War Crime Trials Agaisnt US officials

[Sphere]

I just watched a PBS documentary that interviewed Dick Armitage, the top Civilian Lawyer for the Navy, a Army prosecutor at Guantanamo as well as three ex-detainees who have been released. Also in the documentary were the legal memo's by Jon Yoo as well as the interrogation logs for detainee's. Most surprising though, were the FBI documents that were said to be part of an FBI operation to gather War Crimes evidence at Guantanamo. The source of these FBI documents were not clearly explained. The information in the documentary was very damning, and backed up by the very high ranking officials interviewed.

I have also heard an interview on NPR concerning the possiblity of international prosectution for ex-Bush officials. There are rumors that many of these officials are staying within US borders for fear of extradition and prosecution under the Geneva conventions.

If you read between the lines, it looks like the Obama justice department is indeed gathering evidence and investigating. Obama has publically not ruled out prosecution of crimes committed during the previous administration.

I think that it is becoming more and more likely that prosecutions willtake place within the next four years. Donald Rumsfeld is the only cabinet level official that needs to be worried from what I have heard.

[Zephyrus]

Lets hope so.

[YuriVII]

I hear the Germans got Rumsfeld on some charges.

[danzig]

Was an interesting article in local (Daily News) newspaper here in NYC that surely will annoy some people. He basically argued do we have a right to punish those who we "cheered" on 6 years ago as protecting us? Even Democrats werent vocal in opposition to use of torture early on, it was only later when the details came out and the abuse that the country became disgusted by what we were doing. His argument is basically yesterday's heros who were "protecting america from the evil islamic extremist horde" (note he mocks this argument but he uses it as a accurate view of american public back in 2002, 2003 etc) are now today's scapegoat out of guilt. Wish I could find the link for the article again because it does bring up some interesting points.

He basically comes to the conclusion we dont really have the moral high ground to punish people who were doing what we supported early on. That any investigations (and there should be according to him) should be based on ensuring we never so stupidity support such things in the future.

[green tea]

I hear the Germans got Rumsfeld on some charges.

The german attorney general did not file a case against Rumsfeld because "if there were war crimes to be punished, the U.S. will surely punish them". That was ridiculous at that time and of course a political decision, but also the only realistic. Or should Germany really get into open conflict with its largest and most important ally? No german politician that is interested in being elected again would propose that (maybe some extreme right/ left would). Wasn´t it (obviously with good reasons) the Bush administration that made a law to force the U.S. to free every U.S. citizen that would ever be accused/get a trial at the international war crimes law court in Den Haag (or whereever, don´t remember, but I mean the court that also made the trial against the serbian Milosevic).

But one interesting thing in this context is what Bush said to israeli journalists some time ago, it went something like this: "I will be long gone until some smart person finds out what exactly has happened in this oval office". (When I find the exact quote, I will edit it in here):



Edit: "I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office,"

-- to Israeli journalists in Washington in an interview published May 12, 2008.

[Admiral Piett]

Good news. There's very little chance in hell anything will come of it, but if it does, it will be a victory for justice. Instead of pulling a 1974 and all the guilty guys just get off scot-free.

[touchmaster]

Wtf? Let them be, for Christ sakes...

I think you should let history judge him..

[Mikelus Trento]

Wtf? Let them be, for Christ sakes...

I think you should let history judge him..

Good plan. Is that the "ostrich sticks his head in the sand" manuver?

If America is a land of law, which it is, and the law has been broken, it must be prosecuted.

And thankfully it sounds like it will be.

[Strattios]

They will not and cannot be persecuted. In the US it is illegal to go after such actions made by officials under orders of previous parties. What they did was perfectly legal at the time and you can't expect to punish people for following orders and then hope people will ever do what you ask them because the will fear similar reprisals down the line.

[Zephyrus]

They will not and cannot be persecuted. In the US it is illegal to go after such actions made by officials under orders of previous parties. What they did was perfectly legal at the time and you can't expect to punish people for following orders and then hope people will ever do what you ask them because the will fear similar reprisals down the line.

Not to mention that they covered their tracks very well. They figured out how the SS fell to israeli headhunters, and as long as we're friends with them, we don't have to worry about getting charged with warcrimes from that powerful sector.

Why prosecute them when we technically won in Iraq?

Half of the country is back in Iraq hands

You people seem to forget what Bush went threw during his Presidency...

Ya, where are the WMDS? You know, the ones that Saddam supposedly had and was the sole purpose, apparently, of going to war with this people?

Allow me to shed a tear for Bush's tragic suffering compared to the 4000+ soldiers' families'.

Because the USA doesn't wage war just for humanitarians reasons.

[touchmaster]

Not to mention that they covered their tracks very well. They figured out how the SS fell to israeli headhunters, and as long as we're friends with them, we don't have to worry about getting charged with warcrimes from that powerful sector.

Ya, where are the WMDS? You know, the ones that Saddam supposedly had and was the sole purpose, apparently, of going to war with this people?

Allow me to shed a tear for Bush's tragic suffering compared to the 4000+ soldiers' families'.

Because the USA doesn't wage war just for humanitarians reasons.

OK so if they do try them, what in your mind would be there sentences... (If they even find them guilty, there probably won't even be a trail.. )

[Talbaz]

They will not and cannot be persecuted. In the US it is illegal to go after such actions made by officials under orders of previous parties. What they did was perfectly legal at the time and you can't expect to punish people for following orders and then hope people will ever do what you ask them because the will fear similar reprisals down the line.

oh god i can't believe am saying this it should be against the law or something

anywho....yeah that really work for the Germans now didn't it


edit: psst here Nuremberg Defense

[Viking Prince]

Nothing like asking Pres. Obama to destroy any chance of political success for his administration.

Are the lefties actually this nuts?

[Giuliano Taverna]

Nothing like asking Pres. Obama to destroy any chance of political success for his administration.

Are the lefties actually this nuts?

Yes, they are. This is absolutely insane, they want trials? lets put these collaborationists on trial for treason!

[touchmaster]

They won't stop, they can't ing move on...

[Dr. Croccer]

They won't stop, they can't ing move on...

Yeah, that's what we said when righties demanded to scan the world for elderly SS officers that killed 5 people, so they could kill them.

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

They won't stop, they can't ing move on...

That's I say about the families of murder victims.


Move on, I'm not putting someone to death cause you wan't 'closure'. What total pussies these guys are.

[touchmaster]

That's I say about the families of murder victims.


Move on, I'm not putting someone to death cause you wan't 'closure'. What total pussies these guys are.

I wasn't talking about the victims, why the hell did you bring that up? It has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I was talking to you Liberal Democrats who have to whine and about everything..

[Centurion-Lucius-Vorenus]

I wasn't talking about the victims, why the hell did you bring that up? It has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I was talking to you Liberal Democrats who have to whine and about everything..

I know. Just like those families of murder victims have to wine about their deceased loved ones.

So your mom was stabbed in an alley ? Suck it up, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. Kill them yourself if your so upset over it, it cost's alot of money to house someone on death row and kill him. Dirty commies, taking other peoples money so the government kills people for them. What pinkos.

[Pious Agnost]

I wasn't talking about the victims, why the hell did you bring that up? It has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

I was talking to you Liberal Democrats who have to whine and about everything..

Perhaps he's talking about the victims because the Bush Administration has killed thousands of Iraqis, a significant amount of them civilians