A 200 year long cluster-:wub:

[jsktrogdor]

Does anyone else thing its strange we always blame the president for everything that goes wrong? That seems to be the most enduring occupation of the executive branch, to be the national scapegoat for 4-8 years. I dont think congress has ever gotten the praise, or scorn that it deserves. As a more liberal person I can say that a lot of liberals look at the bush administration and blame him personally. But so rarely does anyone bring up the congress who aproved the wars, or gave him such obscene powers.

Lets be honest, the US Congressional branch has been a 200 year long cluster-. Even before we were a country these greedy basterds have been bickering like dogs over a carcas. If you read anything about the way congress is run it becomes obvious how corrupt, inept, greedy, and inefficient the whole branch is.

Just look at this last stimulus bill, Obama is up at the pulpit shouting about bi-partisanship meanwhile congress is down in the pit having Newt Gingrich knife fight Nanci Polosi. The democrats didnt make nearly enough concessions to the republicans, the republicans block voted against it like stubborn children and everyone tacked on stupid spending for wasteful pet projects. Seriously, I think most of america's problems are a result of the way congress is run. And I think the way america is run has become a reflection of congress. Maybe, just maybe, if congressmen cared a little bit more about their country and less about:

-leaving a legacy
-becoming famous
-making powerful friends
-working with the lobbiests
-passing pet projects
-argueing with other party
-getting drugs and sex from oil companies
-getting drugs and sex from green peace
-getting drugs and sex from the teachers union
-getting drugs and sex from evangelical christians
-getting drugs and sex from people in airport bathrooms
-getting drugs and sex from pages
-......I lost my train of thought?

[MathiasOfAthens]

And the last thing that the founders wanted congress to resemble was the Roman republican senate.

[Gelgoog]

And the last thing that the founders wanted congress to resemble was the Roman republican senate.

yes they did, they despised the pure democracy of athens and admired the roman republic. thats why we are a republic to begin with

if you meant that only the rich were in elected office....well even thats debatable. They didnt trust the common man/mob rule which is why we have an electoral system.

[Kiljan Arslan]

yes they did, they despised the pure democracy of athens and admired the roman republic. thats why we are a republic to begin with

if you meant that only the rich were in elected office....well even thats debatable. They didnt trust the common man/mob rule which is why we have an electoral system.

I think that had to do with alot of the common man not being able to read or write.

[The Dude]

yes they did, they despised the pure democracy of athens and admired the roman republic. thats why we are a republic to begin with

if you meant that only the rich were in elected office....well even thats debatable. They didnt trust the common man/mob rule which is why we have an electoral system.

Learn your history. Athens was hardly a pure democracy.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Learn your history. Athens was hardly a pure democracy.

Nothing is ever a pure democracy, but I think he was referring to the mob mentality that was the ancient greek polis. Rhodos and Athens were very similar. Land owning Aristocracy voted.
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Coach Purses

[Saturn]

+rep

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

All Republics are ultimately doomed to implode on their corruption.

[touchmaster]

No comment.

[MathiasOfAthens]

I would argue that they feared the class system of Ancient rome that led to the empire more. However, I agree with you that they did admire what Rome was, but they knew there were flaws.
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Wanna_Play_Hot

[MansaSakura]

well, barring a corrupt congress/senate, we are left with few options

1. improve ethics laws (current process)
2. make congress toothless (roman empire model)

the roman empire lasted longer than the roman republic, but u can debate exactly how successful an enterprise it really was. I'd also like to remind everyone here that a purely imperial model of gov't has never lasted. the most successful gov't in history has been the british model which has had a representative body since like 1209.

I say Republic all the way. Empires never last.

[Gertrudius]

@OP
Thanks for starting this topic. +rep

I agree that congress doesn't get held accountable for anything, nor does it get the credit it should, though I'm at a loss to remember the last time it deserved any. If everyone keeps blaming the president for everything, than congress will continue to mismanage the country without having any consequences for their actions. Not the desired outcome in my opinion.

Although whenever I bring this up in a discussion with someone, I get labeled as a Bush apologist, which is far from the truth. I believe in placing blame where it's due, so we can refuse to reelect the bastards that keep ing up, and elect someone else, who knows full well we will not be shy about ending his career if he chooses to be a dumb .

Take it easy,

[jsktrogdor]

@OP
Thanks for starting this topic. +rep

I agree that congress doesn't get held accountable for anything, nor does it get the credit it should, though I'm at a loss to remember the last time it deserved any. If everyone keeps blaming the president for everything, than congress will continue to mismanage the country without having any consequences for their actions. Not the desired outcome in my opinion.

Although whenever I bring this up in a discussion with someone, I get labeled as a Bush apologist, which is far from the truth. I believe in placing blame where it's due, so we can refuse to reelect the bastards that keep ing up, and elect someone else, who knows full well we will not be shy about ending his career if he chooses to be a dumb .

Take it easy,

Its almost like americans have accepted congress the way it is. You start talking to someone about how corrupt and inefficient it is and they say "its just always been that way". There are jokes about lawmakers and how terrible they are at doing their job. Its like the "boys will be boys" ideal, "oh whats that congress is tacking on wastes of billions of our tax dollars? thats just how they roll you know?"

[Gertrudius]

Its almost like americans have accepted congress the way it is. You start talking to someone about how corrupt and inefficient it is and they say "its just always been that way". There are jokes about lawmakers and how terrible they are at doing their job. Its like the "boys will be boys" ideal, "oh whats that congress is tacking on wastes of billions of our tax dollars? thats just how they roll you know?"

I totally agree. It's like voters have become so apathetic that they have forgotten who has the power over these politicians careers. I think only like 54% of the eligible population voted. That means 46% didn't care enough to even vote on who runs our country. Pretty sad if you ask me.

[Barry Goldwater]

I totally agree. It's like voters have become so apathetic that they have forgotten who has the power over these politicians careers. I think only like 54% of the eligible population voted. That means 46% didn't care enough to even vote on who runs our country. Pretty sad if you ask me.

Ugh...if apathy grew with time I'd hate to see America 50 or 60 years from now...what would be the voter turnout? 20-40%?

[Da Skinna]

Blame Andrew Jackson, he turned the presidency into the superstar office it is today, throwing out of balance the checks and balances of THREE, yes 3, three branches of government, meant to counterweight the others.

Other than that, spot on.

[Admiral Piett]

I guarantee you that at least 60% of the problems Congress has, or heck, maybe even 70%, are due to the two-bloc party system.

Our system of government was not designed to be run by political machines. It was designed to run off of representation of the masses, not parties or interests.

Until the Republocratic deadlock is broken, nothing will ever change. It's the truth. The only way to do this is to change how we run elections.

If you've noticed, all Congress does is sit and oppose itself, unwilling to compromise.

[Nole4694]

I guarantee you that at least 60% of the problems Congress has, or heck, maybe even 70%, are due to the two-bloc party system.

Our system of government was not designed to be run by political machines. It was designed to run off of representation of the masses, not parties or interests.

Until the Republocratic deadlock is broken, nothing will ever change. It's the truth. The only way to do this is to change how we run elections.

If you've noticed, all Congress does is sit and oppose itself, unwilling to compromise.

That is all too true, many of the men behind the constitution, and its first employers, belived that parties would ruin this country including George Washington. Unfortuneatly, nonparty democracy is much tougher than party democracy for the individual politicians, and the few with the same views and those with the most influence banneded together to try to get their views and not the peoples across and so it has been since.

[Scar Face]

I guarantee you that at least 60% of the problems Congress has, or heck, maybe even 70%, are due to the two-bloc party system.

Our system of government was not designed to be run by political machines. It was designed to run off of representation of the masses, not parties or interests.

Until the Republocratic deadlock is broken, nothing will ever change. It's the truth. The only way to do this is to change how we run elections.

If you've noticed, all Congress does is sit and oppose itself, unwilling to compromise.

If you notice, all representative democracy results in the representatives looking out for their own interests. It's a universal flaw. Parties hurt the system, yes, but they did nothing more than speed up the inevitable damage.

[jsktrogdor]

If you notice, all representative democracy results in the representatives looking out for their own interests. It's a universal flaw. Parties hurt the system, yes, but they did nothing more than speed up the inevitable damage.

I think the real problems arise when our reps start caring more about their party and themselves than they do the country as a whole. Just look at the way the current Congress behaves. The Democrats have 58.6% of the 'voting share', thats a 60/40 split in power. Do they behave that way? No, neither do the republicans, when one party takes the majority they suddenly act like they are god's chosen party and try to shut the other one out.

They arnt representing the nation which is split 60/40, theyre representing their party which is split 100/0. I dont think the two party system is nessicarily a bad thing, its just the way that the two parties are behaving that is a bad thing.