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Thread: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

  1. #181
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Definitely nice to see you guys pop here again with interesting discussions.
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  2. #182

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    @ DaVinci
    I was not criticizing you
    Simply when people speak of discipline as a main attribute of the roman army I like to put things in their historical perspective: ancient idea of discipline was quite different than ours...
    Probably when the average TWC dweller read "The Roman army was very disciplined" he thinks something like modern military parades, or 18-19 century armies, and this is simply a misconception... legionaries were disciplined for sure, but only in comparison with the standards of their times!

    I think people like us who know this ancient stuff quite well should be very careful in avoiding to feed the myths of "McHistory" and eventually try to demolish them every time is possible, I hate pop-theories like the "stirrups that made the Knight" and similars.

  3. #183

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Alright folks, I gotta question. Normaly I would read through the entire thread to get the picture, but I'm a bit out of time and I wanna spent it with the game and writing my AAR. It read that the EDU is out of date with the new version of PI. I'm too busy to mess with them myself... Anyone willing to upload an EDU? Pretty please?

    edit: Oh snap. I just saw Apers txt attachment. I'll add that to my EDU myself, duh. I don't mind if the units are a bit unbalanced. Gotta work on with the AAR or I'll never complete it.
    Last edited by Fixiwee; June 20, 2009 at 06:09 AM.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Fixiwee, check the latest work by Romeu - you have two versions available (1HP and 2HP version):

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...69#post5407569
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  5. #185
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    I did some additional testing with Romeu's 1HP EDU and discovered ferentarii units are too powerful and can often win over much better spearmen units which is not good at all. The main reason for this unbalanced situation is that Romeu gave all land units +5 defense skill while it would be balanced if he would give them exponential defense skill. By this I mean that he should give to all units +50% or +100% of their original defense skill. Lancearii Umbri for example originally have 3 defense skill. By applying 100% they would have 6 defense skill. By doing so you maintain the original balance between the units and results will be the same as in original but with prolonged fighting.

    Please Romeu fix this for me, it's urgent!
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  6. #186

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    OK hister you sugest to increase 50% or 100% the defense skill?
    Last edited by Romeu; June 27, 2009 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #187
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Maybe 70% would be the best - not sure...
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  8. #188

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Pls test this i'm only increase defense skill +2 to all misile infantry, and all other infantary +5 and cavalary stay +5.

  9. #189

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    This is my second EDU all vanilla defense skill increase in 75%.

  10. #190

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    i was just wondering, does changing the edu work with save games? i am really having fun in my current campaign, so i wouldnt want to mess it up

  11. #191
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Quote Originally Posted by Mediteran View Post
    i was just wondering, does changing the edu work with save games? i am really having fun in my current campaign, so i wouldnt want to mess it up
    Nope, it doesn't mess your save games!
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  12. #192
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Romeu - holy crap that was quick! A bow to you...

    My girlfriend demands that I go to bad so I can't test this LOL. Will try it as a first thing to do tomorrow! Hopefully the delay can stay as it is so that it won't be also needed to make a exponential adaptation of weapon delays like you did for defense. We'll see - good night.
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  13. #193
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    ...She fall asleep an so I managed to sneak up with some testing battles Now that's waaay better! I tested the 2nd 75% skill EDU. I decided to raise the number of certain spearmen from 40 to 60 to balance things better. See attached file. I would still need to do some tests with certain units number but's it's getting very late here so it's postponed for tomorrow.

    Romeu - what do you say of exponentially raising the delay by 100%(?) instead of general +15? Maybe rather by 80% if values would be too high?

    I am considering to give Gallic/Ligurian long sword units a bit higher charge to compensate for their relative weakness and to simulate better their impetuous powerful frontal charge. +4 to base charge would do I think. Any thoughts on this? Can someone do tests for me regarding this? If not I'll test this tomorrow to see what charge vales will make a difference to simulate powerful frontal Gallic longsword charges.

    While we are at it please set stat_charge_dist to 9 for all hoplites units and apply +100% of the current charge value to them --> example: if it is 11 make it be 22 --> all this to simulate hoplites better according to Athenogoras's preposition. I did tests on this and it came out fine.

    Any ideas what other units would need to have their charge distance lowered?

    Hell, if so much time was put on EDU why not make it PERFECT now!? So Romeu - do you feel like doing this?
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  14. #194

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    I didn't tested anything, but I if it works I support the 2HPs version of the EDU.
    Why?

    1) Psiloi-class units are supposed, in RL, to offer no resistance in melee, but in otherwise excellent mod like EB (ACS can confirm) they often slow even elite units like no heavy infantry can do, due to the mechanics of the EDU.
    This can be fixed raising the overall killing power (tweaking attack/delay/lethality) and giving all units EXCEPT psiloi-class 2HPs.
    Since my model already lead to fast battles, I think adding a point of vitality can be enough.

    2) ALL missiles, in the western ancient world, were not supposed to kill many people. Their purpouse was to disorder enemy melee infantry formations and keep away enemy missiles units, that can do the same to your men.
    The only way to portrait this in a satisfactory manner in RTW is to give main line infantry 2HPs, and missile infantry (that not supposed to engage in melee too) 1HP.
    Ranged units initially don't cause many casualties, but consuming the first HP of the enemy give an edge to their comrades in hand-to-hand combat.
    Later in the battle, it's correct that, because of tiredness(= slower reflexes, less concentration) and more open/ disordered formations, the main line infantry become more vulnerable to missiles, and melee infantry begin to fall too when targeted by ranged.

    Come on guys, be honest and admit: javelins in RTW and most mods are totally useless.
    So why most ancient warriors carried some in battles? With the 2HPs mod we can give them justice, because without them, both line infantry and shock cavalry are at great disadvantage: we can say that without "softening" the enemy with javs, almost no charge can be successful, and IMO this is a VERY VERY nice feature.
    Obviously, to have some noticeable effect on the first HP javs must have a quite high attack value: but considering their very short range, this is hardly unbalancing.
    Last edited by Aper; June 28, 2009 at 05:05 AM.

  15. #195

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    i think that's a very good idea aper

  16. #196
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Heya Aper!
    Oh my my - the theory behind it is nice but in practice I have doubts about it Aper. A LOT of work would needed to be done to find balanced values while currently we have almost finished product - only the things I stated above are missing so I would be very glad if Romeu does them. If he is eager to additionally implement also your suggestions I have nothing against it and if it proves to be better then current one I will not hesitate to use it - but it's Romeu's call.
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  17. #197

    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Hister this is done:
    export_descr_unit_hister_holitescharge: is your EDU only changed the hoplites, triarii and mercenari campani.I believe all hoplites haver the hoplite tag in the name ok.

    export_descr_unit_histerEDU_2: tha same of first, plus 2x delay.

  18. #198
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Ow yeah! I'm happy like a virtual dancing banana LOL

    I see that you missed out the hoplitai units which is the same as hoplites with giving them bigger charge values and shorter charge distance! Let me know if you don't feel like fixing it - I can do it.

    Thank you Romeu from my heart!
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  19. #199
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    I see that you missed out the hoplitai units which is the same as hoplites with giving them bigger charge values and shorter charge distance! Let me know if you don't feel like fixing it - I can do it.
    Nevermind - I did this already (attached file).
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  20. #200
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    Default Re: How to become a Buddha in 5 weeks... or: THE EDU THREAD

    Okey here is the same EDU as before but this time with +4 charge to all Gallic long sword units; Ligurian longsword unit was given +2. Other Gallic non mounted units were given +1 to charge. I did this to compensate for their relative weakness and to simulate better their impetuous powerful frontal charge for which they were renown.

    This needs to be tested but I assume it should be okey and can be regarded as the latest balanced EDU.

    Edit: Gallic long swordsmen units are too strong with this file - use the updated file on next page!
    Last edited by Hister; June 30, 2009 at 02:39 PM.
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