Mao Zedong is Qin?

[Chukada1]

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=1vQm2B...eature=related

eh, eh? Amirite?

[Exarch]

hey kinda reminds me back in the 90s when a lot of american media attempted to portray confucian values as being 'baad'

[Chukada1]

hey kinda reminds me back in the 90s when a lot of american media attempted to portray confucian values as being 'baad'

Lol did they really do that?

That doesn't make much sense at all. Treat others however the heck you want to treat them, because nobody cares! The golden rule is a lie. Don't support your family, don't respect your elders, don't give respect to the dead, don't be tolerent? That's the proper human decency, not these barbaric ideals that confucianism promotes so profoundly!

[Exarch]

Lol did they really do that?

That doesn't make much sense at all. Treat others however the heck you want to treat them, because nobody cares! The golden rule is a lie. Don't support your family, don't respect your elders, don't give respect to the dead, don't be tolerent? That's the proper human decency, not these barbaric ideals that confucianism promotes so profoundly!

this was back in the 90s
time magazine started calling north korea 'confucian' and attempted to equate confucianism with communism
if the idiots had doen their research they would've labelled taiwan south korea singapore malaysia, phillipines, japan as confucian as well

[Farnan]

Confucianism is very authoritarian and patriarchal, though meritocratic.

And Chuckada, the Golden Rule is only a tiny part of Confucianism.


And didn't Korea replace Confucianism with Cheondoism to a great degree?

Oh and the CCP is more Legalist than Confuciust.

Oh and the Philippines is as Confucian as the United States. They have a completely different political tradition, as does probably Malaysia.

[Exarch]

Confucianism is very authoritarian and patriarchal, though meritocratic.
.

that's like saying western christian based values are authoritarian and patriarchal;
where do u get off telling asians whov'e lived with confucianism that they're wrong?

[Farnan]

that's like saying western christian based values are authoritarian and patriarchal;
where do u get off telling asians whov'e lived with confucianism that they're wrong?

First, where did I say they were wrong?

Second, I can say they were wrong all I want.

Third, Confucianism is based off of authoritarianism and patriarchy. The idea of the family being subordinate to the father is the main tenet of Confucianism, and the Confucian ideal of an ideal leader is a benevolent authoritarian supported by a technocratic court. Christianity does not give any form of government as ideal as its not concerned with that as its a religion not a government philosophy like Confucianism.

Also, you can disagree and say Confucianism is wrong, just as the Divine Right of Kings is wrong, and facism is wrong and individualism is wrong. I'm not saying Confucianism is wrong, its just not beyond criticism (I personally believe it was good for the era it was conceived and will be good today with reform).

[Exarch]

First, where did I say they were wrong?

Second, I can say they were wrong all I want.

Third, Confucianism is based off of authoritarianism and patriarchy. The idea of the family being subordinate to the father is the main tenet of Confucianism, and the Confucian ideal of an ideal leader is a benevolent authoritarian supported by a technocratic court. Christianity does not give any form of government as ideal as its not concerned with that as its a religion not a government philosophy like Confucianism.

Also, you can disagree and say Confucianism is wrong, just as the Divine Right of Kings is wrong, and facism is wrong and individualism is wrong. I'm not saying Confucianism is wrong, its just not beyond criticism (I personally believe it was good for the era it was conceived and will be good today with reform).

confucianism varies according to each culture; for eg korean families tend to be more strict when it comes to family hierarchy than say a traditional taiwanese family.
as for reform, i reckon it's up to each and every family, the family patriarch, usually the grandfather of the family name is accorded a deep sense of respect but that doesnt mean he'll be dishing out orders and directives or deciding what goes on in his grandson's life.
comparing confucianism to christinaity is flawed for the simple reason that confucianism is about following a code of ethics where everyone has a part to play as opposed to the proselytizing nature of christianity.

@kiljan
have you anything meaningful to contribute?
or do you wish to demonstrate why america should provide more funding to its education system?
talk about the pot calling the kettle black, been going to church lately
at least captain jin didnt lack the balls to enlist in the navy rather than putting his arse on the line in the army.

[Acco]

And didn't Korea replace Confucianism with Cheondoism to a great degree?

Not necessarily. Although Confucian places of ancestral worship and scholarship have been effectively transformed into tourist hubs where historical artifacts are bountiful, Confucian values still majorly influence the people of Korea today; many Koreans possess Confucian values while being a member of another religion since Confucianism isn't necessarily regarded as a religion. Many Korean traditions follow Confucian aesthetic - off the top of my head I would predict flower/garden arrangement, possibly pottery as well. Even strong influence of Confucianism has taken place in organizational hierarchies and administration. Besides, percentage-wise Confucianism is more wide-spread than Cheondoism (alright, by 0.1% but either way... :p) in South Korea, but if we were to take into account the Confucian influence in S. Korea, in addition to those officially registered as Confucian, the percentage would be at a gargantuan level. Ditto for North Korea, somewhat, where the cultural influence of some traditional religions (such as Buddhism, Confucianism) has a major effect on the spiritual life of many North Koreans, despite the country being officially Atheist.

[Kiljan Arslan]

BTW I smell some hypocrisy here

[Kiljan Arslan]

Oh just poiting out how someone here can't help but bash other beliefs but suddenly gets defensive with this one.

[Exarch]

Oh just poiting out how someone here can't help but bash other beliefs but suddenly gets defensive with this one.

defensive about what?
i point out prejudices and misconceptions and i'm labelled a 'hypocrite'?
here let me help you:
a hypocrite is someone who claims to fight against 'bigotry' yet fails to analyze why his own belief system is bigoted.ahem that's you ahem in case it's too subtle for you
a hypocrite is someone who aggravates and trolls people with an unfunny 'mongol references yet cant take the heat when someone else serves him his own medicine and goes crying to the moderators or mummy and daddy.

getting the picture now?

btw i'm not even confucianist anywayz so your points are moot.

[Kiljan Arslan]

yes you will only go after certain beliefs that some might find offensive.

[Exarch]

yes you will only go after certain beliefs that some might find offensive.

you really havent done your homework have you?
but hey since it's you, i gotta take what i can get from you.

@OP
cant say i'm surprised, even a decade of the cultural revolution isnt going to wipe out millenia year old history and customs

[Kiljan Arslan]

good thing although some peolpe would like to see such things eradicated.

[Exarch]

good thing although some peolpe would like to see such things eradicated.

yes, good thing

[Kiljan Arslan]

Those I am talking about include the likes of Mao with his really retarded (and culturally destructive "Cultural revolution".

[Exarch]

Those I am talking about include the likes of Mao with his really retarded (and culturally destructive "Cultural revolution".

so what's your point?
Mao's cultural revolution is universally regarded as a travesty, something the Chinese gov. tacitly acknowledges by restoring the temples, artowkrs which were prey to the excesses of the Red Guards.

besides, last monday should be evidence enough for the cultural revolution's failure; the numbers of chinese within and without visiting temples and partaking in chinese new years practices millenia old-something the cultural revolution would've seen as 'backward superstition'-is testament to the fact that a decade of social engineering will not do away with generations of practice and cultural values.

[pannonian]

so what's your point?
Mao's cultural revolution is universally regarded as a travesty, something the Chinese gov. tacitly acknowledges by restoring the temples, artowkrs which were prey to the excesses of the Red Guards.

besides, last monday should be evidence enough for the cultural revolution's failure; the numbers of chinese within and without visiting temples and partaking in chinese new years practices millenia old-something the cultural revolution would've seen as 'backward superstition'-is testament to the fact that a decade of social engineering will not do away with generations of practice and cultural values.

Another way of looking at it is that nationalism is a big part of Chinese culture, the idea of China the nation. Which is different from nationalism as generally described today, but whose form would be recognisable to pre-WW1 Europeans. Like them, there is a desire to connect to as much history as they can, in order to establish their historical and cultural superiority. And unlike most of them, China does actually have a lot of history to draw on. Whether the CCP is Confucian, Legalist or whatever, this seems to be their dominant ideology - Chinese nationalism. It's not bad as such, but it's quaint, reminding the west of what we were like before WW1 recast us in cynicism.

[Exarch]

Another way of looking at it is that nationalism is a big part of Chinese culture, the idea of China the nation. Which is different from nationalism as generally described today, but whose form would be recognisable to pre-WW1 Europeans. Like them, there is a desire to connect to as much history as they can, in order to establish their historical and cultural superiority. And unlike most of them, China does actually have a lot of history to draw on. Whether the CCP is Confucian, Legalist or whatever, this seems to be their dominant ideology - Chinese nationalism. It's not bad as such, but it's quaint, reminding the west of what we were like before WW1 recast us in cynicism.

good points, pannonian
i'd also like to point out though that pre ww-1 europeans emphasized their cultural superiority via politicizing science-notions of racial superiority and whatnot-something which is not acceptable today.

Confuciun ethics are based on the concept of a brotherhood of man, and to see how important family is in chinese culture, amongst friends or even just acquaintances terms like 'brother' 'sister 'auntie' are used.