Obsession with Immortality

[Aetius]

What started as an appreciation of life has evolved over the years into studies in life extension, if not total immortality and transhumanism.

However I seem to be relatively alone in this interest of mine. Whenever I bring up the possibility with friends and family they think I am crazy (except for one of my friends) but I still continue to research and expand my knowledge in that area.

I am your average college student, arguably in my physical prime. Life is fine and all; I am on course to live like any normal person in a westernized country. People will say I shouldn’t be concerned with death; instead I should be enjoying my life and such. But life is too short for me, and I can’t see why others would disagree.

We are all slowly dying; personally within fifty years (it’s not as long as it sounds) my body will degenerate and my mental capacity will fade into a shadow of its former self. After this, as every non-religious person must confront the utter end. Your life is completely over, your consciousness stolen from you, and all who you are and were, all those years of life experience gone…. This is indeed the most horrible fate, and I see why religious immortality has such a comforting appeal. Instead putting faith in religion, why not instead bring our destiny under our own control with technology?

Yet for all that, this outcome facing all of us is not what drives me towards Immortality. Terror of Death is inconsequential to the fear of lost potential. I am internally driven with a strong desire to know and understand everything. I want more time to accomplish all my goals. I want to live far into the future and watch how the story of mankind unfolds. I want to answer all the unanswered questions. And yes, I can deal with watching everyone know and love die, we all eventually have to do practically that anyway.

~~

Now realistically speaking, pure immortality has not been achieved. There is no magical fountain of youth. Realistically though, humans have more than doubled their lifespan since the Stone Age. Life extension is the first step. It will take time but human technology is expanding at an ever increasing rate. Think of what has occurred in the last fifty years; imagine what the next fifty will bring…

There are seven types of aging damage that affect all of us. Some are close to be eradicated while others are more difficult;

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Cancer-causing nuclear mutations/epimutations: These are changes to the nuclear DNA (nDNA), the molecule that contains our genetic information, or to proteins which bind to the nDNA. Certain mutations can lead to cancer, and, according to de Grey, non-cancerous mutations and epimutations do not contribute to aging within a normal lifespan, so cancer is the only endpoint of these types of damage that must be addressed.
   
   
2. Mitochondrial mutations: Mitochondria are components in our cells that are important for energy production. They contain their own genetic material, and mutations to their DNA can affect a cell’s ability to function properly. Indirectly, these mutations may accelerate many aspects of aging.
   
3. Intracellular junk: Our cells are constantly breaking down proteins and other molecules that are no longer useful or which can be harmful. Those molecules which can’t be digested simply accumulate as junk inside our cells. Atherosclerosis, macular degeneration and all kinds of neurodegenerative diseases (such as Alzheimer's disease) are associated with this problem.
   
4. Extracellular junk: Harmful junk protein can also accumulate outside of our cells. The amyloid plaque seen in the brains of Alzheimer’s patients is one example.
   
5. Cell loss: Some of the cells in our bodies cannot be replaced, or can only be replaced very slowly - more slowly than they die. This decrease in cell number causes the heart to become weaker with age, and it also causes Parkinson's disease and impairs the immune system.
   
6. Cell senescence: This is a phenomenon where the cells are no longer able to divide, but also do not die and let others divide. They may also do other things that they’re not supposed to, like secreting proteins that could be harmful. Immune senescence and type 2 diabetes are caused by this.
   
7. Extracellular crosslinks: Cells are held together by special linking proteins. When too many cross-links form between cells in a tissue, the tissue can lose its elasticity and cause problems including arteriosclerosis and presbyopia.

As a result of this obsession of mine I have studied molecular biology, even going so far as to take these biology classes in college even though they are not related to my major and eventual career. I have read the scientific journals of Aubrey de Grey, and agree with most of his findings. Overall, this is not some obscure science; life extension is arguably the essence of the medical field.

And finally if this all fails there is one last remaining option for those of us like minds. That is Alcor Cryonics, where they freeze the body upon pronouncement of death in liquid nitrogen, thusly preserving the body without any cellular damage. This is done in the hope that in the future, humans will have discovered a way to restore life and consciousness to you.

Basic Information on Topics;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biologi...al_immortality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism

~~

How do you feel about this issue? Are you interested or can you relate at all? Does Transhumanism and/or Biological immortality appeal to you? Do you believe we will succeed in our lifetime?

[Bovril]

Its a sad enditement of our society that we are far more concerned with longer than with living well.

[Time Commander Bob]

I have often wondered whether the best way to achieve immortality is to not use the human body at all and instead put our consciousness into a machine where we could imagine vividly whatever we wanted and experience what we liked. Obviously, if we ever wanted to experience the physical world again we could "download" a person onto a robot.

Although this has many problems. Firstly, I'm assuming its fully possible as this will have major complications. Secondly, would we lose some of our humanity doing this? If it is possible to "download" someone's mind it would also be able to copy it and thus we would lose our individuality. I guess it doesn't matter at the present, its a long way off as we have to deal with bigger issues such as overpopulation, how to manage finite resources properly and how to create a better economic system that doesn't crash every so often.

[Aetius]

Its a sad enditement of our society that we are far more concerned with longer than with living well.

Why not have both? Live well and live longer.

Wouldn't the greatest achievement be to conquer death itself?

I have often wondered whether the best way to achieve immortality is to not use the human body at all and instead put our consciousness into a machine where we could imagine vividly whatever we wanted and experience what we liked. Obviously, if we ever wanted to experience the physical world again we could "download" a person onto a robot.

Although this has many problems. Firstly, I'm assuming its fully possible as this will have major complications. Secondly, would we lose some of our humanity doing this? If it is possible to "download" someone's mind it would also be able to copy it and thus we would lose our individuality. I guess it doesn't matter at the present, its a long way off as we have to deal with bigger issues such as overpopulation, how to manage finite resources properly and how to create a better economic system that doesn't crash every so often.

Yes without the senses the bain may panic, and you cannot truly live without your body. However an articifical reality could be created, but I am opposed to that sort of thing. Also, we don't have large enough hardrives or memory systems, not to mention a method to actually transfer it.

I want to experience the physical world, not roam forever in a digital plane.

[Amorphos]

the best part of our lives are very short, you leave collage then once you hit 40 it is as if life ends to some degree, it certainly feels like that. it doesn’t but you enter a second life, one where babes and breading are not paramount ~ more nuturing. to be honest i don’t want life to be longer, but i would like youth to be longer i.e. look young for longer, to have a good working brain for much longer than we do.

this has its ethical problems, if we all live longer we may have two families in one life and use up more resources etc.

i think it far more important to concern ourselves with the after-life than this life. i don’t care if our destiny is oblivion, but i want to know either way if it is possible, and i think it is. people are just stuck in reason and don’t wish to look beyond it, we see programs on telly all the time showing that everything spiritual is not etc. personally i think they are missing the finer element of it all, almost to the degree that there is an atheists conspiracy [not literally, i just say this to highlight how i see it] ~ i mean it just seams so strange that they know all this stuff then seemingly hide from what it shows reality to be.

it is not just religion which is wearing blinkers!

[familyguy1]

Make your life enjoyable!!. If people are too obsessed with Immortality then that means your life is not that enjoyable. Make it enjoyable, spend time with people 'Live out your life' as you want to. Grow old, but do it your way!

To live a long life, people need to live a happy and well life.

[Bovril]

Why not have both? Live well and live longer.

Possibly, but without the former, the later is pretty meaningless.

Wouldn't the greatest achievement be to conquer death itself?

No, the greatest achievement is to conquer life.

lol, what about that for an trite soundbite.

[MET]

You really want to live forever? That is an awfull lot of time you know. Even though I won't denie te fact that 70 years isn't that long at all. But I suppose we shouldn't be clinging on to life to much. Eventually you will die. And it's probably best to get over with it.

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

Immortality is a subject that is well known by the people of my planet. My Lord Feloric is an immortal being like many before him. The Chronicle Of The Wolf, the central guide for all the knowlegde our society possesses, has a chapter on it.

Here is a brief summary:

Immortality is to posses the ability to be immune to disease and old age. Immortals can be killed by another being, excluding bacteria and other microoganisms. The longer one is immortal the more they lose their physical being. From the inside out their body is being replaced by pure spiritual energy, once an immortal is fully spiritual they may ascend to the afterlife at their will.

Interesting fact, your skeleton is the last to be replaced by spiritual energy. An immortal may chose not to wait for their skeleton, so they leave it behind. This gives them the ability to "shapeshift" but they lose any definite shape and spend most of their time as an indistinguishable blob.

To become immortal one must train their knowledge or strength to the point where they reach the transition stage. At the transition stage the subject gains more knowledge or strength at a rapid rate until both strength and knowledge are even. For example, a warrior who reaches the transition stage will start gaining knowledge at a rapid rate, once their knowledge of the universe equals their skills on the battlefield they will become an immortal.

Strength and knowledge are somewhat general terms. But everyone can fit into one of those categories. Generals, soldiers, athletes, and physical laborers fall under strength, while diplomats, scientists, philosophers, clergymen, and even bookkeepers can fall under knowledge.

As a side note I would like to add that no living being can live long enough to keep strength and knowledge in balance and reach immortality. The only way is to train one skill and make up the other in the transition stage.
__________________________________

I have noticed something strange on my time here on Earth. No Human (as far as anyone knows) has ever been able to reach immortality. My hypothesis is Humans don't have the physical capabilities to reach the transition stage through strength, and, of course, there is not enough knowledge to be had to reach immortality through knowledge.

[Dayman]

the best part of our lives are very short, you leave collage then once you hit 40 it is as if life ends to some degree, it certainly feels like that.

Only if you let it.

To me this is nearly all a matter of your perspective on life. It was once that 40 was old, now 40 is middle aged. Old age is being pushed back, from the 60s, to the 70s. I imagine my generation is may be the 80s are seen as the onset of old age. Optimistically only a few more generations will have an average lifespan in the double digits. It seems though, the popular consensus on what is "old" lags behind the science (probably due to growing up and those considered old were younger, for baby boomers that might be a 40-50 year old. I see someone in their late 60s as old). There are still people who think once they hit 40 they're old, in the western world an outdated idea.

[The Dude]

Nothing.

Lasts.

Forever.

Simple as that. Remember these three words and you'll find that any quest for immortality is foolhardy. You wish to watch the story of mankind unfold? That will only happen if you survive mankind. You won't. And you wouldn't want to either.

[Cluny the Scourge]

Go ahead and be as obsessed with it as you like - you are still doomed. You're going to die in a hospital bed in a pile of your own faecal matter, surrounded by loved ones you're no longer even able to recognise, your mind and body so rotted that every moment feels like a lifetime of anguish. That is the human condition.

[Aetius]

Go ahead and be as obsessed with it as you like - you are still doomed. You're going to die in a hospital bed in a pile of your own faecal matter, surrounded by loved ones you're no longer even able to recognise, your mind and body so rotted that every moment feels like a lifetime of anguish. That is the human condition.

[Amorphos]

boeing

There are still people who think once they hit 40 they’re old, in the western world an outdated idea.

i agree entirely, i don’t think many in society does though e.g. unless you are a famous actor or pop star people will think you are odd even evil if you go out with an 18 yr old at 40 [or even 30 will be questioned in my experience]. it is things like that which make you feel you belong to a different set, things are changing though, i don’t think we are so tied to being ‘what we are’ any more, like i remember when a dad was a dad, and a grandad a grandad ~ they even used to act like it. the persona's of age are fading with the labels.

LFA

Immortality is to posses the ability to be immune to disease and old age. Immortals can be killed by another being, excluding bacteria and other microoganisms.

are bacteria not other beings in a manner? i would think that immortality can only mean that one cannot die. when you think about it this is true about all of us...

if we have no soul/spirit etc, then we don’t exist and hence cannot die.
if we do then that part of us is not physical and hence doesn’t suffer death.

this may not be true though, we may have a soul which upon death enters the light which just so happens to be the mouth of an alien soul eater. [alien here means not of this universe rather than world.].

dude.

nothing lasts forever, so buddhists become immortal when the enter nirvana?

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

LFA



are bacteria not other beings in a manner? i would think that immortality can only mean that one cannot die. when you think about it this is true about all of us...

if we have no soul/spirit etc, then we don’t exist and hence cannot die.
if we do then that part of us is not physical and hence doesn’t suffer death.

this may not be true though, we may have a soul which upon death enters the light which just so happens to be the mouth of an alien soul eater. [alien here means not of this universe rather than world.].

In a way you are correct. The Chronicle Of The Wolf does acknowledge that all beings become immortal after death. But if one were to become immortal through death they would not be able to return to the mortal universe. To become an immortal through the skills of strength or knowledge would allow one to have all the abilities of an immortal but still being able to directly interect with mortals.

The key ability of an immortal (besides having a massive amount of knowledge and strength) is the ability to see time and space differently. My Lord can communicate with me at the same time as he commands an army in battle. My Lord can watch the American economy collapse at the same time as he views President Obama's first four years in the White House.

If you were an immortal in the afterlife, all the immortals around you would also have this ability, giving you no advantage. However, an immortal in the mortal universe (such as my Lord) gives him an unprecedented advantage over mortals who view time and space as a straight line.

So while you can argue everyone is (or can be) an immortal in a sense, our findings have found different results.

[Zephyrus]

Go ahead and be as obsessed with it as you like - you are still doomed. You're going to die in a hospital bed in a pile of your own faecal matter, surrounded by loved ones you're no longer even able to recognise, your mind and body so rotted that every moment feels like a lifetime of anguish. That is the human condition.

Cluny, your words flow directly out of the Fountain of Joy itself, don't they?

[Bovril]

That scenario is more the product of very recent advances in life prelonging medicine than the human condition.

[Chaigidel]

you as a life form are not meant to live long, yet the urge is within you because you feel the Echo of immortality from god; that echo is all that allows existence, and you are immortal in a sense already, yet you are blessed with forgetfulness, and have the rare gift of one life, one existence--- its an honored place; and like any father with his children, god sought to give us what it could not have, and that is life and death, and all the beauty that comes with it.

while your father suffers eternal existence all things are rendered meaningless, the vastness of the eternal whirl, nothing more than shadows flickering past its shattered mind.
enduring all our lives as we do, only without the luxury of death.

You do not want to be immortal, and be very wary of what you request from this place, this universe responds to you, and god have mercy if you are granted immortality.

otherwise yes I would think life could remain tremandously interesting for another 50-100 years past the first 100-- and as it is meant to occur our lives will indeed approach these extremes, perhaps, one can never really tell with us.

[Lord Feloric's Ambassador]

Indeed Mr. Chaigidel has a point, not all individuals can handle immortality. To be a successful immortal you need to maintain a perfect balance within your mind, body, and soul as well as some sort of goal to work towards. One cannot survive the stresses of immortality by aimlessly wandering through time and space.

[boofhead]

Immortality is overrated.

I know a darling old 94 year-old. Lovely woman. Near blind, can hardly walk. She tells me she has had enough and is ready to die, and feels as though she has lived for a very long time.

Heck, I feel like I've lived quite a long time, and I'm a mere infant compared to her, at 37. If death came a knockin' in the next few weeks or months, well boohoo, poor me. When you think of all those kids who die of starvation or disease before the age of 6. I've had a better run than many in this world, so I'll cop it sweet.

I like what Timothy Leary said when he was dying - that he was excited about it. And it is kind of exciting in a way......it's the ultimate unknown, and we all get to know it in the end.

Another thing: generally the older you get, the more people you know who have died, and some of them will be younger than you.....as it's something we all have to go through at some point...and I think that makes it an easy concept to accept...it can't be so bad. Bring it on Grim Reaper, whenever you're ready.