Remember to smile
Economic questions and ideas
Ok, this is the brand new feature for DLV 6.0
I played a couple of turns(1220), and my rating: (-5) to (-3).
questions:
How to manipulate it?
What it does?
Is it just statistics or does it go deeper? :hmmm:
1000f the first turn? or 1000 every turn?
Infact, everyone who got experience or new suggestion regarding this feature, please share.
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 26, 2009 at 05:29 AM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Originally Posted by Finn
Senator
Re: -5 Depression etc. question for Repman
I am pretty sure it changes when you have good or bad effects in your economy - "Disaster on your Roads" ect. will change it my -1.
I have no idea what it does. I think you just produce less/more florins.
And because it is tied to the economic events doesn't that make it random? :hmmm:
Remember to smile
Re: -5 Depression etc. question for Repman
It would be awsome, to once in a while pay a rescueing(bailout)-package.
Either:
- When it goes down to -5 depression(auto-popup).
...or......you can choose to pay, 1000, 10 000, or 50 000 etc. The package can fail, and you gain nothing. Or the package can be succesful. Depending on your size of kingdome.
- When you get the Treasurer retinue, the Treasurer will once in a while ask you(random popup).
Just like real time.
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 25, 2009 at 04:58 AM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Re: -5 Depression etc. question for Repman
I am curious about this too, the pop-up states that it will cost 1000fl and some turns to resolve the event, but its not clear on whether that requires any player action or is just reflected in the reduced income experienced.
Any clarification would be awesome!
Primicerius
Re: -5 Depression etc. question for Repman
At the moment the economic overview is only a statistics which is calculated by simple addition of the stochastic economic events...just a better overview for the player regarding the actual impact
So -5 -3 most of the time results of the higher probability of negative economic events
Some negativ economic events require once 1000 fl to repair. A the moment this is automatically subtracted once per event. But the events have an impact on the buildings effects (negative or positive: trading, mining,....boni or mali)
I would like to have more player interaction regarding economics...
If you have ideas to extend the economic simulation model of DLV, bring it on...
- an investment system (jewish money person, bank) if you have a lot of money: junks of 10000 up to 100000. Profit returns (1% -- 10%) yearly with the rate depending now on the economic status. Risk of total lost although dependent on status.
-
repman
BareBonesWars 8.1 for RTW 1.5
Integration Mod which combines unique strategic challenges due to a 4 Season scripted campaign from 280 BC - 180 AD on several big/small maps and with an ruthless AI on the battlefield.
Deus lo Vult DLV 6.2 for MTW II Kingdoms
Norway+Ireland+Flanders+Kiev+Lithuania+Teutonic_Order+Armenia+Crusader+Georgia,1y2t script, army field costs, Ultimate AI 1.6, big map, military career, economic system, age simulation, heraldic system, new factions, garrison script, Crowns + Swords, Trait bugfixer, religion dependent recruiting, ancillary enhancements, darth battle mechanics
Remember to smile
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Re: Economic questions and ideas
i love getting the positive events at mines, the economy goes up and up!
this events sure make it tougher and cooler. But while playing with the norse i had like 1000 bad events, thats why my economy was always red. Moreover it seemed that the only way to get out the depresion was to be in positive numbers. therefore if u had no money and negatives efects, you are pretty screwed.
Luckyly for us we've got the jewish synagoge, or we can be bailed out by those darn hatefull nobels.
Bottom line is: I do enjoy the economic system and the things it implies.
@blackleaf: check out how much you make out of a mine, then check it with bad/good effects. you will see the incredible results.
Deus lo Vult Player
AAR Writer: Wrath of the Norsemen
Lovin' cav spread
Tiro
Re: Economic questions and ideas
I love the mod, but now all the changes trying to make DLV more challenging for the human player are getting close to insane. I do play VH/VH with all DLV features on and CIV mode, so this could explain a bit of my frustration.
One of the features that annoys me the most is the new diplomatic interaction between factions. Why? Because it is extreme, and utterly un-sensible.
Let's see: Trying to strike a deal with a faction you are not in good terms with is impossible, so bye bye to government points. Example: second turn playing Regnum Hierosolimitanum (aka Crusader States) and trying to get trade rights with the Ayyubiyyun (aka Egypt) faction. I offer 10k florins plus 50 times 2500 florins ... to get plainly rejected. It does not make sense, even if they hate me.
But wait, because diplomacy is a double edge sword. First turn, I send my diplomat to the Teutonic Order and offer them trade rights for 10k = just accepted. Then I continue the deal with "Alliance + Military Access" for 12.5k = accepted. So now I have 25k under my belt. Could life be better? What is that? A Kilikioh Haikakan Takavorootiunuh (aka Armenia Cilicia) princess coming my way and offering trade rights + map? What will happen if I say I will give "Trade rights + Alliance + Military Access + Marry the princess" for 2 x 12.5k florins? Accepted, so in the first turn I find myself with 35k florins to spare and 12.5k coming next turn. Now we are talking. I have 6 gov. points plus a continuous income because of my healthy treasure. Upgrading is now a piece of cake, which is exactly what Repman was trying to avoid.
The problem being, it should not be so difficult to get diplomacy agreement (now if I have a mission instead of trying to get trade agreements which would benefit both factions, I just gift them 100 florins, deal done, government point gained), neither should I get so much out of it.
Joh
PS: on a minor note, Antioch does not generate trade income with Adana even though trade agreement is in place and there is a border between both provinces.
[EDIT]: just started a new campaign and there seems to be trade going on now, so, do not pay attention to my last statement.
Last edited by PrivateJoh; January 25, 2009 at 05:45 PM.
Remember to smile
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Good you got questions, thats whats makes us all more intelligent. And nice to see the Mod is doing its work.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- If the faction hate you and is happy to go to war, if you ask. Then making you rich is not really a Welcome idea!
- Ok, this is what I do if I MUST have trade agreement with my nemesis: Give ALOT of cash to the Ayyubid. Almost any characters will accept pure money donations. Then when they are happy, you can eventually propose Trade agreement etc.
- Diplomacy is not the prime way to acquire Gov. points. I never waste my time nor money. It's only the top of the ice. "You can allways take a piss, but it takes more to fill a pool."
Factions with good relations accept diplomacy... Nemesis decline you. I did not realy get what's wrong.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:Any way, you could'nt have chosen a worst faction. Surrounded by other religion and all.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I can see your point. Easy rewards etc. The mission should be more "get trade with Armenia, etc"
I can not see your main point. Trade agreement in real life is a massive thing and is the reason for wars/asassins.
But, if you want to make a change, report to Xtiaan in the Strategy Guide for New Players! Tell him your concern with diplomacy(check my Sig).
Cheers
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 26, 2009 at 12:14 AM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Please add a hotfix with a question to use new diplomacy or old diplomacy model in campaign start. This one is just not working.
Re: Economic questions and ideas
It's not working for some but for some others it's working perfectly. It might be nice to have the option though so I completely agree but gameplay options that make it harder for me to get military and gov points really are making the game more interesting for me. This change to diplomacy has made completing missions, doing crusades, etc. etc. that much more important for getting those points. Plus it's now hard to "secure" borders with treaties and get trade rights, so security and economy suffer. I think of that as a plus because previously it was easy to get your first ally and so easier to get successive ones. The more alliances you have the more powerful you seem to be to the AI and so the more likely you are to get an alliance with someone else. Relations matter in diplomacy but so does your perceived status.
Even as things stand I find that without spending more than 20k I've got maybe 8 allies by about 100 turns. One thing that raising the dificulty of diplomacy does is to force players to use it more often, I find myself offering military access much more, offering attacks on other factions regularly, I pay tributes to those hungry for my land, etc. So for me it's adding a lot of detail.
BTW when you get a diplomacy mission to make contact with another faction you only need to offer assistance against the rebels to qualify as having made contact. Trade rights can be tough to get sometimes but contact is usually easy to make. Offering assistance versus the enemy of your intended ally is often a good way to keep him from attacking you when combined with the usual large garrisons on your borders with him.
Is it hard enough? So far I'm thinking it might be. It was a big problem that you could get government points so quickly and easily before. If it doesn't take time and intelligent effort to accumulate points then theres not much point having the point system.
Anyway that's all just my opinion, I'm not savvy with the ins and outs of modding the diplomacy side of things or the point system so I don't know what the options are for where to take it next. I do like the idea of offering a less challenging diplomacy AI at the start of a campaign, nice one for coming up with that.
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Yes, now MTW is the ultimate game. with all this addons you now have a tough a challenging game all turns and not just in the first 4. I remember playing MTW with no mods, hell i conquered america, and had more than half of europe with the scots. to achieve that now, is nearly imposible, and as it should be. As we recall huge empires last like nothing...
Tougher games are more fun than anything else, because, what is the fun part of always winning?
To enjoy victory, you must first have tasted bitter defeat. That's my motto, I recomen everyone no to load games when your generals die, and when your strategies go south keep it up and adapt to that ankward situation you put yourself into. Fight back, with tooth and nail, use diferent strategies. hell. i just love this mod.
Right now i'm playing with the norse, and i am having a really tough time. I've already lost like 4 generals in battle. Got 2 towns sacked. and had plenty of sieges. but i keep standing back up. those danes are just starting to fear me!!.
The only downpart is the extreme dificulty i have to gain more than 15 gov points. As i got no cash, i cannot generate gov points, and cannot build to "improve" my governors, and as nobody likes me in the meddieval world, i have a very tough time gainning gov with diplomacy. But i just keep it up as a stubborn hot-blooded viking.
once more exelente work repman & co.
Deus lo Vult Player
AAR Writer: Wrath of the Norsemen
Lovin' cav spread
Remember to smile
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Ok people, back to topic.
Lets try to come up with historical features or input to the economic DLV-systems. This might be your chance to add an idea, that might be involved in-game.
You may find out that there was an importent building, which is not in DLV, or to change economic penelty for a random event, because....bla bla bla.
When you got a super idea, think before you post:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 26, 2009 at 08:09 AM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Miles
Re: Economic questions and ideas
There are so many suggestions, ideas, and comments that I don't know where to begin! Since this thread is on economics, I'll begin there.
I love repman's idea of an investment system. I assume that you meant to build in penalties for withdrawing the money early? Otherwise the player would just invest all their money and it would be somewhat useless as a motivator. With stiff penalties, the player would be forced to decide whether to take more of a risk investing money.
If others agree with this, perhaps someone could start a new thread outlining the idea so we could generate more feedback? That way we can hammer out details about actual number amounts for investment bonuses/penalties.
Re: Economic questions and ideas
dunno if it can be done, but famine: it was relativly common to have some part of your empire under a famine problem because of bad crops. Yes i know the bad summer thing...
It would be cool if somehow a few settlements (for example the ones corresponding to one mercenary pool) to be affected by this famine: where a pop up could apear and ask whether you want to help this town, or let them be.
If you accept your governor would gain loyalty, and same sort of trait that gives more farming output -to better counter the next famine-. The town would be very happy for a while, dunno, maybe give it 30% of "triumph" happines. and a surplus in taxes.
If declined, bad loyalty traits, and same sort of "offence tanken" due to the idea of not being helped by his king. Lots of pop downgrowth, and unrest.
----------------
Deus lo Vult Player
AAR Writer: Wrath of the Norsemen
Lovin' cav spread
Re: Economic questions and ideas
can you replace the diplomacy files from 5.8 with the ones from 6.0. If so which files would that be? thanks.
Remember to smile
Re: Economic questions and ideas
Yeah we should just put every realistic/unrealistic suggestion in here, then fine tune what is within range, and then wrap it in a neat package in a new thread.
We could say that you must leave your money in for 5 years, then you would get it back.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
It's not easy to think of new economic features. It's allready there.
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 26, 2009 at 05:35 PM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
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