The curious case of Vasko Gligorijevic

[Akrotatos]

It has been a few days since the night of 28th January 2009 where concordantly to his own testimony, The FYROM’s police came into Vasil Gligorov’s aka Vasko Gligorijevic apartment and arrested him purposedly because of his activist actions. While watching the aftermath of Vasko’s apparent arrest, i couldnt help from noticing how his own countrymen reacted to his plea for help. Normally someone would be deeply concerned for the physical safety of an individual calling desperately for help. In our case we had the exact opposite. The entirety of users coming from the state of FYROM displayed a powerful vested interest in demeaning and demonising him. In fact a few of them showed to harbor a feeling of intense hatred both for him personally and what he stands for.
This certainly reveals the general mentality which prevails nowadays in FYROM over their own countrymen that happen to think differently. Especially those, not necessarily buying the widely-imposed propaganda and decide not to stay silent. It seems also a safe conclusion that FYROM’s state has already taught its followers to discredit all the possible alternative sources of thought. Like Vasko’s case, not only they are being demonised but also discredited and casted as “enemies/traitors” of their country. This unhealthy tendency is familiar in such regimes. They say if you cannot attack the claim, attack the arguer instead. This dogma has found nowadays its safe shelter in FYROM where aggressiveness and demonisation of the opponent seems to be the safest way of protecting core identity myths from any open discussion that might challenge them. Usually a claim should be treated on its merit and should stand or fall solely by its own quality. In our case its entirely the opposite. Anything someone said against the widely imposed dogma – even statements of established fact– would be dismissed or ignored simply by attacking the source. Likewise Vasko has been portrayed as a paid agent, a liar, someone who doesnt…exist, a sick person and all those petty types of abuses to discredit the so-called “enemy”. I am certain this campaign of demonising the “enemy” will be culminated in the upcoming days as it usually happens.
If anyone like Vasko presents ideas or pieces of information that will dare to challenge the established dogmas, then according to his countrymen that person cannot be one of them. “You’re either with us or against us” seems to be the newest favourite motto in FYROM.


http://history-of-macedonia.com/word...-gligorijevic/

Granted, it comes form a Greek site and is biased but the story is true. It was mentioned in FYROM news as well.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Shocking.
________
PAXIL SETTLEMENT

[morteduzionism]

So this guy is a FYROMinian who is criticizing what? The argument of what to call the FYROM?

I'm a little unclear on what the issues are...

[Gromovnik]

So, what's this all about?

[Da Skinna]

Macedonia arrested a Greek, intense hatred for the Greek, due most in part of propaganda.

Am I right? And what the hell is FYROM?

[6th Vigil]

Am I right? And what the hell is FYROM?

Macedonia.

[MathiasOfAthens]

I think Vasil was a Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonian citizen not a Greek. Apparantly he questioned the state sponsored history of his nation, notably FYROM citizens are not related to ancient Macedonians but to the Serbians who conquered the balkans from the late Roman Empire.
________
UGGS

[morteduzionism]

I think Vasil was a Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonian citizen not a Greek. Apparantly he questioned the state sponsored history of his nation, notably FYROM citizens are not related to ancient Macedonians but to the Serbians who conquered the balkans from the late Roman Empire.

Ahhh...now it makes more sense...

Two questions:

1. What do the "Macedonians" living in Greece feel about the naming issue?

2. Who occupies the accepted geographical region of old "Macedonia?" The FYROM or the Greek Macedonians?

[MathiasOfAthens]

Ahhh...now it makes more sense...

Two questions:

1. What do the "Macedonians" living in Greece feel about the naming issue?

2. Who occupies the accepted geographical region of old "Macedonia?" The FYROM or the Greek Macedonians?

The second one is easy, Im going to answer that one first.

Old Macedonia at the time of Philip of Macedonia death.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The dark pink represents the royal territory of Macedonia, while the other colors are the obvious conquests by Philip and Alexander.

During the Roman Empire the Prefecture of Illyricum included modern day Greece, Albania, Serbia, Kosovo, FYROM, and Crete. Oddly it did not include Ancient Illyricum which was part of the the Prefecture of Italy.

At this time the borders of the Diocese of Macedonia, a sub unit of the Prefecture of Illyricum, included Modern day Serbia, FYROM, Albania and the region of Ancient Macedonia centered at Thessalonica.

Modern day Macedonia includes the northern portion of the Roman and the Byzantine Empire province of Macedonia.

Old Macedonia at the time of Philip is occupied by Greece. Macedonian province at the time of Basil II of the Eastern Roman Empire is split between Greece and FYROM.

By the FYROM is a provisional name for Republic of Macedonia so that the country could be admitted to the UN in 1993.


Greek feelings are prob mix, but im not an expert on that question.

[Kavhan Isbul]

Macedonian province at the time of Basil II of the Eastern Roman Empire is split between Greece and FYROM.

Not true, the thema during the reign of Basil II was not called Macedonia, but Bulgaria. Macedonia was the thema east of it, which would nowadays be split between Bulgaria and Greece. Here is a map below:

[Kavhan Isbul]

I read Vasil Gligorov's letter and in it he simply debunks some of the Macedonism myths and gives a truthful account of the ethnical origins of modern day Macedonians. In other words, he simply writes that the ancient Macedonains were Greeks, and that modern Macedonians are Slavs - a fact as simple as the round shape of the Earth, yet apparently stating it in Macedonia constitutes an anti-state conspiracy.
Then he continues his investigation to state that among all the Slavic elements in the Macedonian ethnicity, the Bulgarian was predominent - from the 9th century when these lands became part of the Bulgarian Empire to VMORO & VMRO in the early 20th century, which he correctly identifies as Bulgarian Nationalistic Organisations.
Gligorov's letter is neither Greek, nor Bulgarian propaganda, it is simply a truthful account of the creation of the Macedonian ethnicity, which did not really exist prior to 1944.
Most people in this thread will probably be quick to attack the Macedonian government and its state controlled media that it is unacceptable to have people persecuted and humiliated because of their interpretation of history. And those people would be right - the public outlash to which Vasil Gligorov is subjected is intolerable in the 21st century in a country, which is a candidate to join the EU.
However, I think this is only half the story, and it would be unfair to Mr. Gligorov to not focus on the more important issue here - there are Macedonians, who take an objective approach to their history and who are not ashamed of their roots. They might be a minority, as most historians in Macedonia are forced by the government to propagate the myths of Macedonism, but no government can supress the truth eternally and with time, we will see more people like Mr. Gligorov, who openly accept the true history of Macedonia and its people. Finally, within the next few decades, the myths and lies of Macedonism will be abandoned, and hopefully Macedonia will be able to join the EU and prosper in a new age of friendly relations witha ll of its neighbors.
People like Vasil Gligorov make me an optimist.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Thanks for the translation Kavhan, did it say anything about why he may have been arrested, what the charge was.
________
HOT BOX VAPORIZER

[Kavhan Isbul]

Thanks for the translation Kavhan, did it say anything about why he may have been arrested, what the charge was.

Not a problem - Macedonian isn't that hard for someone who can read Bulgarian, you see.
The letter is simply a letter from Vasil Gligorov, signed by him and certified by a notary, in which he certifies that based on his academic knowledge and his common sense, he believes in the following truths, which I summarized above. It is dated Nov-23 2007.
According to the blog, he was arrested, but I am not quite sure on what charges. Apparently in Macedonia if you have an opinion, which differs from the government-sanctioned books, you could end up in jail and be accused of treason. It appears that the methods of the fathers of Macedonism - Stalin, Tito and Dimitrov, are not forgotten.
Pathetic reprisal like this signifies one thing - it is all falling apart and truth will triumph soon.

[MathiasOfAthens]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...mpire_1045.svg

Your right about that sorry mate, Bulgarian province of Basil II disincluded modern day greece. Looks like it includes FYROM, Serbia, and Kosovo.

Im not sure what I was looking at earlier but I think think I was talking about the borders of 395 AD, but they obvious changed around 600.
________
How to download starcraft 2 replays