If Done Right, How Does Communism Work?

[ccllnply]

It might seem like a strange question, but there is no example of a it to good by. I can't really imagine how it would work. All assets are owned by the state and the money is shared, so how does that work? Do people still work at their normal jobs or is there some sort of conscription to work on local and national projects? Can anyone explain this please?

[Kiljan Arslan]

if humans stopped being greedy it works but good luck having that happen.

[Djûn]

if humans stopped being greedy it works but good luck having that happen.

It also runs into problems with economic inefficiency and lack of enterprise.

As for the OP, I am not claiming to be completely in the know with Communism, and I am sure that there are far more able people than I to answer this, but from my basic understanding there are two fundamental points:
-The State owns all property and distributes it evenly amongst the people.
-In return the people work equally at a job which is provided to them by the State. Ideally people are assigned jobs based on their merits.

[Von Reichgraf]

It also runs into problems with economic inefficiency and lack of enterprise.

As for the OP, I am not claiming to be completely in the know with Communism, and I am sure that there are far more able people than I to answer this, but from my basic understanding there are two fundamental points:
-The State owns all property and distributes it evenly amongst the people.
-In return the people work equally at a job which is provided to them by the State. Ideally people are assigned jobs based on their merits.

technically in a total communist society there would be no state to control and distribute the recources. Means of production would be controlled by the workers, who would all have ownership and a say in the usage of wealth and recources. Ideal communism is basically a total democracy.

The problematic lacking will of enterprise is a misrepresentation of the idea of ditribution of wealth. higher education would still mean higher paying jobs, just not in the 'millions of dollars' salary range. Same with the problem of inefficiency, which is an effect more of strict, centralized plan-economy rather than communism in itself.

Traditional "communist" nations such as the soviet union, China and Cuba have all been a consortium of socialist, authoritarian and various other policies and have all been poor representations of the brand given to them.

As Kiljan said though, human nature pretty much guarantees that implentation of communism becomes frustrating or entirely impossible beyond what some of the more lefty european have today.

[Djûn]

technically in a total communist society there would be no state to control and distribute the recources. Means of production would be controlled by the workers, who would all have ownership and a say in the usage of wealth and recources. Ideal communism is basically a total democracy.

I stand thoroughly corrected, assuming this is correct -Thanks! ^.^

The problematic lacking will of enterprise is a misrepresentation of the idea of ditribution of wealth. higher education would still mean higher paying jobs, just not in the 'millions of dollars' salary range. Same with the problem of inefficiency, which is an effect more of strict, centralized plan-economy rather than communism in itself.

What system does a Communist State use if not centralised planning? Out of interest.

[Dromikaites]

Living in a communist country till I was 20 I had to study various aspects of the communist theory (and we had term papers to pass so they were checking if we've actually read that bull). Therefore the answers below are based on the communist theory implemented in Eastern Europe (Lenin & Stalin version). China had a Lenin & Mao version while North Korea a Lenin & Stalin one.

It might seem like a strange question, but there is no example of a it to good by. I can't really imagine how it would work. All assets are owned by the state and the money is shared, so how does that work? Do people still work at their normal jobs or is there some sort of conscription to work on local and national projects? Can anyone explain this please?

In a truly communist state everybody would work to the best of his/her abilities and would receive whatever he/she needs. Money would not be necessary: any citizen would go to the shop and pick from there whatever would be needed.

None of the so-called communist countries was communist because people got payed and they needed to pay for products and some of the services (other services like education at all levels or medical assistance were free). the official explanation was the economy and technology were not developed enough to allow everything to be produced in sufficient quantities that everybody could get what was needed for free.

The first part of the equation ("to work to one's best abilities") was never discussed much. The communists never saw the people's character flaws as obstacles on the way to communism. That was not because they believed in the goodness of the human nature and assumed everybody would be willing to work honestly and diligently for the common good.

It was because (unlike people who grew up in democratic societies imagine), communism didn't need good, unselfish citizens in order to function. Communism needed only excellent repression. The bad apples would be forced at gunpoint to behave: the lazy would work to reach the goals set by the planners or else. The greedy would not be able to take more than the scientifically prescribed quantities of whatever (food, clothes, etc) because everything would be rationed. Besides the police would perform routine searches to find out who was hoarding goods, etc.

technically in a total communist society there would be no state to control and distribute the recources. Means of production would be controlled by the workers, who would all have ownership and a say in the usage of wealth and recources. Ideal communism is basically a total democracy.

Actually the state would be necessary for making sure the bad citizens do not take advantage of the system.

Also communism was about people voting, but voting only on issues which were legitimate according to the communist ideology. For instance the state was to make sure the bad citizens would never be able to campaign for say, allowing private ownership over the means of production.

Another aspect of the communist "democracy": for the communists religion was simply superstition. While in practice in all the European communist countries except Albania religion was tolerated, in a true communist society everybody would be an atheist and the state would make sure no "bad people" would practice religion (if they did, they would be "re-educated"). In a communist "democracy" it would be illegal to even suggest people should vote whether religion should be tolerated or not.

The problematic lacking will of enterprise is a misrepresentation of the idea of ditribution of wealth. higher education would still mean higher paying jobs, just not in the 'millions of dollars' salary range. Same with the problem of inefficiency, which is an effect more of strict, centralized plan-economy rather than communism in itself.

Actually the communist societies were supposed to do away with money since everybody would receive all that was needed (= all that was scientifically established a person needs). In exchange for having everything for free, everybody would have to work to the best of their abilities.

In practice the communists used the pragmatic approach of planning the economy and in forcing everybody to meet the objectives of the plan. If people happened to be hard-workers, fine! If not there were other means to make them achieve, ranging form threats to public humiliation to beating and to execution.

As for the lacking of enterprise, that would not have been exactly a problem: slowly but steadily the economy would have accumulated enough capital to make possible that every individual receives for free a practical set of clothes (warm in winter, comfortable to wear in summer), enough food to leave a healthy life, a black & white TV, a place with central heating and running water where to live while not working, reliable public transportation, etc.

Sure, everybody would be dressed the same, there would be only one brand of sport shoes, one model of TV set, etc. But through the economies of scale those things would be very cheap to make too. And it's more likely people would revolt for being hungry rather than for not having 3000 brands of cheese in the hypermarket.

As Kiljan said though, human nature pretty much guarantees that implentation of communism becomes frustrating or entirely impossible beyond what some of the more lefty european have today.

Actually an excellent repression system would make sure the human nature won't get in the way of communism.

What system does a Communist State use if not centralised planning? Out of interest.

Centralized planning exclusively. How could otherwise make sure enough shoes and enough bottles of milk are produced and that the resources aren't wasted on making an extra pair of shoes nobody would need?

[Bovril]

if humans stopped being greedy it works but good luck having that happen.

Communist ideology is to a large extent based on the idea that people should act in their own interest, not those of their masters. The debate should be whether worker controll of the means of production and so on really is in the best interests of the majority, and whether the majority can be motivated to do something about it. Shared control is not the same as giving things away after all.

An example of working communism/anarchism is the Kibutz movement in Israel, though the traditional way of life in such communities is rapidly dying out, perhaps largely due to the comercially uncompetitive nature of worker centered production.

[hellheaven1987]

Well, one quote actually explains well-enough.

"COMMUNISM IS A SMALL SETBACK... ON THE ROAD TO FREEDOM."

[bthizle1]

if humans stopped being greedy it works but good luck having that happen.

The same can be said of Capitalism.

[Gertrudius]

The same can be said of Capitalism.

Actually, greed and self interest are what drive capitalism. So your statement doesn't make sense.

[bthizle1]

Actually, greed and self interest are what drive capitalism. So your statement doesn't make sense.

Exactly....so this greed and self interest is taken to an extreme and results in certain businesses trying to achieve monopolization of their particular field. This puts other business out of business due an inability to compete. They simply cannot continually provide as low as prices and maintain wages, like a bigger company may very well be able to.

[Hookah Smoking Caterpiller]

to be honest you should ask somewhere where people belive in it, here you will largely get derisons.

http://www.revleft.com/vb/

And I have not the time, effort or will to respond.

[Thanatos]

It doesn't. The fact that you're forced to share because you've a gun pointed to your head if you try to think otherwise negates the whole premise that everybody shares out of their goodwill, once the bourgeois capitalist pig owners are driven out/killed.

[The Super Pope]

It doesn't. The fact that you're forced to share because you've a gun pointed to your head if you try to think otherwise negates the whole premise that everybody shares out of their goodwill, once the bourgeois capitalist pig owners are driven out/killed.

There was no state coercion during the Paris Commune, the ideal communist society.


The way it's meant to work is that all decisions are made by committee of the people in the local are. In Russian villages prior to the revolution this system was used, and the committees were called soviets.
Industries are owned by the state, and the profit is dished out to society at large.

The fundemental flaws with communism are
a) The rest of the world isn't communist so leaders will always be needed.
b) Communism generally comes in through revolution, meaning ultimately that a warlord with an army has taken control of the state.
c) Communist states have a single party because they never go fully communist, in that there are people who want to continue the old ways. At election they might elect a liberal or conservative party who would undo communism completely. Communism is not compatible with liberal democracy, because they require two different societies. Communism can onlyu be imposed from above, except in a few isolated cases, so there are still leaders and those who are led

[Gertrudius]

if humans stopped being greedy it works but good luck having that happen.

What he said.

[Sidmen]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

^^ working Communism

[Sven788]

Communism is a dream of young people who hope to get the easy way!
Or just lazy bums....

[Kiljaden]

From a citizen's perspective, it seems to me that there will be a law that you must work, say, 9 months out of the year (excepting legitimate medical reasons). There would be a local Job Office, where you went to get work. At the JO, you could find various jobs for which there are a number of openings, and you could still choose what job and where to work.

As all schooling is free (and funding for research widespread), one could attend colleges and graduate schools to a certain point. This would enable you to get better job (or ones more in line with your dreams and desires) and serve the community and yourself (trust me, there will still be people willing to go through med school).

In a true communist economic system paired with a true democracy, although the government (and thereby the people) hold claim to all property, privacy is still protected under law. Also, for this system to work, local societies will have to have enormous amounts of autonomy and freedom. There is no way a federal gov't can control the assets of the entire country, however it can manage the country, be an arbiter between provinces, be the face for the country (with its democratically elected leaders) and allocate resources across the nation. I suspect that provinces and counties will have increasing autonomy the smaller the scale goes. In other words, the federal gov't must have extremely limited power.

I know this is kind of fragmented, but I'm brainstorming more than presenting a well-thought out argument right now, because I've never thought about the reality of communism, only the ideology.... One last note, for dangerous or highly undesirable jobs (like offshore oil rigs or sewage maintenance), there will have to be incentives for temp and career jobs in these fields (such as extra entertainment allocation or early retirement)

[Dromikaites]

From a citizen's perspective, it seems to me that there will be a law that you must work, say, 9 months out of the year (excepting legitimate medical reasons). There would be a local Job Office, where you went to get work. At the JO, you could find various jobs for which there are a number of openings, and you could still choose what job and where to work.

As all schooling is free (and funding for research widespread), one could attend colleges and graduate schools to a certain point. This would enable you to get better job (or ones more in line with your dreams and desires) and serve the community and yourself (trust me, there will still be people willing to go through med school).

In a true communist economic system paired with a true democracy, although the government (and thereby the people) hold claim to all property, privacy is still protected under law. Also, for this system to work, local societies will have to have enormous amounts of autonomy and freedom. There is no way a federal gov't can control the assets of the entire country, however it can manage the country, be an arbiter between provinces, be the face for the country (with its democratically elected leaders) and allocate resources across the nation. I suspect that provinces and counties will have increasing autonomy the smaller the scale goes. In other words, the federal gov't must have extremely limited power.

I know this is kind of fragmented, but I'm brainstorming more than presenting a well-thought out argument right now, because I've never thought about the reality of communism, only the ideology.... One last note, for dangerous or highly undesirable jobs (like offshore oil rigs or sewage maintenance), there will have to be incentives for temp and career jobs in these fields (such as extra entertainment allocation or early retirement)

You are quite close to what was actually going on in some occasions. for the rest, here's how things were prescribed by the communist doctrine:

Education was mandatory (10 or 12 years, from the age of 6 till the age of 16 or 18). After the first 8 years of school there would be exams to separate the pupils according to their academic aptitudes. Approximately the top 10% would go to high schools which trained them for "intellectual jobs". The rest went to what in Romania were called "industrial high schools" except for the bottom 10% which went to the so called "professional schools".

Everybody except the bottom 10% were allowed to apply for university education. If they passed the entrance exams (some ~10% of the total number of people who went through high schools and "industrial high schools" combined) they would go to the university and become teachers, engineers, doctors, etc. Those who could not pass the university entrance exams would be either clerks (mostly those who graduated the normal high schools) or skilled workers and technicians (usually the graduates of the "industrial high schools"). The graduates of the "professional schools" would be in general unskilled workers.

There was no need for Job Offices: since the economy was planned the jobs would be handed out the moment people finished their education, according to what they had graduated. There was no opting involved. The jobs were mandatory. Not taking it and therefore not having a job was a criminal offense punished by imprisonment.

The undesirable jobs would go to those who graduated "professional schools" or lower-rated "industrial high schools". Basically the poorer one would do academically quite early in life, the higher was the likelihood to end up with a mandatory undesirable profession. At the age of 14 (the age of the high school admission exam) one's fate was pretty much decided.

[Dracula]

The ideal of communism is that the state's aristocracy will use as much money as possible. To achieve this they teach people to be sufficient with little and to work as hardly as possible. The result of their work was to be traded with the free countries and the benefit spent among the communist aristocracy -which-as employees-would have almost no expenses on their factories and enterpreneurship. So huge profits planned. The system failed when the high class realized the workers don't give a crap about the quality of the work and started to despise the very idea to work, so both profits and use of the system were much less than in normall capitalism.

Therefore in the communist states it was obligatory/by law/ to start work at 18 and if you didn't ,repressions were on the way.