How Does AI reacts on Diplomacy

[Lord Sherwin]

Just curious on how AI reacts, think, and counter on diplomacy. on my current campaign playing as english, I have a Very Reliable reputation. Portugal and Spain declared war against me. after crashing their armies and kicking their ass back to their homeland I sent my Diplomat and called a ceasefire offer them trade rights and maps and demand for 2500 florins. Just surprised on what happened, they rejected my offer and counter with...

Their Offer
Ceasefire
Trade rights
we will give 5460

is this something to do with a good reputation and being kind? they rejected it because they want to give more and maybe realized that declaring war to a faction with a good reputation and supreme power is the greatest mistakes they ever did.

Now, Can someone give me an Idea on how to end this up to vassalage. :hmmm:

[Leonidas_I]

Umm if you were able to take them out so easier why not continue to take Portugal and spain?

[Silent Assassin]

Just curious on how AI reacts, think, and counter on diplomacy. on my current campaign playing as english, I have a Very Reliable reputation. Portugal and Spain declared war against me. after crashing their armies and kicking their ass back to their homeland I sent my Diplomat and called a ceasefire offer them trade rights and maps and demand for 2500 florins. Just surprised on what happened, they rejected my offer and counter with...

Their Offer
Ceasefire
Trade rights
we will give 5460

is this something to do with a good reputation and being kind? they rejected it because they want to give more and maybe realized that declaring war to a faction with a good reputation and supreme power is the greatest mistakes they ever did.

Now, Can someone give me an Idea on how to end this up to vassalage. :hmmm:

Click HERE This link will help you alot with Vassals but with alot of other things. It's probably one of the best guides in TWC for M2TW.

Reputation as alot of weight in this game meaning that it's more inportant that alot of players think. You can believ me wehn I say this as I have a lot of experince with this game.

Probably you could have asked them to become your vassals and it would have worked, I don't know how your campaign looks like but when they re-offered you more money means that they respect you, your strenght, your Reputation.

One thing that I can add is that if you bad reputation you wouldn't have been able to have a simple cease fire. Players that always have Bad reputation in tenhir campaigns will tell you taht Reputation, diplomacy ain't worth in this game but IMO I will say that they are wrong.

Follow/read my guide(The Link that I have givin you) and maybe you can see it by yourself. If you have any questions please feel free to PM me or ask you question on the Lnik that I have gaved you here.

Regards
Rebel6666

[Soulghast]

Well, I can't really say much about your faction's reputation, as I never cared much about it on my campaigns, though I always looked not to break alliances or attack an allied faction's friends. But in my opinion, diplomacy is unfortunately one of the worse aspects of the game, and perhaps the entire TW series. Alliances and making vassals appear almost useless, as these factions are bound to stab you in the back whenever they find a chance. The only alliances that have actually being kept for a long time, in my experience, are those with factions who are usually far way on the campaign map. I have never had an alliance with a growing neighbouring faction last more than 20 turns. Plus the fact that the factions, even when heavily defeated, still refuse to agree to a ceasefire and have unreasonable demands, like returning all the conquered territories. So, to wrap up, I believe the AI reacts poorly to diplomacy, most of the time at least.

[Silent Assassin]

@ Soul,

In my experience I'have never been backstab by any of my vassals. Also like I have explained in my aboved post Reputation plays a big role on if diplomacy is good or not, having a bad Rep will make diplomacy harder for you. If I state what you said in your post you don't pay much attention to it then that is the reason why you think that diplomacy dosen't work. I'am not saying that it's perfect far from there but it is still alot better while having good Rep maybe you should try it and have a little read(I have heard that you were bored ) though some tips and guides that I have made for M2TW. Click on my Signature for the direct link.

Regards
Rebel6666

[Soulghast]

Well, I believe doing all that, including bribing other factions, to maintain a good reputation is more trouble than it is really worth. Why should I make vassals, who I have to bribe, at the expense of my faction's money, when I can just as easily destroy them, reap the benefits of their cities, without having to worry about them anymore. While I may not pay much attention to my faction's reputation, but I almost never go around attacking my allies or an ally's friendly faction. I tend to follow a slow, controlled and balanced type of playing, by waiting to build up, before engaging in war, unless completely necessary.

[Silent Assassin]

Well, I believe doing all that, including bribing other factions, to maintain a good reputation is more trouble than it is really worth. Why should I make vassals, who I have to bribe, at the expense of my faction's money, when I can just as easily destroy them, reap the benefits of their cities, without having to worry about them anymore. While I may not pay much attention to my faction's reputation, but I almost never go around attacking my allies or an ally's friendly faction. I tend to follow a slow, controlled and balanced type of playing, by waiting to build up, before engaging in war, unless completely necessary.

Let's say I make you my vassals and for it I give you your capital back plus another region and 100 000 florins... All of the florins will be back to you afterwards on the next turn. ON each turn they will pay you tribut plus I have never seen a vassal backstabb me not like in RTW where it was more common.

[Muagan_ra]

Well, I believe doing all that, including bribing other factions, to maintain a good reputation is more trouble than it is really worth. Why should I make vassals, who I have to bribe, at the expense of my faction's money, when I can just as easily destroy them, reap the benefits of their cities, without having to worry about them anymore. While I may not pay much attention to my faction's reputation, but I almost never go around attacking my allies or an ally's friendly faction. I tend to follow a slow, controlled and balanced type of playing, by waiting to build up, before engaging in war, unless completely necessary.

Expansion brings its own problems. You could, for instance, expand into Germany to finally vanquish the HRE, but you'll then have to fight Poland, and Russia, Hungary. You end one front only to open up another. Point in case: I finally get tired of the French in my Milan game, so I decide to deal with them. As soon as I reach Angers, the English attack me for reasons quite inexplicable. The Spanish attack me when I reach Toulouse - again, for no real reason; I was actually allied to them, and had a very good relationship.

There's also the problem of that there are just some areas that you're interested in, and some you aren't. You might want to set your borders at defensible places, or maintain a maritime empire - this flaw in diplomacy really is a problem for the player in that respect. It's not so much strategy as it is a game of conquest.

I just find it irritating.

Infact, I seem to remember this being better in RomeTW. Go figure.

[Muagan_ra]

Diplomacy is definately flawed. In my current Milan game, I'm finding it nigh-on impossible to make peace. I've been attacked by (in order) the Germans (HRE), Sicilians, French, Spanish and now the English. While I delight in punishing the English, I really don't want to have to prosecute wars against the others.

It really forces you to conquer their territories to support your economy - I've destroyed Sicilly, France is left with only two regions seperated by my new French possessions, and I've had to kick the Spanish back into Iberia. The Germans frequent send quite laughable forces to my castles in the Alps, only for me to rip them new ones.

It's fun, but a bit infuriating, to have to expand like this. I genuinely like to roleplay, and choose where to expand, but I simply have to expand because I'm finding it impossible to make peace, even when I'm clearly far superior to my enemies.

The Pope threatening Excommunication every time I'm about to retaliate certainly dosn't help matters, but I keep him sweet with generous bribes every turn.

[Silent Assassin]

Diplomacy is definately flawed. In my current Milan game, I'm finding it nigh-on impossible to make peace. I've been attacked by (in order) the Germans (HRE), Sicilians, French, Spanish and now the English. While I delight in punishing the English, I really don't want to have to prosecute wars against the others.

It really forces you to conquer their territories to support your economy - I've destroyed Sicilly, France is left with only two regions seperated by my new French possessions, and I've had to kick the Spanish back into Iberia. The Germans frequent send quite laughable forces to my castles in the Alps, only for me to rip them new ones.

It's fun, but a bit infuriating, to have to expand like this. I genuinely like to roleplay, and choose where to expand, but I simply have to expand because I'm finding it impossible to make peace, even when I'm clearly far superior to my enemies.

The Pope threatening Excommunication every time I'm about to retaliate certainly dosn't help matters, but I keep him sweet with generous bribes every turn.

I hope you know that in game it is scripted that Milan is hated by almost everyone

[Muagan_ra]

Probably. That would explain why the Mongols beg me for peace, and I can even squeeze tribute out of them. Egyptians, Turks - but my Christian brothers? Forget it.

[Silent Assassin]

Probably. That would explain why the Mongols beg me for peace, and I can even squeeze tribute out of them. Egyptians, Turks - but my Christian brothers? Forget it.

That is exactly why and I know there is a way to change thoses but I don't know how. The scripting is also the same for factions like England and France the reason why they hate each other from the beginning. If you don't believe me just start a campaign with any faction open the diplomacy screen where you can see who is allied with who and will will see that relashioships or already good or so-so all of this again because of the scripting.Another example: HRE is the less liked from the Popae at the beginning

[Spartaaaa]

Diplomacy in the game realise HEAVILY on reputation. Say if your a warmonger other factions will team up to take u down. Napolean for example was brought down two times by britian,russia,and prussia. just beacuse he was powerful didnt mean they would give up.
so listen to Rebel he has really good advice.plus a vassal will pay itself if u have good rep if u get attacked having two vassals can help with there assistance and money.

[Silent Assassin]

Diplomacy in the game realise HEAVILY on reputation. Say if your a warmonger other factions will team up to take u down. Napolean for example was brought down two times by britian,russia,and prussia. just beacuse he was powerful didnt mean they would give up.
so listen to Rebel he has really good advice.plus a vassal will pay itself if u have good rep if u get attacked having two vassals can help with there assistance and money.

Exactly my friend like I say often Rep as a big play in your campaign

[Sumonious]

Why didn't you ask for land,Lord Sherwin ? I always ask for land when I get high reputation With Very-trustworthy reputation and above you can basically rob their hard earn money before their very eye by:

Marriage proposal-You can hook up their princess and THEIR land for your leader/heir.
Ceasefire-They start it, they pay it. You CAN always demand settlement from the AI and succeed. 8/10 they will bitterly accept it.
Alliance-It's possible that you can demand military access through alliance with a high reputation.

Bear in mind that you can rape their reputation by asking them land, which sooner or later will cause the AI to piss off and eventually attacks/betrays you AGAIN to gain back those redress. Keeping that circle makes me understand why ppl love to play the dirty politic game in real life

[Conquistatore]

THere is a text file in the data directory where you can actually change the relationships that factions have with one another. I believe the file is called something along the lines of 'desc_faction_standings.txt'. If you open this file you can manually edit the relationship modifiers at the beginning of the game. For example the - sign against another faction is low relations or negative relations, while the + sign is good or positive relations.

Try fiddling around with the values in this file and see if that improves diplomacy in your next game.

As always when you edit text/game files, please make a backup copy so you can revert to it if things go wrong!

[Silent Assassin]

THere is a text file in the data directory where you can actually change the relationships that factions have with one another. I believe the file is called something along the lines of 'desc_faction_standings.txt'. If you open this file you can manually edit the relationship modifiers at the beginning of the game. For example the - sign against another faction is low relations or negative relations, while the + sign is good or positive relations.

Try fiddling around with the values in this file and see if that improves diplomacy in your next game.

As always when you edit text/game files, please make a backup copy so you can revert to it if things go wrong!

I agree you can change this easely but yes make a copy of the original you never know....

[Lord Sherwin]

As I continue my campaign last night, I have noticed another good things of having a good reputation.

My relations to Venice is neutral, Venice and I were allied to French and Polish, the next turn Venice declared war against me and guess what happened the next turn? French and Polish broke their alliences with Venice. Being lucky to have a diplomat nearby, I offer ceasefire and they happily accepted it, French and Polish declared truce to Venice. I checked my reputation and its Thrustworthy.

I dont want to eliminate any factions and my goal is to achieve my victory conditions without any factions kick off the map.

After war from Spain and Portugal I managed to get Spain as one of my ally, Spain declared war on Portugal, I then now send Diplomat to Portugal and offer allience they accept it and after that Spain declared truce to Portugal.

It is awesome, it's like they respect my decisions... lol

[Silent Assassin]

As I continue my campaign last night, I have noticed another good things of having a good reputation.

My relations to Venice is neutral, Venice and I were allied to French and Polish, the next turn Venice declared war against me and guess what happened the next turn? French and Polish broke their alliences with Venice. Being lucky to have a diplomat nearby, I offer ceasefire and they happily accepted it, French and Polish declared truce to Venice. I checked my reputation and its Thrustworthy.

I dont want to eliminate any factions and my goal is to achieve my victory conditions without any factions kick off the map.

After war from Spain and Portugal I managed to get Spain as one of my ally, Spain declared war on Portugal, I then now send Diplomat to Portugal and offer allience they accept it and after that Spain declared truce to Portugal.

It is awesome, it's like they respect my decisions... lol

You see like I said good Rep due play a bigger role than people think, if you would had a bad Rep you wouldn't have been able to get a simple ceasefire

[Leonidas_I]

As I continue my campaign last night, I have noticed another good things of having a good reputation.

My relations to Venice is neutral, Venice and I were allied to French and Polish, the next turn Venice declared war against me and guess what happened the next turn? French and Polish broke their alliences with Venice. Being lucky to have a diplomat nearby, I offer ceasefire and they happily accepted it, French and Polish declared truce to Venice. I checked my reputation and its Thrustworthy.

I dont want to eliminate any factions and my goal is to achieve my victory conditions without any factions kick off the map.

After war from Spain and Portugal I managed to get Spain as one of my ally, Spain declared war on Portugal, I then now send Diplomat to Portugal and offer allience they accept it and after that Spain declared truce to Portugal.

It is awesome, it's like they respect my decisions... lol

Hmm being a bit to nice here lol i guess its peaceful.