Trade

[Viking Prince Olaf]

I think we all know that Trade is A big part of A campaign right?
I hope i'm right... To initially start trade is hard in medieval 2 TOTAL WAR as the name of the game pretty much explains.....

A first priority for me is to properly garrison my cities by turn 3, next upgrade them to top technoligy, then get average militia (in terms of city as i'm refering to many factions that start out with 1 large town) that can stand up to many starting rebel and faction armies to expand my empire A couple of settlements for more towns and 1 castle to start my small military, finally I worry about my income and turn to trade.

See, after all this I can honostly say trade is A BASIC foundation of any empire but really, if you did these steps backwards how do you think it would end? So it's A safe debate on wether this is worthy of A thread as
it is important and we havn't discussed this in A LONG time.

thanks VPO

[Conquistatore]

Success in trade.

roads + markets + ports + port upgrades + merchants + armies/ships to protect roads and lanes = Massive trading empire. The formula for success that you can't get wrong.

[Landtuber]

Try to make sure you train all your merchants in one city as well, so you will get the various Merchant Guild upgrades there. Also, build schools/universities so your merchants get various extra finance ratings. Helps a lot.

[Viking Prince]

A key to establising early gains to trade is to balance your military vs. economic builds. The town based factions such as Milan need both economic and military in the cities. Factions such as France have it easier. Upgrade town barracks, townhalls, etc. as needed to maintain stability and to keep free upkeep garrisons, but otherwise the priority is on the economic. Ports are always useful to both expand trade and to favor trade partners. The same with trade agreements.

I have never enjoyed using and developing merchant trading so I am eager to hear from others to expand on this part of the topic. It has always seemed to be an inefficient use of resources in the early game. By the end of a campaign, it is just too much additional detail to bother with.

[Theseus1234]

farming will initially obtain more money than trade will, but as your empire grows and you have more trade agreements, provinces in north italy, southern france, and similar placed will be trading MACHINES

[Conquistatore]

Merchant trade gives you some of the most lucrative florins you will ever earn. Depending on where you position your merchant and what resource you are trading, you could be earning upwards of 1000 florins per turn, FROM ONE MERCHANT ALONE.

The key to getting those cold hard florins is to send your merchants to far off lands to acquire rare and extremely valuable resources.

Some good spots that have valuable/rare resources are:

South of Timbuktu in Africa (Ivory, Slaves, Gold)
Around Antioch in the holy lands (Spices, Sugar, Incense)
Near Constantinople in Asia Minor (Silk)
South of Cairo (Ivory, Slaves)

And of course, when America appears, you must swarm your merchants over there as America has the most valuable resources in the game, including tobacco, chocolate and a few others.

Merchant trade IS A MUST if you want to develop your trading empire to it's full potential!

[Viking Prince]

Not to be a downer on this -- well I guess I am.

How many turns to migrate and build up the values of the merchant before making the 1000 fl per turn? Also, how many turns does this continue? How many sites will be this productive? What about other higher level merchants "acquiring" the merchant?

These are some of the reasons why merchants do not seem worth the while. The only faction that I have enjoyed playing the merchant game is with Byzantium. I have used merchants with the Danes also since they can be trained without very much intervention in Scandinavia. One good merchant staying can deal with the occasional (and very rare) drop off by ship. I guess the same exclusive training can take place with any power once large enough (British Isles, Iberia, Timbuktu, etc.). The problem is that this is when the bookkeeping mounts with 30 regions, several siege/field armies needing refit, etc. Not to mention building spy and assassin experience.

[Conquistatore]

The thing with merchants is that like priests they are very easy to train. The trek to the valuable resources depends on what faction you are playing. For the shortest/most efficient trek, play a central faction and use ships to cart your merchants around quickly. The valuable areas I mentioned previously are usually deserted, in my experience at least. The only places I tend to run into other merchants is near Constantinople and south of Cairo. The other spots seems to be devoid of enemy merchants.

It can take quite a few years to develop your merchant to a level that he will be earning 1k or more, but once they are at this level they will hardly ever be acquired so you are basically guaranteed those florins every turn.

It seems like a long and expensive investment but trust me, it is VERY much worth it. Like anything in life, you only get out what you put in.

[Viking Prince]

So who here uses assassins to take out successful merchants? Not that I do it as a matter of chivalrous role playing. But once as an experiment with Vence (I think) I cleaned out any agent except priests that ventured onto the controlled regions. Was a bit boring and have not used assasination much since.

[Conquistatore]

I have used an assassin the odd once or twice. I find it better for your merchant if he attempts to acquire the other merchant, rather than having him assassinated. To be honest I don't use assassins most of the time, it is quite a lengthy and tedious process cycling through the different ranks and attempting missions every turn. I prefer spies, as you can set them to watch somewhere and just leave them.

[Viking Prince Olaf]

One of my early experiments A couple years ago when I started...I guess I was...9-10, but anyway, it was to make A cross-European highway.
It worked when I used Denmark and took over North Africa to Poland and everything West, but it worked, land trade combined with farming alone was I think over 150k

Sea trade I think can make up to 2/3 of all trade in A settlement, major producing cities you will find border the sea. (except for Vienna...)
Black sea trade is very important to me if i'm playing any Middle eastern,
Western European, and Orthodox factions as it can be as good as Baltic trade.

Merchants are only trading pawns you hire to do your bidding...Viking Prince, I know how you love historical accuracy, go historical, play as A
Western European faction and make A holy land colony hiring merchents left and right or bring them over to get on silk or spices as I'v never tested this theory but I believe that its worth more if your A European than Middle Eastern faction.

[claudius2007]

I agree with Viking Prince. Merchants are only worth it if you have access to isolated resources and a pretty high market infrastructure. On the other hand at that point your military budget will be somewhere around 30000/turn so you dont really care about an additional 1000 a merchant can earn you. On the contrary you are probably going to recruit a new unit of those Templar Knights that just appeared trainable for your new stack. (yes, yes... evil grin)
Similarly, priests are only worth it after you build Abbey (they come out with 3-4 piety and one more level will earn them cardinal status if you are in good terms with the Papacy) UNLESS you are having serious socio-religious problems in occupied provincies, or are neighboring an Islamic faction.

[tuore]

I agree. Try to get the monopoly trait (control every resource of one type in a region for 10 turns, and you'll get it. For example, if there are two wine resources in the region of Bordeaux, then send a merchant to both of them, and make sure that nobody buys them away for 10 turns. Then both of them will get the trait.)

[Viking Prince Olaf]

I agree. Try to get the monopoly trait (control every resource of one type in a region for 10 turns, and you'll get it. For example, if there are two wine resources in the region of Bordeaux, then send a merchant to both of them, and make sure that nobody buys them away for 10 turns. Then both of them will get the trait.)

Yes but this is A big deal as 10 turns in military turms can mean the
difference between capturing France itself....Once you do get this i'm curious to see what resource you put him on.

So yes trade agreements are pretty much the only way you will get serious trade income as even after all this how long and how old is/can
he go on making that income....it's just too much of an investment.

[tuore]

Yes but this is A big deal as 10 turns in military turms can mean the
difference between capturing France itself....Once you do get this i'm curious to see what resource you put him on.

So yes trade agreements are pretty much the only way you will get serious trade income as even after all this how long and how old is/can
he go on making that income....it's just too much of an investment.

I didn't talk about having the merchants on foreign territory, just put them on your own region's resources, and when they get the monopolist trait, they get +3 or +4 finance.

[Ric_English]

A: you can take out France in 10 turns?
B: it seems like(if you play England as i do) the only settlements worth taking are the coastal ones. except for Paris and the one next to it. but i usually leave France in tact as a shield against the Milanese trade fueled juggernaut. Denmark and Frances coastal settlements make for an awesome trade empire.

[Viking Prince Olaf]

A: you can take out France in 10 turns?

Most anybody can if you simply think ahead and decide preperations,
landing zones, and routes.

I've found Black sea trade awesome as its good income and theres no way in if you anchor A fleet near Constantinople so you don't have to worry about pirates or sea blockades.

[robbo]

Building grain exchanges, roads and ports is fairly obvious. Which line of buildings to pursue first isn't always so clear.

Remember to check the trade details before building any type of economic building. If the city is bringing in more cash via land than sea, then build markets and roads. If more income is coming via sea then build ports. Before building mines, right click on the mines in the construction queue to find out how much income they will add. Income from mines can vary greatly so its important to check this before building them. The same can be said for farms. It might not be worth building any at all in a place where there is constantly a low harvest. However if you're consistently getting excellent harvests then they can add a great amount of money, particularly in the early stages of the game.

You can also gain a good idea about trade before capturing a city. Take a look at the resources in the region. More resources means more things to trade. If you see silver or gold then there's a good chance that mining will bring in a healthy amount of money. I'm not certain whether it works on areas you don't control but right-clicking farms on the campaign map will tell you how fertile the region is.

The important thing to remember is that every city is different. Don't fall into the trap of focusing on one type of income if it may not necessarily be the best option available in that region.

[Conquistatore]

Well said robbo and I agree with all your points. Especially the mining one. There is no sense in building a mine and then upgrading it later for a couple thousands florings if it's only going to bring in 100-200 florins per turn. Your money could be better spent on other improvements or training some military.

[Viking Prince]

So what about the Lisbon tin mines for Portugal? They pay 440fl for the first level at a cost of 2000fl which is key to success for Portugal to get started. The second level pays 770fl at an additional cost of 3500fl. This is a marginal cost of 3500 for a marginal increase in pay of 330fl. Only a bit worse than 2000 to pay 200fl which is my usual standard -- ten turn to breakeven. It fails but is close to a second build.

Anybody pay to build the second level mines for any faction?