DLV Europa battlefield combat mechanics

**moimeme** · January 30, 2009, 04:35 PM

Everything is in the title, I played both Eupora and 6.0 and I must say that the battles are in my opinion better in Europa, every stats have been changed, archers are more realistics. Now you won't destroy an entire unit of gothic foot knight with a single unit of archers as previously.

Is there any chance to this system combat to be include in the main DLV 6.0?

**Taiji** · January 30, 2009, 06:32 PM

Sorry I don't know the answer to the question but please tell me more about whats better in the europa battlefield mechanics?

I would really appreciate the feedback

EDIT: BTW I tried having low powered inaccurate archers but everyone cried about it so I had to raise them. (I've been stealth nerfing them ever since but don't tell anyone

)

**Gaias** · January 30, 2009, 08:35 PM

I don't think that it's really about unit stats that makes DLV Europa battles more interesting. It's more to the fact that you cannot field and entire army of your best units. You have to pick and choose which units you want to make up in your army. A few elites with alot of cannon fodder for the first part of it. Makes for more interesting battles as you have to really coddle you good units as they are expensive to maintain.

**Taiji** · January 30, 2009, 09:27 PM

I 100% agree there, Gaias. DLV 6 really needs some better regulating of unit recruitment pools and their recharge times. It affects the AI nicely too, no facing armies full of dismounted feudal knights for one. It's a really attractive thing to import, you got any other cool ideas Gaias?

**Bacus** · January 30, 2009, 10:12 PM

-"Suddenly the skies open and Bacus faces no more those horrid zombie-like egyptian armies fully covered with muslim infantry and dismounted ghulams!, from now on regular looking armies, with regular armies, such as the ones used by Bacus himself, some heavy infantry, a couple of archers, a lil' bit of cavalry, why not some horse archers to the mix?, a general, and a scoop of anti-armor infantry."-
Sorry i felt my soul being touched :$

**Raaka** · January 31, 2009, 02:37 AM

I find high cost/upkeep/longer recruit times for elite units to be something I'd like to see in 6.0 as well but I guess general opinion might be against this. Anyways if that cannot be achieved in DLV maybe a mini-mod can be introduced. It's hard to balance between fun and realism

**Taiji** · January 31, 2009, 07:02 AM

Ah I see I misunderstood, I thought it was about recruit pools but it's about costs....

I've done an import of all the costs from Europa, in some cases they don't make sense but that was true of DLV 6.0 anyway and there's plenty of time to refine it.

I just want to check that it's Ok to release it before I do.

EDIT: Harry gave me permission

you can grab it at the thread on my sig

**moimeme** · February 01, 2009, 07:34 PM

Taiji, I did not try it a lot, I did some battle and took a large look at the differences between the battles mechanics of DLV_Europa and DLV_6.0. The game seems well balanced generally, like I said, a single unit of archer won't destroy a heavily armored troop by themself, it change a lot of things, no more abuse of overpowered archers.

Archers have their role but infantry and cavalry also, you can't depend mainly on archers as a <killing gun quality>( Harry Lime said something like this when I talk about archers in DLV_Europa) So, it makes your infantry more valuable and heavily armoured troops even more. Now the gothic foot knight can domine the battlefield!
Also, the weapon type(halbarde, 2H swords....) is well balanced, that's cool. As gaias said, units are expensives!! it makes you buit a more realistic army and not an elite army priceless.

So in my opinion this is a better balanced battles mechanics.

Sorry for basic English.

**Taiji** · February 02, 2009, 06:06 AM

Thanks for that Moimeme, I really appreciate that comparison.

I'm a big fan of Point Blank's work (I can't think of any better system overall) and so I'm always comparing my work against his. His system is very detailed and in some areas it seems quite realistic, especially the modelling of missile weapons. As far as gameplay goes I'm beginning to think that striving for realism might not be the best way forward. There are mechanisms within M2TW that are not realistic but add some enjoyable detail to the battlefield and I've been trying to make these work where they do not seem to work at all in so many other mods. Added to that is the issue of cavalry spread which has caused a lot of thinking and rebalancing. Plus Point Blanks work with RR is awesome, most of it is not present in Europa but if you check out his latest RRRC minimod for SS6.1 I'm sure you'll be very impressed even having seen his excellent work in Europa.

Basically there should be big differences in our work, I am working with features like powerful flanking, cav spread, spearmen with slashing damage vulnerability and extra pushing power, etc. which are not really present in PB's work. I'm certainly not saying that my work is better than PB's but I think that in places it is, just as I think (quite often) that I have a long way to go to match PB's system with all it offers.

It might not be your first language but you're english is great Moimeme, thankyou for taking the time to explain stuff to me

+rep

**Bacus** · February 02, 2009, 08:07 AM

Hey taiji i'm getting some ctds now, (i don't have 6.1 installed) I've passed the 1 plague. and it's rather regular to have ctds when passing turns, thing is is not on the same moment when it does. how can i upload the ctd log?

**Taiji** · February 02, 2009, 09:20 AM

Hiya Bacus, the first post on the bug reports thread (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219297) explains how to do this. I'd recommend that you post your issue on that thread as I doubt any of my work can cause CTDs in AI turns.

Looking forward to the next update to your AAR, mate