Which faction do you think....

[Mithrane]

Which faction do you think would best fit the following description?

-Strong base financial capability
-Good defensive units
-Good defensive location

Reason :

I have a desire to play a particular campaign. I want to play a campaign in which I capture few, if any territories in until the very late game. I want to have the funds to build constantly and simply out-tech my opponents. I want to have the funds to bribe as many attacking armies as possible. Ideally, I don't want to be in a hot-bed location (such as Constantinople or Jerusalem). I don't have any particular desire to be near the Mongols or Timurids when they arrive. I don't want to play England, period.

I was thinking HRE, but am unsure of their units or financial abilities, as I've never played them. I also worry about so many fronts, in addition to the proximity of the vile vile Venitans and Milanese. (back stabbing bastards)

I was considering combining this goal with another campaign I'm looking to start, where-by I play Hungary and play a full dread character with spies, assassins, etc galore.

Opinions?

[Silent Assassin]

England because:
-Strong base financial capability. By taking control of all the Island
-Good defensive units (Longbows, Chivalerci knights/Armoured Sergeant
-Good defensive location Except maybe for Portugal that will try to attack dublin or caernevon by sea, it's a good defensive position

The Danes(Danemark) because:
-Strong base financial capability: By taking Olso, Stockholm and Madeburg you will consolidate the Balkan island and a good castle to protect them but also will give you great money as Arthus(your capital) and Stcokholm becomes great cities.
-Good defensive units (Norse Archers, Swordsmen (sorry forgot their name) and War Cleric
-Good defensive location as mentioned aboved

The Moors because:
-Strong base financial capability: By taking all of the south regions like Timbutku they all have nice tradding capabilities.
-Good defensive units (Camel gunners, Christian Guards, capable archers)
-Good defensive location You will only be attacked by Spain and or Portugal in the Iberian Pennisule and maybe by Sicily near Tripoli

[Viking Prince]

-Strong base financial capability would mean Italian factions

-Good defensive units is not really a factor since all factions have the rock/paper/scissors -- If I had to pick it would again be the Italians since the cities can do well on their own.

-Good defensive location is usually a corner position such as the Isles or Iberia. Under the right play this can also be Egypt or Russia with no income potential for Russian withou expansion. Problem is your caveat that you want to minimize expansion. This would seem to indicate a larger faction such as HRE or France (both of which have too many inland settlements for the income potential -- though HRE has some good mines)

It sounds like you will need to decide between defense and cash.

Edit -- Rebel got here first.

[Silent Assassin]

-Strong base financial capability would mean Italian factions

-Good defensive units is not really a factor since all factions have the rock/paper/scissors -- If I had to pick it would again be the Italians since the cities can do well on their own.

-Good defensive location is usually a corner position such as the Isles or Iberia. Under the right play this can also be Egypt or Russia with no income potential for Russian withou expansion. Problem is your caveat that you want to minimize expansion. This would seem to indicate a larger faction such as HRE or France (both of which have too many inland settlements for the income potential -- though HRE has some good mines)

It sounds like you will need to decide between defense and cash.

Edit -- Rebel got here first.

Sorry It would not have been the first time

[Commander5xl]

Hmm, I just recently picked up the game and I haven't unlocked any additional factions yet but from my spies and diplomats it seems like the Muslim factions don't really attack each other(besides the Mongols and trimuids)? I haven't seen Egypt attack the Moors or anything and I haven't seen the turks attack Egypt ( may not have been really paying attention) are the muslim factions all that agressive? well bvesides the Holy Lands?

[Viking Prince]

@Rebel6666 how do you address the requirement as posted:

I want to play a campaign in which I capture few, if any territories in until the very late game.

Your answers are good, but which faction can sit and build without a great deal of expansion? This almost precludes factions with only one or two regions to start the game unless I am not interpreting the post correctly. This is why the OP is leaning to HRE.

[Silent Assassin]

Hmm, I just recently picked up the game and I haven't unlocked any additional factions yet but from my spies and diplomats it seems like the Muslim factions don't really attack each other(besides the Mongols and trimuids)? I haven't seen Egypt attack the Moors or anything and I haven't seen the turks attack Egypt ( may not have been really paying attention) are the muslim factions all that agressive? well bvesides the Holy Lands?

the thing is here my friend Egypt almost never attacks the Moors because they are quite far from one another, and just for your info the Turks, Egypt the Mongols and Timurids often goes againts each other

@Rebel6666 how do you address the requirement as posted:

I want to play a campaign in which I capture few, if any territories in until the very late game.

Your answers are good, but which faction can sit and build without a great deal of expansion? This almost precludes factions with only one or two regions to start the game unless I am not interpreting the post correctly. This is why the OP is leaning to HRE.

If I had to choose only one I would go with the Danes, the reason why is simple I have tried what the creator of this thread wants to do and It worked as a charm with the Danes. I know that my answers are maybe not as exactly what he was looking for but it is close IMO.

The 3 factions that I have stated are quite similar in positions( Not much battle fronts( abit more for the Moors but depends on how you play your game), good defensive roster ( almost every faction as a good defensive roster , there is not alot(enough IMO) of unique units in this game that is why I play retrofit Mod. and for the last point money: Cities that are Landlocked like HRE is why that I didn't choose them don't make money like the ones closer to the sea. All of the 3 factions that I have stated have this.

So here the ball is in your court

[Commander5xl]

@ Rebel ohh okay, I haven't really seen the complete starting world yet and by the time i got to Egypt they were only a couple territories away from the Moors, and I know the mongols and Trimuids fight alot with Egypt and the turks but that from my understanding is because thats the land closest to their take over

[Silent Assassin]

@ Rebel ohh okay, I haven't really seen the complete starting world yet and by the time i got to Egypt they were only a couple territories away from the Moors, and I know the mongols and Trimuids fight alot with Egypt and the turks but that from my understanding is because thats the land closest to their take over

No worries my friend I would like to Welcome you the this forum and if you need any help just click on my Signature on the Great INformative Thread you will find there alot of good tips for the in gane and if you want to unlock all factions just let me know.

Here is the link in case you don't find it in my Signature

[Viking Prince]

We are not really far apart really. MY guess is that if the Danes are acceptable as a choice, then Russia is also. The problem is the tensions between being close for naval trade and far enough away to be left alone.

I agree that the HRE (and France) have too little income potential with the inland regions simply not contributing. To a degree the Danes are probably the best since they need not take out a faction to be left alone like the Isles with Scotland and England or Iberia with Portugal, Spain, and the Moors. Arhus has better income potential than Novgorod so again Denmark wins out. I guess Egypt would be problem with the Crusades. The italians always butt heads.

I have never had good luck witht he Moors without a bit of expansion. The economy is too fragile. Eventually the Sicilians will encrouch and Cordoba will be assaulted.

Denmark it is.

[Silent Assassin]

We are not really far apart really. MY guess is that if the Danes are acceptable as a choice, then Russia is also. The problem is the tensions between being close for naval trade and far enough away to be left alone.

I agree that the HRE (and France) have too little income potential with the inland regions simply not contributing. To a degree the Danes are probably the best since they need not take out a faction to be left alone like the Isles with Scotland and England or Iberia with Portugal, Spain, and the Moors. Arhus has better income potential than Novgorod so again Denmark wins out. I guess Egypt would be problem with the Crusades. The italians always butt heads.

I have never had good luck witht he Moors without a bit of expansion. The economy is too fragile. Eventually the Sicilians will encrouch and Cordoba will be assaulted.

Denmark it is.

Looks like I won this first round

[Mithrane]

Thank you for the quick responses. To clarify...

I will not play England. I can't stand them. I've played them ad nausiem. Their style of play is hap-hazard at best. Their units are lack-luster. Longbows are extremely over-rated. These are my opinions. Please keep any debates of them private or in another thread.

Danemark - I've played them many many times. I love them. They are supreme in the world of infantry, and their War Clerics simply don't die. However, they are the least suited for turtling. Their late tech is nothing too spectacular. Their strength is in the early-middle time frame. Their position is such that they require expansion in multiple directions or will face multiple invasions in their heart-lands. I have played them defensably, and that is not what I am looking for here.

Moors - This is a potential candidate, though, I find their units to be rather ... flimsy, at least in early years. They do not seem to have the "tank" like infantry that a defensive roster would have. They also rely on cavalry a bit more than I'd like to use. Though, their location is good for what I'm interested in, if a bit money-deprived.

Italian Countries - I admit, I've never been able to get into Italy very well. They are quite spread out, and vulnerable to invasion if they don't take the fight to the enemy. That being said, they are supreme in the realm of defensive infantry, which is precisely what I want to use. Perhaps if I can get beyond the requirement for a navy and stop worrying about invasions, I might find them to be along the lines of what I'm looking for.

Other countries I've considered....

Byzantium - My all time favorite nation. Their location is superb. Their income is unmatched. Their infantry, once researched, is amazing. However, it does not hold out into gun powder. They are the center for Jihad past Bagdhad. Every Crusade goes through them. And did I mention the Venitians and Hungarians always always always causing a problem to the point one must attack them to shut them up? Finally, both the Mongols and Timurids will be coming. And they cause all kinds of problems.

Portugal/Spain - The Iberian seems like a wonderful place to form a defensive country. However, they are neither one of them too strong in the defense, from what I remember of them (year + since I played them). They are also cavalry centric, which does not do well for a standing defensive army, as they cost a ton.

Novgorod (Russia) - These people require a MASSIVE expansion to do anything. They are quite cavalry centric, and will be hit by the mongols or Timurids shortly after their arrival.

[Silent Assassin]

So your best bet would still be either the Danes or Bysantines... I have done it with the Danes turtling and I must say that I have won my campaign... Compared to you I dopn't have any problems with the Late tech... But its' your game so it's your choice...

For the Moors they have the Christian Guards, that for me are quite good enough and their Camel Gunners you should try them they arrive with the gunpowder event

[Conquistatore]

The way I see it you have a couple of options.

1. Try the moors and turtle until you can develop some decent tech. Conquer the Iberian Peninsular or not, either way it will be easy.

2. Play Sicily, they are the southernmost Italian faction which are somewhat guarded from northern aggressors by the pope. They can make lots and lots of money if you create 'THe Triforce' as I call it, meaning Naples, Cagliari and Palermo as cities with fully upgraded ports, markets, roads and farms. This will give you a ridiculous amount of income as you progress further into the game. If you don't want to miss out on castle units you can easily capture and hold either ajaccio or tunis or both.

3. Get a mod that focuses solely on the Byzantines like this one 'The complete byzantine unit roster project' and play to your hearts content.

4. I wouldn't recommend Russia as a faction to suit your play style, big open lands and little trade, you also need lots of cavalry to patrol and secure your lands... plus you have the mongs and tims coming later..

5. One faction that hasn't been mentioned, Scotland. Granted they don't have great trading opportunities but they do have imho the best defensible position and lots of defensive pike units. They also have some sword wielding infantry and decent archers if you wish to go on the offensive

Can't think of anything else right now, hope my advice helps!

[O'Hea]

Spain and Portugal are cavalry-centric, but they have fantastic Late technology, including very good pikemen. The Scots do have some pretty good defensive units, but I've personally always thought most of their troops were second-rate at best. They also have an utter lack of gunpowder.

Really, your best bet for a rich-but-defense-oriented country would be Milan. They aren't spread as thinly as the Venetians and aren't as castle-oriented, and they can field all-militia armies that can compete with most anything (I'm firmly of the opinion that Italian Spear Militia is one of the finest infantry units in the game). Just grab Florence, maybe Bern or some islands, and turtle to your heart's content.

[Muagan_ra]

Definately not the HRE - they're vulnerable on all sides, and will need to fight many simultaneous wars. I would advise that you go for Milan, or Venice.

Why?

If you're playing as Milan, you could conquer Venice. As Venice, you could quickly move to take Milan and Genoa. Conquer Florence before the Papacy beats you to it, and take Bologna when the HRE inevitably makes war on you. Add these posessions to the Islands of Corsica and Sardinia and you have a very strong, very rich state that is easily defensible. You will be able to tech to your hearts content, and pick and choose where to expand.

You will almost certainly have to defend against the HRE, and France - but it could make for an enjoyable challenge. You will be attacked by Sicilly, who almost always make a bee-line for Bologna, and if you take over Naples and Sicily from them you will have established an even stronger and richer defensive position.

The reason why it would really have to be the Italian factions is that they are the only factions that can be militarilly strong, at the same time as being wealthy and technologically advanced. This is because they (particularly Milan, but the same is true of Venice) have unusually powerful militia armies, that are the equal to most professional troops of the other factions. You also get several militia units that are free of upkeep, which is an added bonus.

With Milan you have the perhaps the best fulfillment of the criteria you have outlined, but as Venice you could keep one Castle to get access to Venice's strong professional troops (Venetian Heavy Infantry, and Venetian Archers) to augment your forces.

[Voolma]

The reason why it would really have to be the Italian factions is that they are the only factions that can be militarilly strong, at the same time as being wealthy and technologically advanced.

Excuse me but if u know how to play correctly and smart u can have great army and be rich with every faction.

[Muagan_ra]

Excuse me but if u know how to play correctly and smart u can have great army and be rich with every faction.

True, but that isn't really the point of the thread, now is it? The guy's looking for opinions on specific factions, and in my estimation the Italians are best placed to do that.

[Incontinenta Buttox]

I would go with Spain. Once you control the peninsula, you can turtle, and their late unit roster is fantastic. Worth waiting for.