Injured man dies after rejection by 14 hospitals

[morteduzionism]

Story

It was the latest in a string of recent cases in Japan in which patients were denied treatment, underscoring the country's health care woes that include a shortage of doctors...In the worst case, a woman in her 70s with a breathing problem was rejected 49 times in Tokyo.

First, not being a lawyer I can't say with absolute certainty but...I don't think an Emergency Room is legally allowed to refuse anyone in the US or Canada.

Second, I've seen implications of this in some anime/manga...I've always dismissed it as...unrealistic/just-for-manga...whodathunkit?

Third, this is just messed up. I mean...wow!

Fourth, it's stories like this that, for me, brings into focus the benifits of being and living in America...

[MathiasOfAthens]

How can hospitals refuse service for someone whose injured`? Surely they could have found someone to stabilize him.
________
Lovely Wendie

[morteduzionism]

How can hospitals refuse service for someone whose injured`? Surely they could have found someone to stabilize him.

The better question is what kind of society even allows this.

How would one feel as a citizen that you could be literally left to die...because...

If there was even the slightest fear of legal repercussions I don't think an ER would even risk a denial. This implies that the state approves of the practice of refusing services.

What effect does that have on the citizens?

[Mikelus Trento]

The better question is what kind of society even allows this.

One that is very greedy and onewith a "me first" attitude.

The one you and I are both a part of.

[morteduzionism]

One that is very greedy and onewith a "me first" attitude.

The one you and I are both a part of.

I'd have to disagree with that...

A true "greedy...me first" society wouldn't refuse people.

They'd give them treatment then committ insurance fraud...

Moe money...moe money...moe money...lol

This sounds like something that should happen in India with its caste system...the place where they set little girls on fire for no other reason than being in a different caste.

[Mikelus Trento]

I admittedly didn't read the story, but if the man had medical insurance I doubt he would have been turned away.

[Scar Face]

One that is very greedy and onewith a "me first" attitude.

The one you and I are both a part of.

This happened in Japan. So thats the first thing blatantly wrong with your post. The second thing that is wrong, is that Japan didn't deny him cause they're too lazy to look after him, cause he won't provide them with enough money, or whatever. They denied him because they literally could not accept him. They didn't have enough room, they didn't have the required equipment, the doctors, or the expertise. Accepting him would of basically been saying "Yes, the man can die in the comfort of one of our waiting areas". Japan is suffering a medical crisis, and your interpretation of it is blatantly off course.

Now if this was America and the man had been denied because he couldn't pay funds, then you have a case for your attitude. This did not happen, and I don't think that it has or will in the near future either.

Edit: And for anyone making a case for pubic healthcare: it has its drawbacks as well, namely the lack of proper funding to the hospital or competitive salaries for the professionals, which means [as in the case of japan] a lack of staff, equipment, and expertise. In Canada's case, they've all gone south. This means that one could- oh I don't know, lose a finger, and be waiting for an hour without attendance. Perhaps two? Three? Four? Maybe you have liquid building up around your heart for an inexplicable reason, that makes it hard and extremely painful to breath, and could potentially kill you. They will get you when they get to you.

Psst, happened to people I know!

There are flaws to a public or private system. Both very drastic.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

The better question is what kind of society even allows this.

England for one. My grandmother had a cancer relapse and the English medical care system said they would dope her up to keep her out of pain, but they wouldn't do anything for the cancer. And yes, England has socialized medicine.

[morteduzionism]

England for one. My grandmother had a cancer relapse and the English medical care system said they would dope her up to keep her out of pain, but they wouldn't do anything for the cancer. And yes, England has socialized medicine.

People are routinely refused emergency room treatment in England? The state allows this?

Just for clarification, is it that the hospital wouldn't or couldn't do anything for her? Is it one of those inoperable cancers?

Finally, I don't think these two situations are very similar. Maybe they both highlight the cons of socialized medicine but that's where the similarities end, IMO.

Based on the article it's Japan's S.O.P to deny services to people (under certain circumstances). Hospitals can't be punished.

I could see a lot of private insurance companies balking at the prospects of having to spend more money for someone in your grandmother's condition.

Denying her assistance after a car accident? England would do that?

Its not about insurance or mismanaged services, its about socialism as GED pointed out. This will soon happen in the NHS in the UK as well.

I'm sorry...maybe it's because I didn't drink the kool-aid this morning but...please explain how socialism is totally to blame here?

IMO, I think Wild Bill is closer to the crux of the issue than any of us.

I find it hard to believe that a socio-economic system could...convince people it's ok to deny a pregnant woman or an accident victim medical assistance.

IMO, the fact that the state allows this shows that it's...culturally acceptable.

[♔Jean-Luc Picard♔]

People are routinely refused emergency room treatment in England? The state allows this?

Just for clarification, is it that the hospital wouldn't or couldn't do anything for her? Is it one of those inoperable cancers?

Wouldn't. Breast cancer was able to be operated on, even back then. It wasn't nearly as effective as today, but it could still work. They refused her treatment due to her age and the fact it was a relapse.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Ah the benefits of socialized medicine....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Japan

National health expenditures rose from about 1 trillion Yen in 1965 to nearly 20 trillion Yen in 1989, or from slightly more than 5% to more than 6% of Japan's national income. The system has been troubled with excessive paperwork, assembly-line care for out-patients (because few facilities made appointments), over medication, and abuse of the system because of low out-of-pocket costs to patients.[citation needed] Another problem is an uneven distribution of health personnel, with rural areas favored over cities.[2]

[Roths]

n00bs.

[Da Skinna]

Another problem is an uneven distribution of health personnel, with rural areas favored over cities.[2]

Wha?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Wha?

Rural areas typically have a larger say when it comes to electing officials in Japan. Hence those areas receive better health care. Japan also has this old tradition of giving doctors cash under the table to ensure the best possible treatment. It is "illegal" but happens all the time.

[Denny Crane!]

Its not about insurance or mismanaged services, its about socialism as GED pointed out. This will soon happen in the NHS in the UK as well.

The medical reality in Japan seems stranger than fiction. We often hear horror stories of pregnant mothers not finding a hospital to deliver a child, dying in transit, delivering their babies in ambulances or at home unassisted by paramedics. Most of these stories belong to hospitals in Tokyo, a metropolis that is the hub of both political and medical activities in Japan. We can rightly guess the inhospitable conditions in suburban areas or remote islands. There are regions where there are no doctors. The emergency cases from such regions have to be taken to far-flung places for treatment. The dearth of obstetricians is so acute that in the three-year period, from 2004 to 2006, there have been 2939 cases of pregnant women who were refused admittance to one or more hospitals in Japan.

[Viking Prince]

We do not know from this story whether emergancy rooms can refuse care to injured who show up. In this example, the patient never showed up at the emergancy rooms to be refused service.

It seems the procedure was to sit at the accident and call around. No mention was made as to how long the wait for a clearance to head to a hospital was made.

It is also not clear whether this delay is why the patient died or if it was due to the injuries.

The man, whose bicycle collided with a motorcycle in the western city of Itami, waited at the scene in an ambulance because the hospitals said they could not accept him, citing a lack of specialists, equipment, beds and staff, according to Mitsuhisa Ikemoto. One of the 14 finally admitted the man when the paramedics called it for a second time.

[Mithie]

Let me tell you what the real problem is with Japan's medical system. It's not a lack of doctors or equipment, it's just piss poor management and a complete lack of centralization. There's no central network to link the different hospitals in Japan together and no overreaching communication system between experts and personell in these hospitals.

Now, ask anyone in the medical profession and they'll tell you that as far as cities go, London, Hong Kong, and New York City have probably the best networking between their hospitals; Tokyo, however, is probably unanimously lauded as the worst.

One ER in Tokyo might receive a burn victim but have no experts/equipment to treat him (but have an abundant supply of respiratory and resuscitation equipment), and thanks to the complete lack of communication with an overreaching network, they'd have no clue which ER room to transfer him to. So what they end up doing is shoving the guy out the door and tell him to try the next one, and see how lucky he gets.

Not every hospital in Tokyo has a maternity ward. Not every hospital in Tokyo has a chem unit, or even a burn ward. Equipment and personell are transferred between hospitals all the time, so Hospital A's maternity ward today might be gone tomorrow and Hospital B ends up with more materinity experts than it needs, but none of this information is available to the public.

So if you desperately need emergency medical care in Japan, good luck, and a prayer might be more effective than any medical insurance you might have.

[morteduzionism]

Let me tell you what the real problem is with Japan's medical system. It's not a lack of doctors or equipment, it's just piss poor management and a complete lack of centralization.

Scratch one city off of my "Places to go..." list...:hmmm:

We do not know from this story whether emergancy rooms can refuse care to injured who show up. In this example, the patient never showed up at the emergancy rooms to be refused service.

umm...is there a difference? They either tell you don't come or don't help you if you do... I suppose it'd be a little more black hearted to deny someone in their face...lol

It seems the procedure was to sit at the accident and call around. No mention was made as to how long the wait for a clearance to head to a hospital was made.

At least long enough to call 14+ hospitals (since one admitted him on the second call)...

It is also not clear whether this delay is why the patient died or if it was due to the injuries.

whatchutalkinboutwillis!?

You know that people are regularly turned away from hospitals in the US too right? Sure their homeless people but its still a disgusting practice. There are terrible videos of homeless people wandering the streets with nothing but a hospital gown on and an IV still in their arm. Even if they have the beds and equipment to save your life they'll still kick you out if you dont have the money.

That means they received treatment. It is possible that they [homeless] weren't actually in need of medical treatment but were looking for a hot meal and a bed...

If you see that as the same as having patients wait at the scene while an EMT calls around for a hospital...

[jsktrogdor]

You know that people are regularly turned away from hospitals in the US too right? Sure their homeless people but its still a disgusting practice. There are terrible videos of homeless people wandering the streets with nothing but a hospital gown on and an IV still in their arm. Even if they have the beds and equipment to save your life they'll still kick you out if you dont have the money.

[bthizle1]

Fourth, it's stories like this that, for me, brings into focus the benifits of being and living in America...

ER's can't refuse you, but EVERY other form of medical treatment can and will if you don't have insurance or a guaranteed way of paying. I know this from first hand experience and have known many people that have been refused medical services because they cannot afford them. Health services should be guaranteed to all, or we should stop making the claim that we even strive for true equality here in the states.