What conditions are needed to get an alliance?

[kosmosje1]

I wondered what could prevent the 'Alliance' option in the diplomacy thread? I had completely owned the Norwegians in my campaign and I want them to cover my back...

[Gnostiko]

Actually I too am curious as to what's going on - I thought it was fairly obvious until I stumbled across a similar situation; as the Romans the Polish are allied with all my allies and at war with all my enemies, but I have no option to ask for an alliance, checked and doubled checked, they have no allies I'm at war with and vice versa. Relations are on poor.

[ginger_hammer]

If you are at war with a faction you can't form an alliance (have to cease fire first).

If you are at war with a faction's ally you can't form an alliance with them.

If a faction is at war with your ally you can't form an alliance with them.

Gnostiko - I don't think relations effect whether you can get an alliance on not, sounds strange alright, are you sure that the polish aren't allied with any of your enemies or at war with any of your allies?

[Cleitanious]

If you are at war with a faction you can't form an alliance (have to cease fire first).

If you are at war with a faction's ally you can't form an alliance with them.

If a faction is at war with your ally you can't form an alliance with them.

Gnostiko - I don't think relations effect whether you can get an alliance on not, sounds strange alright, are you sure that the polish aren't allied with any of your enemies or at war with any of your allies?

That's not true. I've made alliances with factions who were at war with my other allies and they automatically made peace.

[Gnostiko]

That's not true. I've made alliances with factions who were at war with my other allies and they automatically made peace.

Ditto'd. It's not so clear cut though, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

@ Ginger, triple sure, Hungary have just declared war on me, and Poland have been at war with them for years, so that's another reason we should be able to ally!

[ginger_hammer]

Ah ok, my bad.

I'm also not sure as to the marrying rules with princesses. I guess as you can marry with any other christian faction then it makes peace straight away.

[Themis]

Also if your reputation is low (below mixed) its nigh impossible to get an alliance, and faction relations do matter aswell.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I wondered what could prevent the 'Alliance' option in the diplomacy thread? I had completely owned the Norwegians in my campaign and I want them to cover my back...

Oooops...I was gonna answer the title but your question stumps me and I'l like to know as well. Now I will tell you that you have a totally "own" a faction to make it a vassal. With A lot of factions I've totally owned the AI opted for self-preservation{not destruction} and gladly. cease-fired, then allied. Of course they served as only a windbreak and pawn in my Machiavellian schemes...

Edit: Oh one thought. What if you are in current alliance with one of their enemies.

[ginger_hammer]

It may have changed in v6.2 RC4 compared to 6.1 as well.

[kosmosje1]

I have loaded the game for this and made some screenshots. I cannot see the problem tbh. I reasoned it might be the fact that I am currently owning their old Capital?

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I really don't think that's the overall problem. I've had several of these situations and somehow it seems like the AI flipped a coin and were either goona play ball or lay low, be antagonistic, then try and get even later

[ginger_hammer]

hmmm it would seem there are some unknown factors working in the background, however I don't know which files to begin looking into it. Perhaps somebody more knowledgable can help!

[django333]

I've got a similar situation in my current campaign. (Mongols 6.2 RC4)

I've destroyed Kwarezm, who were allied with the Seljuks. I am now at war with the Seljuks. I'm allied with the Moors who are allied with the Fatimids. The Fatimids are also at war with the Seljuks. However, I can't ally with the Fatimids even though my relations with them are "good". The option doesn't even show up on the diplomacy screen. I've tried giving them money over the last 10 turns with no luck.

I guess it could be my global reputation since I have a lot of high dread generals and I executed every Kwarezm soldier I came across. However, that war ended about 15 turns ago and I've been pretty chivalric in the war against the Seljuks. My being at war with the Seljuks has proabably saved the Fatimids a lot of lives since they have been busy with Crusaders for the last 10 turns or so. When I started the war with the Seljuks my rep with the Fatimids was "poor". It has slowly gone up as I kill more and more of their enemy for them.

So perhaps global rep is the key? How do I go about raising it and what are the diferent levels?

[Gnostiko]

I believe the problem is descr_faction_standings, though I could be wrong.

[ginger_hammer]

I may be wrong, but I thought global rep will affect the AI willingness to ally, etc but not the actual option of 'alliance' being available on the diplomacy screen.

django - To raise global rep I think you need to do chivalrus (sp?) things such as occupying, release prisoners, low taxes, etc

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Guys/Gals.....

There's something else afoot as well. When we start mixing different Sub-Mods together whose to say what going to manifest in various aspects of our games. Yes yes..I know I'm computer clueless and you computer types are going to tell me that x's & o's are only x's & o's. I got news for ya's I've seen some freaky things happen in a few of my game's

So whose to say really. I do believe that in many respects the AI does indeed have a mind of it's own...

[django333]

@ Mega Tortus

I'm not using multiple sub-mods though. Only 6.2 which isn't compatible with any other mods atm.

@ ginger_hammer

I figured as much. i suppose it's just going to take a while for the rest of the world to forget my atrocities against the Kwarezm Shah. Looking back, I bet they are sorry they weren't more accepting of my diplomats.

[kosmosje1]

I'm using SS6.1 without supply playing at M/M.

I'll just destroy them I think...

[Tacitursa]

I wonder if its anything to do with taking there capital. Give them there capital back and then see if u can make an alliance with them?

EDIT: Can you show the diplomacy for venice and hungary - Norways allies i think. Maybe one of them are at with with one of your allies france is next to a venice region maybe they are at war.

[Caesar Clivus]

Maybe it's because your relations with them are poor, according to the diplomacy screenshot you posted :hmmm: