Best castle on the map

**delra** · February 05, 2009, 11:24 PM

I'm a little sentimental (and terribly bored) lately, played Apache in Kingdoms for a while, now playing old Byzantine for a while as well.

So here's a pic from my Byzantine run. After a quick blitz in Turkey I turned my greedy eyes at Hungary who were somehow weakened after they messed with Poles and Germans at once.

Turn 50, I take Szekesfehervar in an epic battle where they lose their king and prince (which kind of sucks for them) and... I find 17000 population inside (!!!) so can construct a Citadel right away.

Turns out their 8-Chivalry king was sitting in there (it's their capital after all) for the whole 50 turns and with growth bonus he made insane progress in improving the castle.

And in case you wondered, there's a Horsebreeders Guild (aka "yeah baby, I'll show you my cataphracts") inside too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

By the way, don't you think AI gets too much of growth bonus? I hardly grew Sofia into a castle in the meantime and my Emperor has like 5 Chivalry... Also, isn't it ironic Hungarians haven't even built basic farming in there?

Now a contest, get till turn 50 in your early campaign and show us your best castle.

**magraev** · February 06, 2009, 01:21 AM

heh nice castle (apart from the name). I believe it's one of the best on the map. I once traded venices eastern province (Kaffa) and another castle I conquered over there for it and an alliance with hungary. They must have moved their capital before that I recon.

Best castle for me that whole campaign and it did eventually become a fortress for me too.

**88Grin** · February 06, 2009, 01:31 AM

Hmm, most campaigns I play are with one of the northern factions so Hamburg usually ends up being my 'most active' castle. Hundreds of thousands of troops have died trying to take it so far, most of them German. Heheh

**Bacon!** · February 06, 2009, 03:29 AM

I got exactlly the same thing in my HRE campaign Delra. I was a fortress at the time around turn 60 with a light garrison so i invade while i can and 10 turns later ive got a citadel becase it had a rediculously high pop

. Im not sure if its the castle thats good or just the fact that the hungarian faction leader spends his whole life in there every game to give it such a high pop, i tend to find Toledo becoming quite good in my games

**Musthavename** · February 06, 2009, 03:56 AM

Yes, I belive the AI get's some sort of growth bonus.

In an English campaign, Nottingham, Caen & Winchester are all castles 50 turns in, Nottingham has a governer and is pretty close.

I invade France. I then discover that Antwerp, Metz, Lyon, Toulouse & Angers are all either at or very close to Fortress level... and that's AFTER i've sacked them. Took Bern & that other castle north of it (is it Staufen or Salzburg?), so now i've got an impenetrable ring of fortresses, thanks to the AI

**ginger_hammer** · February 06, 2009, 05:43 AM

It does take some of the enjoyment out of it in my opinion. When I'm carefully building my castles, seeing what new troops I can build then next door a poorly defended citadel pops up that you easily take then you can build all troops instantly.
I think the AI pop bonus should be brought down a bit so it is more in line with the players, as it would encourage the player to continue campaigns longer. Does the AI also get a bonus on building times? As their settlements seem chock-a-block with buildings, compared to mine which I've been building every turn.

**Gogolometro** · February 06, 2009, 06:00 AM

Same happend in a HRE campaign, same citatel of Hungarians.Maybe they love to keep leaders and heirs isolated from byzzies.

**Lysimachus** · February 06, 2009, 06:08 AM

I thought Alamut was the best castle on the map.

**delra** · February 06, 2009, 08:14 AM

Szekesfehervar has basic growth only 1% and Hungarians haven't even bothered to build basic farming there. It's all their awesome leader and their unfair AI growth bonus. Poles probably could pull something similar off (very chivalrous king as well) but they don't have a decent castle to do that with.

By the way Alamut is nice too, but it takes AI around ... 50 turns before they take it. Szekesfehervar is a Fortress and has population for a Citadel in the meantime.

If I was to look for a contestant, I'd bet more on Palermo in this regard, starting Norman King has 3 or 4 Chivalry and Palermo itself has basic 1,5% growth contrary to usual 1%. My observation is that it's Palermo who's the second Fortress on the map.

Other cool castles like Toulouse, Hamburg, Nottingham, Alamut and Toledo can join that elite club a while after that (10-15 turns). That's quite a headstart.

By the way as Egypt, Turks and Templars I usually convert Edessa to a castle. It's inland so no big loss cash-wise, it's well positioned to shield the whole Holy Land from intrusion from the East (Mongols!!) and North and it has basic farming production (production before you build anything) which is 2,5%. Probably the best non-castle on the map that should become a castle. Damascus may serve a similar role too but positioning isn't that good as Edessa's.

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · February 06, 2009, 08:48 AM

delra.....

Edessa to Castle. That notion is Gold. +Rep

On my wishlist is the Castle NE of Kiev with the grain resource. That's usually where the Cuman onslaught starts. But life in the Steppes is not easy my friends. Dirt poor and NO population....

...

**Bacon!** · February 06, 2009, 01:11 PM

I second that Tortas, playing as Kiev i find it nearly impossible to get a good castle let alone a fortress

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · February 06, 2009, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Bacon!

I second that Tortas, playing as Kiev i find it nearly impossible to get a good castle let alone a fortress

Sticking a Good FM/General in"That castle helps. But you've still got to beat Back the Cuman and If you haven't Allied with your Orthodox Brothers you'll probably have to deal with them as well....

To me playing Kiev from the Beginning is an exercise in praying nobody notices you've put together a 9 province spread and ain't got a nickel to develop it. And that's with a military of only 1.5 stacks...Mumma Mia...

**LionQ** · February 08, 2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by delra

... By the way as Egypt, Turks and Templars I usually convert Edessa to a castle. It's inland so no big loss cash-wise, it's well positioned to shield the whole Holy Land from intrusion from the East (Mongols!!) and North and it has basic farming production (production before you build anything) which is 2,5%. Probably the best non-castle on the map that should become a castle. Damascus may serve a similar role too but positioning isn't that good as Edessa's.

I wouldn't do this. When playing an eastern faction, I usually choose the Turks, with whom I always aim for Bagdad really early in order to spam Dismounted Hasham from Caesarea. As a result, I end up conquering Mosul as well, and together with Diyarbakir they shield the Holy Land ánd Mesopotamia from any eastern threats. This way, I can leave Edessa a city and for an inland one, it produces a nice amount income as well as growing pretty fast.

**gracul** · February 06, 2009, 08:42 AM

In 6.1 the AI doesn't get any growth bonuses(maybe there is a hardcoded mtw2 bonus but i don't know of any), whats more since the AI will switch to very high taxation right away (whenever the public order is beyond 125% on normal, even if that means in SS that they are going to have 75% public order or smth near that) they are actually handicapped in growth.

In 6.2 rc4 it takes the AI like 15 turns on early era to conquare most of the provinces on the map.

**delra** · February 06, 2009, 01:21 PM

Out of all the starting castles it's Smolensk who rules the whole area of Russia. Make sure your most chivalrous guy sits in there all the time. 75 turns and there should be a pretty good fortress there.

If you are willing to sacrifice a city, you can create yourself a good castle in the west for example from Mensk or Polotsk (both 2% basic growth)...

**delra** · February 06, 2009, 02:22 PM

Indeed. Kiev is always quite a ride. Especially late in the game when Hungarians, Poles, Byzantines and Novgorodians all have kickass very heavy cavalry and you're stuck with a bunch of lightly armoured

s who can hardly kill a unit of archers.

This is actually my main grudge with Kiev, I'm a cavalry guy and Kiev is not a cavalry faction at all.

**Mega Tortas de Bodemloze** · February 06, 2009, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by delra

Indeed. Kiev is always quite a ride. Especially late in the game when Hungarians, Poles, Byzantines and Novgorodians all have kickass very heavy cavalry and you're stuck with a bunch of lightly armoured

s who can hardly kill a unit of archers.

This is actually my main grudge with Kiev, I'm a cavalry guy and Kiev is not a cavalry faction at all.

Improvize Honored One. Stack your FM's and mix with the Hvy Cav. Not my place to talk though since I've never gotton a campaign past 1280 ...

Remeber..."He who defends everything, Defends nothing"

**Heathen Hammer** · February 06, 2009, 10:15 PM

As Germany I don't have to worry, as long as I don't put in generals with a "rebel!" trait in my castle.
The real challenge are Templars with lack of funds and population while being surrounded with hostile factions.

**penquin11** · February 08, 2009, 11:30 AM

volh i have to agree being the Templars is extremely hard, cause u have to worry about the turks, the eygptians, the kwarezmians, accasionally the cumans even, and the moors always will be blockading ur ports....not to mention that the eygptians always get merchants on all of ur spices and stuff......