Some thoughts on Turkish strategy

[Muagan_ra]

Finally finished a grand campaign with Milan, I'll be glad to not hear from his Holiness or bloody Germans for a while. Turkey has always been an attractive faction for me, since the original Medieval - and I like what I see of their army roster this time round, though I've never actually fought them before. The need for guerilla tactics and finesse greatly appeals to me.

However, I'd like some thoughts on my long term plan, I'm not sure how to proceed.

(1) Obviously I'll be swallowing up the nearby rebellious regions - Trezibond, Adana, Tblisi (anyone else hate how they replaced region names with generic ones based on the cities?)

(2) To follow on from the above, I reckon I'm going to leave Baghdad alone. Sure, it would be a good feather in my cap, but if I entrench myself in the east I'm going to have to fight yet another never-ending war against the Mongols (some of you may be familiar with my struggles against them as Milan if you've been reading around.)

If possible I want minimise my contact with them, or at least let someone else fight them, and step in to mop up in my own time. I'm even thinking of abandoning Mosul to that end...

(3) ... but I will obviously need to push into Byzantium early, and focus my empire to the west of Anotolia, rather than the east. The east is also rather spread out, I don't think it's very defensible - that said, it does have good terrain, all those ravines and chokepoints. The West and South is also more profitable, and will be a better economic base; let the Egyptians have the middle-east, and let the Mongols fight them over it. I'm more inclined to the richer west, where my tactics will be far more effective on heavilly armoured Europeans.

What do you think?

[O'Hea]

Somehow, I doubt it's going to be possible to avoid the Mongols. Even if you let the Egyptians get Antioch, you'll still be their immediate neighbor. I would still try and grab Baghdad etcetera, since the worst-case scenario is that you deprive the Egyptians of them and you give yourself a buffer area for when the Mongols do turn up.

[DJ_JasonX]

i'm playing turks on atm, but rather than the standard tactics of HA/guerrilla constant expansion, i'm turtling in order to tech up sufficiently for the mongols. two early jihads against rebels in order to get everyone's chivalry up, low taxes and population improvements all around to get everything up to huge walls and it's all going to plan so far. even tbilisi and yerevan will get to huge before the mongols arrive (soon now), and i've got a citadel at aleppo for ottoman infantry and naffatuns, and another with swordsmiths guild at edessa which will eventually produce the qupukulus (sp?).

when they arrive, cities will have garrisons of fully upgraded saracens & halberd militia or JHI, ottomans, naffatun and maybe some sipahis. field armies of captain led sipahis to wear them down. not sure i'll be able to get enough janissary archers to use in garrisons, but i'm planning infantry based field armies with JA to block river crossings.

bring it on!

[AU4Brent]

i'm playing turks on atm, but rather than the and another with swordsmiths guild at edessa which will eventually produce the qupukulus (sp?).

bring it on!

How in the name of Zeus's butthole, did you get a swordsmiths' guild as the Turks?

[Silent Assassin]

OK I would go a bit like the aboved said.

Go slowly don't expand to much, Get Antioch and Adana before Egypt does. Keep Adana as a castle and build it up as much as possible to have the best units possible for when the Mongols arrive( Don't take them on the battlefield let them siege you).

Garrison well Iconium and try to keep it safe from the Bysantines. I would try early on to get a good solid alliance with them.

[Nazgûl Killer]

When I played with the Turks, I was VERY unprepared for the Mongols as I did not expect them to arrive as early as they did, so I started some diplomatic relations with them, gave them Jerusalem (I captured it just for that), once I gave them Jerusalem, about 2 turns later, an Egyptian-Mongol war started, after I commenced a ceasefire with the Egyptians, while all that happened, I built about 10 assassins and started assassinating, whilst continuing the supplies of assassins to Jerusalem (And several spies to make matters easier), I was caught several times, but it was so worth it, as the mongols died 19 turns later. I decided to do the cowardly way because I was fighting Russia, Byzantium, Venice and Poland all at the same time, fighting the Mongols would've been really bad for my health.

[Silent Assassin]

When I played with the Turks, I was VERY unprepared for the Mongols as I did not expect them to arrive as early as they did, so I started some diplomatic relations with them, gave them Jerusalem (I captured it just for that), once I gave them Jerusalem, about 2 turns later, an Egyptian-Mongol war started, after I commenced a ceasefire with the Egyptians, while all that happened, I built about 10 assassins and started assassinating, whilst continuing the supplies of assassins to Jerusalem (And several spies to make matters easier), I was caught several times, but it was so worth it, as the mongols died 19 turns later. I decided to do the cowardly way because I was fighting Russia, Byzantium, Venice and Poland all at the same time, fighting the Mongols would've been really bad for my health.

You are right having multiple war fronts when the Mongols arrive ain't a good idea, they are so tedious that you need to concentrate only on them. When they are there your turns can take forever

[Muagan_ra]

Some food for thought. I think I will go for Antioch (it's mighty rich and easy to defend), but I don't want to Ally with Byzantium. The way I see it, I need as much wealth and power as I can to defend against the Mongols, not to mention the occassional Crusade, which means I will really have to establish a strong western Border; Constinople, Nicea, Syrmya and Rhodes are therefore ideal.

I can't have a pourus Border with the west around Galatia (Iconium region), it's just going to cost too much to keep a garrison there just-in-case.

The first time I simply went toe-to-toe with the Mongols. I handled them, but like Rebel said it becomes extremely tedious - I don't know what the Dev's where thinking with those absurdly overpowered Generals they have. So, this time around, I'm going to conduct a mainly clandestine war against them - I got the hang of using assassins late in my previous campaign, and this time around I think assassination will be a more cost effective way to fight them.

[DJ_JasonX]

i did the assassin thing once - i found it dull, and would rather have the epic battles fighting the hordes - but it's all about what you fancy doing this time round.

fyi, i did ally with the byz as well as egypt (keeping relations up with both), and haven't had more than a couple of milita + watchtowers in iconium. they haven't threatened at all - i only broke the alliance with them when i had to choose between them and hungary.

i've not been at war with any faction so far (egypt beat me to jerusalem but i just bought it off them for about 10K) - the whole point of this campaign was for me to turtle to face the mongols and tims in the field with combined arms. i liked the turk roster for this purpose.

[Nazgûl Killer]

You are right having multiple war fronts when the Mongols arrive ain't a good idea, they are so tedious that you need to concentrate only on them. When they are there your turns can take forever

I seem to have a problem, no matter which faction I'm playing as, I seem to always find myself fighting on 3 or so different fronts against like 4 nations, while I'm reliable! It doesn't really bother me as it is really fun, and takes a lot more strategy and planning than going into one front against one enemy and ripping his skull out and shoving it up his a--.

[Muagan_ra]

I know how to annihalate Mongol armies, the problem is that it just turns into a massive attrition war. You can't take an army and go on an offensive against them, because with the ridiculous generals they have it simply isn't possible to campaign aggressively because you take too many casualties along the way.

I could do it, I don't really need specific strategies for fighting them, I want to not fight them because I want a different style of play on this new campaign.

Maybe if I allow myself to become a Vassal, while they fight the Egyptians.

[Conquistatore]

Fortify your positions, garrison your castle's and cities. Use spies to track their movements so you can quickly reinforce a region that might be in danger. The easiest way to beat them is from a defensive position, let them come to you and die before your walls or in the face of your archers. Good luck.

EDIT: I wouldn't count on them to keep to the vassalage if that's what you decide. They are the golden horde and will ravage the east to the west, no matter who is in their path. Maybe your only option is to migrate your empire to the west, maybe the moorish lands or Iberia?

[Silent Assassin]

EDIT: I wouldn't count on them keep to the vassalage if that's what you decide. They are the golden horde and will ravage the east to the west, no matter who is in their path. Maybe your only option is to migrate your empire to the west, maybe the moorish lands or Iberia?

Exactly my thoughts

[Muagan_ra]

I suppose you're right, perhaps it is inevitable.

I've expanded in all directions, taken Antioch, about to take Edessa, and have already secured Armenia. My war against the Byzantines has been exciting, it's most entertaining to run rings around them with such a mobile army!

I've conquered Nicea, turned it into a castle, Cyprus (Nicosia) and then Constantinople. The Byzantines are a spent force, and will soon be swallowed up by Venice (with whom I have allied.) I've teched up very quickly as well, and can now field all varieties of Sipahi and Ottoman infantry, and soon enough will have access to Janissaries.

Egypt has called a Jihad to Baghdad, and I'm happy for them to have it, should ensure that the Egyptians will become drawn into the Mongol war. I figure also that when they arrive and possibly conquer Baghdad, I can call a Jihad against it, and hopefully draw the Egyptians into the fighting with field armies. Not to mention allowing me to raise a lot of armies to fight them with - free of upkeep!

[Conquistatore]

I like your strategy that you are going with. Seems to be working well for you! Isn't it interesting fielding almost all cavalry armies and almost all horse archers? Very different from the European style of war isn't it?

[Muagan_ra]

I like your strategy that you are going with. Seems to be working well for you! Isn't it interesting fielding almost all cavalry armies and almost all horse archers? Very different from the European style of war isn't it?

About half cavalry; I'm able to field Ottoman Infantry, and Saracen and Halbard Milita which are all surprisingly powerful. People complain about Muslim infantry, but from what I've seen the Turks have some good options in that arena as well.

I like that I have more flexibility, I can really get inventive with my strategy. For instance, in an important battle with the Byzantines outside Constantinople, I used my archers as a main front without anything behind them. This drew them into attack, and I was able to to "swing" my infantry line at a perpendicular angle to the archers just as they where attacked - it was an effective flank attack with spear infantry! My missile cavalry where able to come around the other flank and encase them in a "triangle". This is something simply not possible with European armies. Sort of a "door hinge" strategy.

Those Sipahi are a godsend, easilly one of the most powerful and versatile cavalry around.

[Conquistatore]

Interesting strategy you have there. How did it work out, mass slaughter of the enemy?

[Muagan_ra]

Interesting strategy you have there. How did it work out, mass slaughter of the enemy?

Completely - my archers took a hammering, but they're only peasant archers, pretty expendable. I managed to flank their generals with Saracen milita, and their infantry were just in a big horde, unable to bring their full strength to bear. It was beautiful.

[Conquistatore]

Try to keep relations between factions at least on good terms, this will minimise the 4 front wars you encounter.

[Silent Assassin]

Try to keep relations between factions at least on good terms, this will minimise the 4 front wars you encounter.

That is good but also, if you are playing a Mod some Modders improved the AI by making them do bloc alliances thoses alliances make them help each other ganbang another faction ....