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Thread: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

  1. #201
    Gigantus's Avatar You should always listen to your inner voice! - Agreed, but which one?
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Both the last two values are custom (last one is normally 1), guess it works together - best to ask the mod team directly.




  2. #202

    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    The mod was dead many years ago The last update of 'DLV Battle Balanced' doesnt have this numbers

  3. #203
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    For somebody modding the EDU in the future, this discussion in the EBII thread on the "can_formed_charge" and "power_charge" might be useful to understand (or rather to sow doubts) on how these attributes work.

  4. #204
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Do we know more about the "command" attribute for the units?

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_guy_4_you View Post
    Hello EB II devs, as a modder I wish to inform you that the "command" trait for units in the EDU is non-functional and does not actually boost the morale of nearby units. I would consult the Third Age Reforged team to get morale boosting effects that do work instead. Cheers!

  5. #205
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    I have a question about mercenary_unit attribute.
    I know three effects of this attribute:


    • enables the use of one skin for all factions (so that it doesn’t need to be duplicated in 31 copies)
    • if you re-train a unit in in a settlement and this unit can be recruited as a mercenary in the same province, the recruit pool does not get depleted
    • console command (hence a script using it) disbanding units with this attribute will obviously disband all such unit (eg. destroy_units venice, mercenary_unit)


    Are there any other known effects?
    cheers
    JoC

  6. #206

    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    You don't have to specify textures for all 31 factions in bmdb, just the factions that can have a non-merc unit. You can also use info_pic_dir and card_pic_dir in EDU to specify the directory for the unit card and info image so you don't need any duplicates for those.

    I didn't know about this issue with the recruitment pool not depleting. That could be significant for scripts like this if you wanted to make militia or etc. "trainable" at forts in the same regions.

    The destroy_units command can take any unit attribute - nothing special about mercenary_unit as far as this is concerned.

    Missing from your list is the obvious effect of the mercenary_unit attribute that it allows the unit to be referenced in descr_mercenaries and thus show up in the mercenary recruitment scroll. It also, annoyingly, makes units show up in a new melee/ranged/siege ordered list at the end of the faction's list of units in custom battle.

  7. #207
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    You don't have to specify textures for all 31 factions in bmdb, just the factions that can have a non-merc unit. You can also use info_pic_dir and card_pic_dir in EDU to specify the directory for the unit card and info image so you don't need any duplicates for those.

    I didn't know about this issue with the recruitment pool not depleting. That could be significant for scripts like this if you wanted to make militia or etc. "trainable" at forts in the same regions.

    The destroy_units command can take any unit attribute - nothing special about mercenary_unit as far as this is concerned.

    Missing from your list is the obvious effect of the mercenary_unit attribute that it allows the unit to be referenced in descr_mercenaries and thus show up in the mercenary recruitment scroll. It also, annoyingly, makes units show up in a new melee/ranged/siege ordered list at the end of the faction's list of units in custom battle.
    textures - yes, I meant: for any faction you'd like the unit to be available to. But if I have a building that gives it to all the factions (de facto the units becomes an AoR unit, if the building is restricted to certain areas defined, eg. by hidden resources) then you need 31 entries, unit pics and unit cards.

    destroy_units - yes, indeed. In the SSHIP we've got a script for disbandment of the mercenary units based on this attribute so it's relevant for us.

    "it allows the unit to be referenced in descr_mercenaries" - I thought any unit can be referenced there and the problem would arise if a faction that doesn't have it in the list, tries to recruit them. So if you add the same unit to all 31 faction, then there'll be no problems with recruitment. What's more: the units recruited as mercenaries will be able to have different skins, icons, cards for each faction, if they're coded such.
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 14, 2021 at 02:21 AM.

  8. #208
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    textures - yes, I meant: for any faction you'd like the unit to be available to. But if I have a building that gives it to all the factions (de facto the units becomes an AoR unit, if the building is restricted to certain areas defined, eg. by hidden resources) then you need 31 entries, unit pics and unit cards.
    31 entries? Merc units have their own directory for unit cards/info in ui/units and ui/unit_info, called "mercs" (or maybe "merc", not sure now). If you put a unit card into it, it works for all the factions that recruit it afaik?

    BTW, also a good info prob is, that for unique general models the "merc" ownership in bmdb doesnt work, for those you have to write it for each faction afaik

  9. #209
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadli View Post
    31 entries? Merc units have their own directory for unit cards/info in ui/units and ui/unit_info, called "mercs" (or maybe "merc", not sure now). If you put a unit card into it, it works for all the factions that recruit it afaik?
    Exactly: the benefit of adding the attribute is you need to create just one card, icon, and (perhaps - I haven't dealt with it) entry in a file and models/textures etc. whatever is needed to have it in the tactical map.
    If you wouldn't like to have this attribute on a unit, you need to make it for each 31 factions.
    The other advantage might be that it can be used in the descr_mercenary.txt - but this is a new issue to me.

    The drawbacks of taking this shortcut are:
    - just one card / icon / model in the battle etc. playing all factions;
    - disbanding it with that command we use in the disbandment script irrespectively from the fact whether the unit was hired as mercenary or not (destroy_units venice, mercenary_unit)
    - the issue with replenishment pools.

  10. #210

    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I thought any unit can be referenced there and the problem would arise if a faction that doesn't have it in the list, tries to recruit them. So if you add the same unit to all 31 faction, then there'll be no problems with recruitment. What's more: the units recruited as mercenaries will be able to have different skins, icons, cards for each faction, if they're coded such.
    That's interesting. Then I guess there's really nothing special, or even desirable, about the mercenary_unit attribute other than that textures filed under "merc", cards under "mercs", and info images under "merc" and their being listed separately in custom battle. As I said before, you can use info_pic_dir and card_pic_dir to specify directories for both images so you don't need duplicates and without needing the mercenary_unit attribute.

    If mercenary recruitment works normally for units without the mercenary_unit attribute, I guess the real questions is: why use the mercenary_unit attribute for anything? I mean, avoiding duplicating bmdb texture entries hardly counts as a reason.

  11. #211
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Well, to use in the disbandment script?
    But I'm not 100% sure that you can have such units in the descr_mercenary, not sure.

  12. #212

    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    I tried using a unit without the mercenary_unit attribute in descr_mercenaries and was able to buy it as a mercenary normally just as you said. The info pics are faction-specific, coming from the buying faction's ui/unit_info/faction_name folder, but the unit cards don't work - it just shows the default Roman peasant. Interestingly, I made the same unit available to recruit normally from the settlement in the same region, and there, the faction-specific unit card shows up correctly. It's only in the mercenary recruitment scroll that it shows the Roman peasant. I tried putting a card in the ui/units/mercs folder, but this had no effect (presumably, the game only pulls from that folder when the unit has the mercenary_unit attribute). I then tried using card_pic_dir in EDU, and this does make the specified card show up in the mercenary recruitment scroll, but obviously this also affects regular recruitment as well, so it isn't desirable if the unit has different cards for different factions (which is the whole reason we're using non-mercenary_unit units as mercenaries in the first place).

    It's quite strange that the info pics are faction-specific for non-mercenary_unit mercenaries, but the card pics aren't. This must be the first case I've seen where info pics and cards behave differently.

  13. #213
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Callistonian View Post
    I tried using a unit without the mercenary_unit attribute in descr_mercenaries and was able to buy it as a mercenary normally just as you said. The info pics are faction-specific, coming from the buying faction's ui/unit_info/faction_name folder, but the unit cards don't work - it just shows the default Roman peasant. Interestingly, I made the same unit available to recruit normally from the settlement in the same region, and there, the faction-specific unit card shows up correctly. It's only in the mercenary recruitment scroll that it shows the Roman peasant. I tried putting a card in the ui/units/mercs folder, but this had no effect (presumably, the game only pulls from that folder when the unit has the mercenary_unit attribute). I then tried using card_pic_dir in EDU, and this does make the specified card show up in the mercenary recruitment scroll, but obviously this also affects regular recruitment as well, so it isn't desirable if the unit has different cards for different factions (which is the whole reason we're using non-mercenary_unit units as mercenaries in the first place).

    It's quite strange that the info pics are faction-specific for non-mercenary_unit mercenaries, but the card pics aren't. This must be the first case I've seen where info pics and cards behave differently.
    My take-away from this would be:
    - mercenary units: if the unit is supposed to be recruited as mercenary (from the land), then it's better give it the mercenary attribute and benefit from little work needed (one entry everywhere);
    - AoR units: if the unit is supposed to be available for all factions, is to be recruited only from a building, can have the same pic/card/battle dress, can be disbanded through the script (I understand that not all mods have such a script, but for me it's important) - also mercenary attribute (little work, and no drawback of the non-emptying recruitment pools);
    - units that are recruited from the buildings but also can be recruited from the land (descr_mercenaries.txt) - well, this is an inferior idea either way:
    --- you give the attribute then 1- one pic/card for everybody, 2+- disbandment script does work indiscriminately, 3- recruitment pools not emptying, 4+ less time-consuming;
    --- you don't give the attribute: A+ you need to define card in EDU and insert pics into all factions' folders so there'll be one card but the pics may vary, B+- disbandment doesn't work, C+ recruitment pools behave as they should, 4- more time consuming.

    The question is: if you define the card entry in the EDU, can you still have the pic (in the campaing/tactial maps) vary from faction to faction, and what's the impact on the tactical map - can you have different visuals in battle?
    Last edited by Jurand of Cracow; May 15, 2021 at 07:35 AM.

  14. #214

    Default Re: A Beginner's Guide to the Export_Descr_Unit

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
    you don't give the attribute: A+ you need to define card in EDU and insert pics into all factions' folders so there'll be one card but the pics may vary
    If you specify card_pic_dir in EDU, then you only need to include one card image in the specified faction's folder. Any cards included in other factions' folders won't do anything but take up space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
    B+- disbandment doesn't work
    Again, you can use any attribute to disband units, even custom attributes. There is no limit on the number of attributes that can be defined nor on how many individual units can have that I'm aware of. In fact, in most cases, I would think it would be better to disband a more tailored selection of units rather than all mercenary units (assuming the mercenary_unit attribute is being used in the conventional way).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
    C+ recruitment pools behave as they should
    This seems like an obvious benefit of not using the mercenary_unit attribute.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
    4- more time consuming.
    The mere seconds required to duplicate texture entries in bmdb is not a drawback but a feature of non-mercenary_unit mercenaries - they can use faction variations for battle map textures instead of being forced to use a single texture set for all factions. This is actually the main benefit of not using mercenary_unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow
    The question is: if you define the card entry in the EDU, can you still have the pic (in the campaing/tactial maps) vary from faction to faction, and what's the impact on the tactical map - can you have different visuals in battle?
    If you say: card_pic_dir england, then the game will use the card for the unit in england's folder. It doesn't matter what faction the unit belongs to on the campaign map or custom battle, they will use the UI from england's folder. It works the same way for info_pid_dir. So no, if you specify factions here, you obviously can't have variations from faction to faction. The card_pic_dir and info_pic_dir tags in EDU do not affect bmdb, so you can still have faction variations for battle map textures.

    Not using the mercenary_unit attribute allows mercenary units (recruited in descr_mercenaries) to have faction specific battle map textures, it allows them to have faction specific info pics, and it allows recruitment pools to behave normally for these units, and for these reasons (that we've found so far), it is superior to using the mercenary_unit attribute. The only problem that isn't solved by ditching the mercenary_unit attribute is the unit cards - we're apparently only allowed to have a single unit card for units trained in descr_mercenaries. You can use card_pic_dir to fix the Roman peasant, but you may as well use mercenary_unit attribute since you will only be able to have one card for all factions in either case. I suppose another approach would be to replace the Roman peasant with something more generic and just leave it so that you can still have faction-specific cards once the unit is recruited.

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