DHRR v0.8 Previews

**Nakharar** · May 14, 2009, 04:21 PM

amen this deserves more posts get a front page

**konny** · May 14, 2009, 05:49 PM

A few "hard facts" in addition for that preview (I had forgotten to make start screens, will add them later):

According to the historical situaition in 1080 the German factions in dHRR 0.8 will be splitted into two groups that are at war with each other:

The "Imperialists/Loyalists" under Heinrich IV:
Franconia
Lower Lorraine
Upper Lorraine
Swabia
Bohemia

The "Papals/Rebels" under Rudolf von Rheinfelden:
Saxony (Rudolf will be Saxon FL, but not Duke of Saxony at game start)
Burgundy
Bavaria
Austria
Milan

Several changes will be made to province ownership to refelct some special situations, like Bavaria reduced to Passau because the Margrave in Nürnberg and the Count of Tyrol sided with the King (Nürnberg will be Franconian, Tyrol Swabian).

Swabia will lose Zürich, this will be added to Brugundy because both, Berthold von Rheinfelden (Counter Duke of Swabia) as well as Berthold von Zähringen (another claimant to Swabia) will be Burgundian FMs. Burgundy will in return lose Lyon, because the rule of the Ivrea Counts of Brugundy did not reach that far.

Austria will be reduced to its two northern provinces. The status of Carinthia/Styria is still under testing, but it will most likely be rebel.

Various bishops that are usualy part of the faction that holds the respective city will be either rebel characters or members of hostile factions, because historicaly those either sided with the Pope or the King against their dukes.

Most characters will have a "Vita" trait that tells you something about them and might explain why he is appearing on this side on not on the one you would expect him. So, take your time to explore the world of dHRR.

Last but not least, because the war is already going on, you will have strong armies at your disposal to instantly start the fighting (and so will your opponents too, of course).

So, when you are looking for some action right from the first turn, the German factions might be your choice in dHRR 0.8.

**Kabudhan** · May 14, 2009, 11:39 PM

Mein Gott, dHRR .8 will be such an amazing mod.

**Nevada** · May 17, 2009, 11:29 AM

Wow, now that's going to be really interesting!

**wolfen_84** · May 17, 2009, 06:03 PM

Amazing, really! This is a really good mod! But, i have a question: if we will start with a civil war, many fatcions of hre risk to disappear in a few turns of campaign, how did you do to avoid this? Because i really liked the political balance between the factions in 0.7, and i think that a war at the beginnig could be "dangerous"...Have you improved diplomacy AI?

**konny** · May 18, 2009, 05:36 AM

The testings so far have not shown a significant "mass dieing" of German duchies. All start with strong armies, and in the auto-calc battles of the AI the loser is never completly destroyed, while also the winner suffers severe casualties. This makes it rather difficult for the AI factions to quickly destroy each other.

Also, the counter-king is already 50 years old, so the civil war will in general be limited to about 10 years in game. Depending on the turns per year, this would be 10 to 40 turns; not enough time to overrung all of Germany.

Playing as Saxony (Counter King) or Franconia (Emperor) the player will also have the opportunity to end the war in the first year by killing his opponent in battle - what actualy happend in fall 1080 to Rudolf von Rheinfelden.

**toluas** · May 18, 2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by konny

Playing as Saxony (Counter King) or Franconia (Emperor) the player will also have the opportunity to end the war in the first year by killing his opponent in battle - what actualy happend in fall 1080 to Rudolf von Rheinfelden.

Loosing his right hand - the one he had sworn fealty to his king with...

**wolfen_84** · May 18, 2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by konny

The testings so far have not shown a significant "mass dieing" of German duchies. All start with strong armies, and in the auto-calc battles of the AI the loser is never completly destroyed, while also the winner suffers severe casualties. This makes it rather difficult for the AI factions to quickly destroy each other.

Also, the counter-king is already 50 years old, so the civil war will in general be limited to about 10 years in game. Depending on the turns per year, this would be 10 to 40 turns; not enough time to overrung all of Germany.

Playing as Saxony (Counter King) or Franconia (Emperor) the player will also have the opportunity to end the war in the first year by killing his opponent in battle - what actualy happend in fall 1080 to Rudolf von Rheinfelden.

This sounds very good! Thank you for the infos! But when will you realease it?

**konny** · May 19, 2009, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by toluas

Loosing his right hand - the one he had sworn fealty to his king with...

that plus a sword through his groin - what had proofed to much for Medieval battlefield surgery.

Originally Posted by wolfen_84

This sounds very good! Thank you for the infos! But when will you realease it?

When it is finished...

What might still take some time because we are going to revise the other factions too.

**Parzival2211** · October 04, 2009, 08:34 PM

Hi, this sounds amazing. Looking forward to it! How's progress been since May?

Another question: What map are you using for the mod? Vanilla with added regions, or a more limited map?

**konny** · October 05, 2009, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by Parzival2211

Hi, this sounds amazing. Looking forward to it! How's progress been since May?

We are closing in the next public realese, the exact date will be determind by the ammount of additional content we will add in 0.8, and the ammount we delay for a possible addon (0.8a) or the next version (0.9).

Another question: What map are you using for the mod? Vanilla with added regions, or a more limited map?

This mod is already published as dHRR 0.7, check it out.

**Dimitri_Harkov** · October 05, 2009, 04:01 AM

A look at the mod's overview thread will answer your questions: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176848

**Parzival2211** · October 05, 2009, 09:10 PM

Read it, thanks. Sounds really good.

Later on, a more limited map (focussing on Germany) may be interesting as well, if you want to concentrate on inner-HRE conflicts. I'd definitely be keen on playing that as well.

**konny** · October 06, 2009, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Parzival2211

Later on, a more limited map (focussing on Germany) may be interesting as well, if you want to concentrate on inner-HRE conflicts.

Yes, definitly for the late periode (1300-1500). But this requires a major change of the entire mod, so will not happen in the near future.

**Keyser Soze** · November 08, 2009, 02:17 PM

a little off question. will dHRR 0.8 use the same map as 0.7?

**konny** · November 09, 2009, 09:04 AM

Yes

**Parzival2211** · October 05, 2009, 09:12 PM

Let me say one more thing: The amount of details in this mod that add to the ambiance and to historical realism are amazing. +rep

**konny** · June 08, 2009, 03:18 PM

Sancta Romana Ecclesia

In dHRR 0.7 it is possible to grant family members and priests with bishops’ titles. Because of the marriage issue, and because of the family tree usually not being large enough to have some family members deliberately unmarried, the important function of prince-bishops mostly went unused in game. Therefore we have changed this system a bit for dHRR 0.8:

Family members will no longer be able to acquire clerical titles. In return you will be able to recruit generals to make them bishops. The advantage would be that recruited general usually are always unmarried, that is unless they are adopted into family tree or forced to marry one of your princesses. Priests too can become bishops as usual. This also allowed simplifying the mechanism of appointment a little: Bishops will now no longer be appointed by clicking on the right character, but they are elected by the chapter, while the king (what would be you or the AI, which as usual doesn’t know anything about it) has the choice to give or give not them a fief.

When there is a vacant see in any of your dioceses, you would have a bishop elected by recruiting the kind of character you wish to be the next bishop. What is important is that bishops need to be worldwide unique. That is, different to worldly titles in dHRR 0.8, you cannot have a bishop elected when there is someone else of another faction out there already holding this title.

In this example we want to ‘make’ a new Patriarch of Grado in Venice. Because we don’t want to give him the laguna as a fiefdom we recruit a priest.

The next turn the priest has been recruited and he is already holding the title of a Patriarch of Grado; and because it had been rather lonely in the College of Cardinals, he has become a cardinal as well.

It also would have been possible to make him a prince-bishop. In this case you would have recruited a general.

The next turn he would have been recruited and would also hold the bishop’s title.

As prince-bishop he would have the same local bonus as the respective feudal lord in this province (+1 Defence, +5% Tax, +1 Law, 25% Discount on Recruitment). Other advantages of prince-bishops would be that they are usually very loyal, that they don’t have children and that way cannot bequeath their titles, and that they cannot accumulate several of these titles by inheritance. The downside would be that they cannot become cardinals, so not Pope, and even more that them holding the clerical titles prevent your priests from acquiring them and that way makes it harder for your priests to become cardinals. Needless to say that the Pope must not be happy that you using ‘his’ bishops to have your fiefdoms run and your army filled with knights…

Creating either a priest-bishop or a prince-bishop will be possible in all settlements that have a diocese, what will be the majority in dHRR 0.8. There are some in which you do not have a choice and where the local bishop will always be a general because he is fulfilling important worldly tasks. This would be, for example, in Durham, Köln, Mainz, Trier and Aquileia. In these towns the election of bishops is controlled by the script, and everyone the bishop dies a new one is spawned for the faction that holds the town.

Patrimonium Sancti Petri

The Papal States are run by the Curia of the Cardinals. But the cardinals in M2TW are those men: all priests and most of them even members of other factions. They cannot help the Pope in running his lands.

Therefore we have added additional cardinals by making the prince bishops of the Papal States members of the Curia. They are not treated as cardinals by the game; this means they cannot become Pope themselves. But they can hold the Curia offices.

Some of these offices can also be held by priests, so the true cardinals. This here, the Cardinal Dean of the College, can in fact only be held by a priest.

In summa the Pope can appoint these officers of the Curia:

Cancellarius Apostolicus (Chancellor)
Camerarius Domini Papae (Chamberlain)
Paenitentiarius Major (High Judge)
Decanus Sacri Collegii (Dean)
Praefectus Bibliotecae Apostolica (Librarian)

Additionally he can also appoint a Custodus for the Holy Land, provided Jerusalem is held by a Catholic faction.

The requirement for holding any of the above offices would be to hold a clerical title (i.e. be a bishop). But usually the Pope would not hold enough settlements to have dioceses for all these bishops needed. Well, he simply doesn’t have to: The Pope, and only him, can appoint bishops for cities he does not own!

It works this way: The Pope recruits a bishop or a priest.

Sends this man to a city where a diocese is vacant, regardless who holds this town.

And the next turn this character has acquired the local clerical title.

After that he would be eligible for a Curia Office.

The only requirement would be that the holder of the town in question has not appointed a bishop by himself. The Papal States acquiring a foreign bishop’s title that way also follows that the owner now can no longer appoint a bishop of his faction. This makes it more difficult for other factions to size control of the College of Cardinals and to have their own candidates be elected Pope.

You might have noticed on the above screenshots that the Papal States now start in the possession of Florence and Pisa. And that there is a Papal princess, even though this would be impossible because the Papal States do not have a family tree. The lady in question is her:

Matilda di Canossa, Marchesa di Toscana and Duchessa di Spoleto, one of the most faithful counsellors of Pope Gregory and “his best general”. Unfortunately we have so far not found a way to make her a general without allowing the name ‘Matilda’ as male name for the Papal States, and that way a possible name of a Pope. So for now, she is “his best diplomat”. You can marry Matilda to other factions’ heirs, but to do so you either have her talk with the faction question herself or have a foreign diplomat have to talk to her. It does not work on negotiations between diplomats and settlements or diplomats and diplomats.

Originally Matilda was intended to become Marescallus Militiae, the Papal Marshall. This office is of course not part of the Curia offices – even though Medieval bishops had no problem with using the mace in service of their lord (not a sword because they were not allowed to cause bloodshed by their hands). This office is now controlled by the script in the way that anytime the holder is missing a new one will be spawned for the Papal States.