
"Women have made a pact with the devil — in return for the promise of exquisite beauty, their window to this world of lavish male attention is woefully brief." -- Some Guy
Citizen
Re: me needs an advisor
Talk about being way off. The time Europe took Christianity seriously, it was called the Dark Ages. Christianity is rife with unrealistic and unscientific teachings that can't be applied in real life and have never been applied by any nation at any time. The minute European scientists regained knowledge of the sciences and the arts from the Arabs, they realized the falsities and inconsistencies in their religion and abandoned it for good.
Death be not proud, though some have called thee
Mighty and dreadful, for, thou art not so.
Campidoctor
Re: me needs an advisor
As is islam and all religion dont forget that
.........
Primicerius
Re: me needs an advisor
For one thing these regions are unstable and for progression you need complete stability, unfortunately Lebanon and Syria do have a hostile neighbor in Israel and Hostile governments towards Israel, it would help to try and heal these relations to prevent any 2006's and to gain a trading partner for technology and other products. Not to mention healing relations with Israel might propogate relations with the US which is a major exporter of good and technology. Another way, since Syria and Lebanon dont have the natural resources on the scale of the Saudi's would have to promote education of their populace above everything else. A very literate, educated populace provides technological advances and general quality of life. Next, I would cut corporate taxes to a very low level as well as taxes to promote advanced industry and industry that manufacture high quality items to neighbors. Its hard to imagine any nation becoming on the level of G8 power. But I would really just focus on producing an educated populace, generate scientists, doctors, physicits etcetera but unfortunately in the forseeable future it is unlikely that these nations would ever become rivals of G8.
sorry for the horrible grammar, Im feeling to lazy.
Dux Limitis
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
Oh, Sparrow's been banned.
Oh well. My opinion is that the Middle East will modernize when guys like this
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b18_1...6&c=1#comments
are allowed to express themselves without requiring armed guards to save them from brutal religious murderers.
Primicerius
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
Considering he is Shia, he has less to do with the Middle east, oh I dunno, considering these rest are Sunni Muslims.
Revolutionize Iran maybe, but the rest of the middle east? Not doing to happen unless there is another war between shia and sunni during the dying days of the Shia Caliph in Cairo.
Dux Limitis
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
wtf are you talking about?
a religious war = modernization?
Have a question about China? Get your answer here.
Dux Limitis
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
I am not saying 'when guys like this come to power' I am saying when guys like this can express themselves publically without fear of death the ME has a chance to modernize. Modenisation requires a free-flow of thought rather than a silencing of those with different opinions. I think this is crucial for the future of the ME.
It is something that many intellectual muslims have called for - secularism in the muslim world, a seperation of mosque and state (because let's face it, the power in those places that crushes new ideas or the ability for people to speak them is Islam).
Primicerius
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
Incorrect. There were many poets and experts, just look at Rumi or one of the other scholors, who were attached to some form of the mosque.
What is not needed is secularism, what is needed is greater education in being an imam, making it harders through tests and allowing the mosque as a gateway to free thinking that is within the boundries of Islam so that none of us fall into the wayside.
Dux Limitis
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
ya , modern science is totally born in mosques. Totally.
remember the imams whose bright ideas ignited the industrial revolution?
Have a question about China? Get your answer here.
Campidoctor
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
People like this keeps the middle east in general at a low level.
the economy could be fixed by attracting foreign investors tourism and other
.........
Praeses
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
Smartest muslim I've seen, ever.
I have approximate answers and possible beliefs, and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I’m not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don’t know anything about. But I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel frightened by not knowing.
- Richard Feynman's words. My atheism.
Senator
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
To be frank, I think it's a long way off. You really need a sustained period of stability and peace and international co-operation, and so long as the Palestinians go homeless and Israel refuses to make friends, the essential elements are there for conflict to continue. No-one wants to invest in a warzone.
The Red Menace
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
What is with all these people on the forums who are always trying to convert others? I respect Turkish Sultans arguments as well as everyone else on the forum, But both him and others are showing negative attitudes against people of other religions. Modernization can happen regardless of religion.
Bunnywabbita
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
No it cannot.
Religion, by nature, requires devotion and unquestioning loyalty to religion and it's dogma. Word of God is infallible and may not be doubted.
Such attitude on other hand is in firm conflict with concept of questioning which is foundation of science, which in turn leads to progress which leads to modernization.
In modern world, you just can't jump over need to question in order to make leaps in science like you may have been able in the past, when whole concept of science was far more rudimentary.
Today science and knowledge challenge the very foundations of religions. Asking nasty questions and poking at huge flaws of religious dogma.
If Islamic world were to "modernize" like Sultan here suggests... It would in short moments start banging it's head on borders built for it by Islam. It would no longer progress. Religion is like a cage, only way to progress beyond it is to break the cage.
Everyone is warhero, genius and millionaire in Internet, so don't be surprised that I'm not impressed.
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
QFT, but "we" should haver messed with them the last 5 decades and right now, so their need to seek for radical Islam would never been created. In many ways we took part in creating that cage.
Tiro
Re: How can middle-east modernize?
Perhaps the first thing would be a constitutional alteration. For example, Jordanian law involves a presumption of guilt, rather than of innocence (although Guantanamo seriously stretches the American claim to the latter). It has to start with the "small" stuff. Sexual equality will come later.
On a larger level, not necessarily secularization, but making violations of Islamic code less of a crime against the state and more of just a violation of familial law. More like Tunisia rather than Saudi Arabia, for example.
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