Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,741

    Default Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    I think it was lost in the shuffle, but one of Obama's campaign promises was that his administration would stop the development of nuclear weapons. He appears to be making good on that promise...



    "The latest U.S. nuclear showdown doesn't involve any foreign enemy. Instead, it pits President Barack Obama against his Defense Secretary, Robert Gates, and concerns the question of whether America needs a new generation of nuclear warheads.

    While serving under former President Bush, Gates had repeatedly called for the Reliable Replacement Warhead (RRW) program to be put into operation, because the nation's current nukes — mostly produced in the 1970s and 1980s — are growing so old that their destructive power may be in question.

    "The Reliable Replacement Warhead is not about new capabilities, but about safety, reliability and security," Gates said in a speech in the week before last November's election. And in an article in the current issue of Foreign Affairs, released in early December after Gates had been tapped by Obama to stay on at the Pentagon, Gates repeated that refrain. "Even though the days of hair-trigger superpower confrontation are over, as long as other nations possess the bomb and the means to deliver it, the United States must maintain a credible strategic deterrent," he wrote. "Congress needs to do its part by funding the Reliable Replacement Warhead Program — for safety, for security, and for a more reliable deterrent."

    The RRW basically trades away explosive force for greater assurance that the new warheads would work predictably in the absence of tests, which the U.S. has refrained from conducting for nearly two decades to help advance non-proliferation goals. (View graphics of the global nuclear arms balance)

    But Obama doesn't buy that logic. Shortly after taking the oath of office on Tuesday, he turned what had been a campaign promise into an official presidential commitment: The new Administration "will stop the development of new nuclear weapons," the White House declared flatly on its website, with no equivocation, asterisks or caveats.

    Obama and Gates are "at loggerheads on this," says Michael O'Hanlon, a military expert at the Brookings Institution who has specialized in nuclear issues. A senior Pentagon official said that discussing any resolution is "premature", because he doesn't believe Gates and Obama have discussed the matter.

    The plutonium pit of a nuclear weapon — the heart of its extraordinary power — suffers radioactive decay, losing power and building up impurities, over time. Built with precise tolerances, there is concern that aging pits may fail to detonate properly, or perhaps at all.

    O'Hanlon and other nuclear thinkers have suggested retooling existing weapons to improve reliability as an option. But the Energy Department's National Nuclear Security Administration, which develops America's nuclear weapons, has said it cannot meet the goals set for the RRW program by modifying existing weapons. Obama's position has backing in Congress, which has repeatedly refused to fund the program.

    Obama would have a difficult time reversing course on what is now a stated policy of his Administration rather than simply a campaign promise. And any move to produce new U.S. nuclear weapons will also be read in other nations as a new American push for nuclear supremacy even as Washington urges the rest of the world — Tehran, are you listening? — to do without them. Russia would very likely respond by upgrading its own arsenal.

    But Gates argues that building a new generation of more reliable nuclear warheads would give the U.S. the confidence to shrink its overall nuclear arsenal. After all, if you have only a 50 percent level of confidence that a nuclear weapon is going to perform as advertised, you need twice as many. The U.S., under a self-imposed moratorium, has not conducted nuclear tests to assure the reliability and potency of its weapons since 1992. But it does spend more than $5 billion a year conducting analyses and computerized tests to monitor the health of the weapons. (The RRW program is estimated to cost at least $100 billion).

    Military officers have also expressed concern over relying on the aging atomic arsenal. (Skeptics note that U.S. policy tends to embrace the notion that all nuclear weapons possessed by adversaries would work, while those possessed by the U.S. won't.) "The path of inaction is a path leading toward nuclear disarmament," Air Force General Kevin Chilton, head of the U.S. Strategic Command, warned last month. "The time to act is now."

    Nuclear weapons have tended to prevent or contain conflicts between those nations that possess them. Today's nuclear nightmare tends to focus less on a doomsday exchange with similarly armed rival states, than on the nightmare of "loose nukes" falling into the hands of terrorists unaligned with any state and therefore beyond the reach of deterrence. A new batch of nuclear weapons, unfortunately, isn't going to change that."


    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...873887,00.html
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  2. #2
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Right behind you starring over your shoulder.
    Posts
    31,638

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Not a pressing issue.

    I don't Russia is waiting till we only have enough nukes to kill 99% of their population before invading Eastern Europe.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  3. #3

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    I think this is one issue Obama will have to bend a bit on. Non-proliferation is a great cause however, a nuclear deterrent loses its teeth when the weapons themselves come into question. Just because the US and its allies are on good terms with the majority of the worlds nuclear powers doesn't mean that will be the case in the future.

  4. #4
    Hansa's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Bergen
    Posts
    1,707

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Yes I can picture it now, Kim Jong-Il calls Ahmadinejad on the Axis of Evil hotline:

    -Dear evil ally,hellbent on world destruction. Lets attack the great Satan of freedom and democracy; the USA right now. Their nuclear strike capacity is questionable, some of their nukes might not work properly, they no longer have the capacity to wipe our countries out a 1000 times over, only approximately 700 times, or so a US intelligence report says, muhahahahahaha! Evil wins!!!

    Relax, and stop worrying.
    GEIR HASUND!

    By the way, though my avatar might indicate so, I am not a citizen of Germany, though my ancestry have a branch in this great nation.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansa View Post
    Yes I can picture it now, Kim Jong-Il calls Ahmadinejad on the Axis of Evil hotline:

    -Dear evil ally,hellbent on world destruction. Lets attack the great Satan of freedom and democracy; the USA right now. Their nuclear strike capacity is questionable, some of their nukes might not work properly, they no longer have the capacity to wipe our countries out a 1000 times over, only approximately 700 times, or so a US intelligence report says, muhahahahahaha! Evil wins!!!

    Relax, and stop worrying.
    I'm not talking about a year from now or 5 years form now. What about 15 years from now? Or 20? The Us nuclear arsenal is even further diminished. This sort of action as long term goals in mind. Not sort term. Too many look short term and say, "meh, there are no nuclear threats, just get rid of our nuclear weapons all together."

  6. #6

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Obama, if he's going to resist the temptation to spend lots and lots of money on new nukes, does need to use diplomacy as well as non-proliferation.
    I can't imagine the American public accepting this move let alone any move towards disarmament when Russia, Pakistan, maybe N. Korea etc. still have nucleur weapons and the like.


  7. #7
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Stockholm, Sverige
    Posts
    22,877

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    I'm not talking about a year from now or 5 years form now. What about 15 years from now? Or 20? The Us nuclear arsenal is even further diminished. This sort of action as long term goals in mind. Not sort term. Too many look short term and say, "meh, there are no nuclear threats, just get rid of our nuclear weapons all together."
    I don't think we need to worry about other nations, I cant foresee any scenario in the future where any nation would launch a nuke at another nation. The fear now is that a terrorist organization will seek to detonate a nuke on their own, instead of a nation launching a nuke and facing a retaliation strike.


    With that said I think we should fear alien invaders because definitely we need those nukes to launch into space and blow to hell those alien invaders. Or use the nukes to repel asteroids and other space objects.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Not the most pressing issue, where's the enemy??

    Russia's nuclear arsenal has always been a shoddy pile of missiles, half of them out of order to begin with. And that was at the end of the Cold War....... Would be surprised if they get 10 working these days.

    China, not a threat at all. Let alone the rest of the nuclear states.

    Iran -you just need to hack Khamenei's computer and remove his illegal copy of photo shop from his computer, that will solve that missile threat

    Against Al Qa'ida or any other terror groups they will prove useless: who are you going to nuke back when attacked? Afghanistan, Islamabad?

    Any step towards nuclear disarmament is to be cheered. Makes the possibilty of other countries deciding to get nukes smaller.

  9. #9
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    16,026

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    I'm not talking about a year from now or 5 years form now. What about 15 years from now? Or 20? The Us nuclear arsenal is even further diminished. This sort of action as long term goals in mind. Not sort term. Too many look short term and say, "meh, there are no nuclear threats, just get rid of our nuclear weapons all together."
    There is a huge hanging if you are ignoring…

    ‘(Skeptics note that U.S. policy tends to embrace the notion that all nuclear weapons possessed by adversaries would work, while those possessed by the U.S. won't.)’

    So what’s the average age of the Russian arsenal? How often are the Chinese upgrading their nukes – which if I’m not mistaken are still heavily dependent on missiles that cannot be launched at moments notice and can only reach part of the US? As for North Korea or Iran their arsenals are mostly smoke and mirrors as far as I can tell no one is even certain how successful the Korean bomb test was and their missiles have had a checkered record.

    Given that the US is stuck fighting two wars and the bottom is falling out of our economy I think we have some bigger fish to fry.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #10
    Protector Domesticus
    Citizen

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    4,045

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Neutron flux density for America's nuclear warheads won't really become an issue for another 20 years or so to be honest.

    Most of the warheads the RRW Program is intended to replace are in the Hedge Stockpile anyway, not those that are locked, stocked, and ready to fire.

  11. #11
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    16,504

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelius View Post
    Neutron flux density for America's nuclear warheads won't really become an issue for another 20 years or so to be honest.
    But if 1.21 Gigawatts are applied here we are gonna see some serious shiz.




  12. #12

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    But if 1.21 Gigawatts are applied here we are gonna see some serious shiz.


    I think it's be safe to make a compromise. Make a small arsenal of new weapons, and then dismantle all of the old ones.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  13. #13
    Hunter Makoy's Avatar We got 2 words for ya..
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Dont mess with Texas
    Posts
    5,202

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    But if 1.21 Gigawatts are applied here we are gonna see some serious shiz.
    i think you mean Jigawatts, right Doc?
    Under the patronage of Lord Condormanius (12.29.08)
    "Yes, I know why the leaf is turning yellow. Its a lack of chloroform."

  14. #14
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    16,504

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Makoy View Post
    i think you mean Jigawatts, right Doc?
    Great Scott, i think you're right. We can only get this kinda power from a bolt of lightning.

    A bolt of lightning.




  15. #15
    Hotspur's Avatar I've got reach.
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Charlotte
    Posts
    11,982

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Given that the US is stuck fighting two wars and the bottom is falling out of our economy I think we have some bigger fish to fry.
    This.

    Fix what's broken first, then start on improvements.

  16. #16
    OccamR's Avatar Centenarius
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    U of I
    Posts
    874

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Maybe we can say we have them when we don't.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

  17. #17
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    5,424

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    This is bad imo. What will happen in another 10-15 years when our weapons are severely outdated? China, Russia, and Iran will be much more comfortable with flexing their muscles without the U.S.'s deterrent.


  18. #18

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by CtrlAltDe1337 View Post
    This is bad imo. What will happen in another 10-15 years when our weapons are severely outdated? China, Russia, and Iran will be much more comfortable with flexing their muscles without the U.S.'s deterrent.
    No kidding. It seems obama likes to talk like hes god and will make everything perfect on the campaign trail, but when he get's in office and get's the intelligence briefing he finds out it's a different world..


  19. #19

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    If there is no Nukes, then what is there to stop another major conflict like the ones seen in Europe in the last few hundred years?
    Surely the modern superpowers wont ever fight if they know that it could result in the end of the world, if that threat is removed, what is going to be the barrier?

  20. #20
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    15,874

    Default Re: Obama vs Gates on Nuclear Weapons

    This is bad imo. What will happen in another 10-15 years when our weapons are severely outdated? China, Russia, and Iran will be much more comfortable with flexing their muscles without the U.S.'s deterrent.
    Then perhaps in 15 years we should think about building/replacing our nukes; but when they aren't expected to be inoperable for another 20 - it isn't a pressing concern. Thats like worrying about our new aircraft carrier being obsolete 40 years down the line and building the replacement now.
    "For the humble doily is indeed the gateway to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER!"

    ~Sidmen, Member of the House of Wilpuri, Patronized by pannonian

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •