Religion as a tool to escape depression.

[Kiljaden]

I am not trying to argue for or against the truth or falsehood of religion in this thread. However, it is worth mentioning that the nature of religion is such that one cannot know whether one's religious beliefs are true. Instead, a religious person believes and has faith.

My argument is as follows: Religion is commonly used as a method by which to obtain self-esteem (ex. I am a child of God) or meaning (ex. There is a greater purpose of which I am a part). If someone is having a bout with depression, there can be unintended negative side effects in using religion to escape it.

If the person who uses religion in this way, and at some point discovers that their religious beliefs, whatever they are, are most likely to be false, then the entire foundation of why they are not depressed is shattered and will most likely result in receding back into depression if they accept their discovery. Knowing this, the believer must create thinking errors to rationalize their discovery away and close their mind to the possibility that their beliefs are not true.

The end result is that the person has unintentionally trapped themselves in a belief they know in the back of their mind probably isn't true in the first place. Therefore, it is beneficial for people, no matter the degree of one's religious conviction, to find meaning, purpose, and self-esteem from sources other than religion - especially if their happiness is dependent upon their beliefs.

[Dunecat]

Christianity is not always considered a proof for God.

Some people's "faith" is a living, breathing manifestation (Not incarnation, lol) of Christ . Not a logical ontological argument or self-delusion (though it could be said that is many times or mostly the case).

So I'm agreeing with you but I'm not.

[Chaigidel]

kiljadean your concept fails in the case of religions which offer no real " hope " in either direction, like buddhism, some sects of christianity, judaism, etc.

basically another poorly constructed excercise in self adulation .Off-Topic.Noble Savage

[bthizle1]

kiljadean your concept fails in the case of religions which offer no real " hope " in either direction, like buddhism, some sects of christianity, judaism, etc.

Nobody truly knows what the world is, we only have a general ideal...even then we've constructed our "ideals" of what "is" around a bases of labels rather than allowing for whatever "it" is to represent its self.

And if you don't mind me asking, what gives you the right to label this thread as

basically another poorly constructed excercise in self adulation by a child who thinks he knows what the world is.

I've heard you're "labeling" of the the many happenings of this world time and time again, and they are usually far more off kilter that what Kiljaden is trying to state.

Edit:
As far as religion and depression goes....I could definetely see a correlation between one discovering the likelihood of their religion being false and thereafter feelings of depression. However religion is also like a prescription for depression, in the sense that it gives someone a hope in something greater than that of which depresses them in the first place. So it could pretty much be said to either act as an ailment upon discovery or the opposite, either way they are both most likely just matters of the mind.

[Kiljaden]

Chaig, I've heard more intellectually bereft things, usually in the form of incoherent red herrings, come from your mouth than anyone else's on this forum - and that says a lot.

My entire premise obviously falls on the fact that someone first uses religion as a tool to escape depression or gain self-esteem and self-worth. Either your entire goal is to create red herrings or you simply read only the words you want to see.

My argument is as follows: Religion is commonly used as a method by which to obtain self-esteem (ex. I am a child of God) or meaning (ex. There is a greater purpose of which I am a part). If someone is having a bout with depression, there can be unintended negative side effects in using religion to escape it.

[Da Skinna]

I wrote an article a long time ago about reconciling faith and depression.

Faith is an instilmint of purpose, and a sense of purpose will always oust feelings of depression.

I have a thing from it here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How do you reconcile faith and hope with despair and gloom? With faith and hope, we look upwards, onwards, and forward, we look to what can be, we look at what is and ask why not? With despair, with depression, we look back, we let doubts creep inside, hide in the corners of our mind, and let them cultivate fears that gnaw, gnaw and nibble, not only at our self-image, but at our ability to think clearly, and think in the forward manner we all want and desire.

Despair poisons our lives, and we wallow in a status quo we are too afraid to change, and many times we barely even acknowledge the provenance of our depression, but only see its future. The future of depression is depression because all we see is despair. The light in our worlds is only gray, and gloomy. There reside dark clouds even in a cloudless sky, teasing and haunting but entirely not there. We only think they’re there. It is that powerful.

Faith and hope are synonymous I think, they convey the same basic message: that our future can turn for the better. That somewhere, somehow, something will lift us up, part the clouds, and finally, the sun that berates and beats down on our lives, forcing us underground, inside, will now shine through. Into our homes, and our hearts, once black and hollow and without any feeling but anguish, will finally melt away. Warmth, happiness, and some kind of succinct harmony replaces it. It should. It is our life, and it should never be clouded with misery. These are our lives and they should be full of happiness and wonder, awe and love.

[Bovril]

Faith is an instilmint of purpose, and a sense of purpose will always oust feelings of depression.

Not so. Often depression is accompanied by a maladaptive sense of purpose, or the feeling that a given prpose is unatainable. Indeed, slavish devotion to a particular goal can bring on depression.

A good example of the interaction between religion and mental health not working out is Luther.

[Hippolord]

Religion has close to nothing to do with depression if you find yourself in depression over the new found falsehood of your faith then obviously you where never very faithful in the first place or your a shame to your said religion.

I for one have never had to deal with depression very much so might be speaking from a point of lack of experiance. But my faith has never led me into depression and i fail to see one that might lead you deeper into it. Now I know you said that people might be trapped in a spiral of depression do to there knowledge that there faith can't be true. If you have come to the point that you know on your own that your faith isnt true then that is no faith to me. And i suggest that you find a new foud faith that better fits what you need and how you see the world. Don't let yourself be depressed over the fact that you were wrong or in your faith for the wrong reasons.

True faith will never lead to depression.

[chamaeleo]

Religion has close to nothing to do with depression if you find yourself in depression over the new found falsehood of your faith then obviously you where never very faithful in the first place or your a shame to your said religion.

I for one have never had to deal with depression very much so might be speaking from a point of lack of experiance. But my faith has never led me into depression and i fail to see one that might lead you deeper into it. Now I know you said that people might be trapped in a spiral of depression do to there knowledge that there faith can't be true. If you have come to the point that you know on your own that your faith isnt true then that is no faith to me. And i suggest that you find a new foud faith that better fits what you need and how you see the world. Don't let yourself be depressed over the fact that you were wrong or in your faith for the wrong reasons.

True faith will never lead to depression.

Ironically, you're helping the OP's case. He's gonna reply that in your case the tool has worked.

Religion is used for many different things. Escaping depression? I'm sure, but as a side effect...a truly depressed person will sleep through Sunday morning, eschewing Church. I'd guess more use booze, realize it's not working after scraping bottom, join AA, and are reborn as less-depressed Christians.

[Hippolord]

Ironically, you're helping the OP's case. He's gonna reply that in your case the tool has worked.

Religion is used for many different things. Escaping depression? I'm sure, but as a side effect...a truly depressed person will sleep through Sunday morning, eschewing Church. I'd guess more use booze, realize it's not working after scraping bottom, join AA, and are reborn as less-depressed Christians.

I guess what im trying to say in basic is that trully faithful people just wont really experiance thses problems all to often. This is not to say they wont just not as often i guess lol. I do kinda see your point though, but like i said im not speaking from a point of view that is experianced in depression matters.

[Kiljaden]

Right. I don't deny that many religious faiths can bring you out of depression, but is it worth it to know that your whole reason to not be depressed is the result of a belief you can't know is true and may find out is most likely to be false? Again, it's not the truth or falsehood I care about here, it's people trapping themselves in religious unintentionally, and arguably this is a tool so often used by people who want you be religious.

As a side note, religion is by far not the only thing that can bring you out of depression, or give you meaning, or purpose, or anything.

[MaximiIian]

Though there are, obviously, exceptions to the concept, it is a mostly correct observation to note a correlation between religion and non-depression. Not to say that lack of religion correlates to depression, of course. Just that, historically, religiosity has often, but of course not always, increased in times of crisis and catastrophe.

[finsternis]

I must disagree with you. If a person is to lose their faith (which can take years) they usually replace it with something else (another faith, science, philosophy, etc). The new belief/fact will not let the person fall into depression (if it does, then the person wouldn't have changed the belief since the new one would have seem like nonsense.

It is possible that the person thinks that the new belief is nonsense, but then, 4 years later, the person is convinced that the new belief is not nonsense and that produces a sense of "happiness" (notice the quotation marks) since they are now "right".

...or at least that's what I have noticed (in other people and personally).

[Bovril]

If the person who uses religion in this way, and at some point discovers that their religious beliefs, whatever they are, are most likely to be false, then the entire foundation of why they are not depressed is shattered and will most likely result in receding back into depression if they accept their discovery. Knowing this, the believer must create thinking errors to rationalize their discovery away and close their mind to the possibility that their beliefs are not true.

Maybe, maybe not. Since depression is not simply a psychological state and since psychological states are dynamic, it may well be that even if religion was part of the recovery process, it's persistence is not necessary in preventing relapse. But I'm sure it'll vary from person to person.

[Chaigidel]

@kiljadean, monkeys rarely understand the musings of the scientists who study them, this does not make what the scientist says around the monkey senseless, only it is a realm of understanding beyond the monkey-- this is just an example, but the variations on the theme are endless, but I do not require validation for my intellect.

this post like many other posters here, is a direct projection of your own childlike view of religion, a view that is mirrored by many unthinking people; but anything that keeps you from thinking ; is probably for the best, in certain cases anyway.--- you just want to lash out at something you think you can win against, but the worl will reveal to you in time, your true place in the dream.

[Playfishpaste]

Religion is often used as a tool to escape depression, I don't know how anyone can argue it's not. It seems a very logical method, like getting a hobby or falling in love or aquiring a new passion for an art.

I can't see why anyone wouldn't consider it a viable conduit for those who are depressed. However, this has nothing to do with it's intentions. Or what it means. Or it's validity.

[C-Rob]

well, when I read the title of this thread I said, "true"

Then I read the post and had to say, "true"

Thre are some who find their only purpose in life is within their religious convictions and might not be able to support themselves if their support went away, somehow. But this goes for any delusion. The point of if it's a truth is irrelevant.

[Barack Hussein Obama]

In my case there was a religious tool that brought me great depression:

[Chaigidel]

1. the topic is childish there is no arguement there
2. you could easily be the scientist, it is your perception which placed you in the part of monkey

report me, plenty of people have and plenty will in the future, it bothers me little

religion does not allow one to escape depression any more than doing drugs allows one to escape depression; it is a false question meant to pad your own perceptions rather than the noble ideals you claim in your last post.

there is no need to refute your question, because its absolutely wrong, and based on your personal hatreds and bigotry rather than any factual reason.

[Dunecat]

I am not trying to argue for or against the truth or falsehood of religion in this thread. However, it is worth mentioning that the nature of religion is such that one cannot know whether one's religious beliefs are true. Instead, a religious person believes and has faith.

LOL, this thread is a joke.

You prevent us from presenting opposing viewpoints to this statement, calling it trolling, and yet also claim we have given no answers. We have clearly stated you assume to much, and are blinded by a western european perspective.

You're trolling your own thread, babes.