Why edessian guard is so weak?

[Blackader]

I play actually an Antioch campaign. I see Edessian guard, and think : "mmh, AP, good defense, very good attack, good looking, those guys are probably a very good infantry unit". I recruit tons of them. And... they are beaten by almost all of egyptian infantry, except perhaps militia. Gazhi slaughter them easely. I've lost some battle due to those guys.
A little angry, I make some personnal battles, on open ground,with only Edessian Guard for me and various infantry. They are beaten by kurdish auxiliary! And Saracen Militia! Are the stats buggy? Or so?

[Surgeon]

Edessan Guard are shock infantry. They deliver a good initial punch (you'll notice they have a better charge bonus than most cavalry!) but don't fare too well in long melees. You need to back them up with other troops after their first attack. Also, you can use them to flank the enemy while they are bogged down by your own troops.

[eggthief]

Shorter said, theyre a 2h axe unit meaning that it could never be worth its cost, if you want to use charges you'd better recruit cavalry.

[Blackader]

And why 2h axe unit are so worthless? It is a bug ? On the other side, English knights are 2h axe unit and they are pretty good. But it's true that gothic foot knights or english swordsmen are far better than norse axemen, who should be normally a deadly unit.

[eggthief]

Axe animations are so broken, they're way to slow which means that they'll constantly get interrupted and even if they manage to strike someone there is still a good chance that the enemy will just block the attack. English knights don't use a 2h axe iirc. Anyway like surgeon said, they're best used as shock infantry, but cavalry has charges for more devestating so that makes 2h axe units rather irrelevant.

[Dewy]

you could speed up the attack time couldn't you? i don;t know i'm just a modeller not a txt editor

[Surgeon]

You can speed up the animation, technically, or replace their current set of animations with that of 2h swordsmen. However when you do that 2h axe units like DEKs and Edessan Guard become end-all infantry who put the laughter in slaughter and horribly desecrate enemy corpses.

Come on people, think! There's a reason why they have by far the most powerful armor-piercing melee attack and a charge bonus like a knight. Their animation is supposed to be slow or they will be completely unstoppable. You think after four or so patches CA really wasn't able to "fix" this bug?

[Blackader]

I don't want them unstoppable, but now, they are beaten by kurdish militia. It isn't perhaps a bug, but it's ridiculous.

[Yojimbo]

It's because of the 2hand bug well done CA well done.

I love how i have to have the entire polearms section in my guide say "they are nearly useless" for every polearm and explain the bugs.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Eh, are you guys playing with the patch? CA fixed the 2-hander bug a long time ago. They still attack slow, but thats not a bug afaik. They are not line infantry.

[Surgeon]

They can be line infantry if you mix them in with other infantry types. Mix them in with spears = severe cavalry pwnage. Mix them in with swordsmen (or some other heavy infantry) = good charge + anti-infantry. One on one they don't do well in long melees, but if the enemy is being distracted by other targets, axemen can kill a lot of people because their crazy attack values let them off almost anyone with one hit.

[Theseus1234]

for the last time, it is NOT a BUG
YOU try lifting and attacking shielded men with a 2 handed axe. it would be IMPOSSIBLE to do it with the same ferocity and speed of a sword or spear, no matter how strong you are. they are not to go 1 on 1 with any unit unless that unit is stationary cavalry or a similar 2 handed unit

[eggthief]

Ah yes, and its also very logical that once a giant axe is swinging at you, all you gotta do is put the peasant dagger of doom between yourself and the blade and you'll be fine.

[Theseus1234]

ok fine, maybe the peasant and other one handed things is a little messed up, but it still makes sense with any shielded sword or spear unit

[Surgeon]

How is it any less logical than a peasant with a knife blocking swords, maces, axes and spears from professional soldiers, not to mention being able to actually kill said soldiers when they're wearing plate armor?

[eggthief]

Well then logic is placed second behind historical accuracy on the "what we've raped" list of CA.

[Theseus1234]

being rant-
be nice to CA. it's like a baby who drew a series of pictures. they may look like squiggly lines to you, but you're not gonna critique and criticize them on every color choice and misplaced line unless you are a terrible, soulless creature. and with the advent of "imagination" (aka mods), the picture becomes a whole lot better! but it was still the CA child that made the picture in the first place, we just refined it
-end rant

[eggthief]

being rant-
but you're not gonna critique and criticize them on every color choice and misplaced line unless you are a terrible, soulless creature.

Apparently, you don't know me very well.

[Theseus1234]

Apparently, you don't know me very well.

apparently not, lol

Theseus that post sounds gay lol. But you are right i think, wait a childes pictures are carp but this game is good WTH that post now doesn't even make sense if you think about it. The idea was good but the action(ie writing) was bad

haha. it makes sense to me but i'm pretty sure i was feeling the after-effects of a long day at that time

[Dewy]

Theseus that post sounds gay lol. But you are right i think, wait a childes pictures are carp but this game is good WTH that post now doesn't even make sense if you think about it. The idea was good but the action(ie writing) was bad