just a question

[Teutonic Joe]

alrighty i have had this idea floating in my head for a long time. Im wondering if it is possible to link populace happiness with war progress.

Example:
HRE declares war on Denmark (lets say Denmark will be you the player). A noble of the HRE leads a army and seiges Arrhus. Denmark humilates the imperial army and captures the noble. the noble is ransomed back. Now usually vanilla M2TW wouldnt think anything of that and send the derby ass right back at you with another army within a turn or two. Now realistically speaking the noble would be humilated and the populace would feel a little uneasy with the war (possibly in the city in which he lived or maybe throught the empire who knows). Game wise, could a trait such as "humilated" or "ransomed back" be added to represent the fact that the noble would obviously feel humilated and probably would be mocked by his liege and other nobles. the affects would be of your chosing. Also since the conflict would cost alot of lives and waster manpower, perhaps the populace of the nobles region would feel less inclined to follow him again to disaster. again your choosing of how the populace acts.

Now a more positive example

Same scenario but the HRE soundly defeats the danes. Denmark would be horrified at the loss of Arrhus and would either respond in vengence (provided that it can fight back) or fall into depression since a mighty power has hurt them gravely. So happiness would drop in the kingdom. The HRE on the other hand is celebrating its win and the populaces happiness skyrockets for a moment and the noble recieves a trait showing that he is adept at conquest or something.

the main jist of the proposal is that both the player and the AI are rewarded greatly for success and punished for failure.

Also another suggestion would be the peoples reaction to those you declare war on.

Example:
Denmark (once again) declares war on HRE. HRE is far larger, stronger, and more advanced than Denmark and the populace responds with the expected "WTF!!!!". Since the odds would be so stacked against the smaller Danes the people would be begging for a ceasefire in order to spare them from horrible death and humiliation.

Now lets say Denmark declares war on say....Norway?....sure Norway. Norway and Denmark are the same power wise and growth wise and maybe some nobles and the people hate the Norwegians and possibly wish to expand their since expansion into the region is likely. The populace is satisfied with this idea and follow your nobles to war.

since this mod is still in development and in the ripe stages of requests im just curious to know if my idea is sound.

[eggthief]

Sounds to much like a snowball effect to me, the first to lose a few battles will only get crippled by punishments whereas the winner will be rewarded causing the "winner" to win the war at the grand scale with even less trouble.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Wow....+Rep

[Teutonic Joe]

Sounds to much like a snowball effect to me, the first to lose a few battles will only get crippled by punishments whereas the winner will be rewarded causing the "winner" to win the war at the grand scale with even less trouble.

of course the battles would have to be significant....im sure no one would lose heart over skirmishes im just talkin on a more epic stage like the loss of cities, the massacre of a huge army, nobles failing in their leadership etc.

of course all im doin is given a kind of broad idea that would need alot of hammering out and alteration in order to achieved to the most balanced of quality

[Alkidas]

Well, we certainly think the idea about HRE's victory making the populace happy etc. is sound, since it's already included in DotS.

[lenin96]

So happiness would drop in the kingdom. The HRE on the other hand is celebrating its win and the populaces happiness skyrockets for a moment and the noble recieves a trait showing that he is adept at conquest or something.

You could give a trait to all of the FMs of faction celebrating that improves public order and a trait to the losers FMs that lowers public order.

I'm looking foward to this mod.

[Hengest]

"the main jist of the proposal is that both the player and the AI are rewarded greatly for success and punished for failure." Yeah that's we want too, and it really doesn't have to be so very complex although the effects will work in any major pattern of growth or decline. One of our earliest concepts was making mechanics in the game to maintain balance and dynamics. So, for instance just the idea of re-emergent factions is an excellent way for the map to retain most of general power features, you will be unlikely to find Egypt ruling over a destroyed England, at least not for more than a few turns. Equally, England cannot destroy Scotland without working hard to keep the new regions happy. Forever.
Whilst the above is not exactly what you had in mind there will be functions in the game that will allow a kind of realism and depth to the AI just through simple triggers. Even when Denmark is being pushed back by the HRE, Denmark will likely acquire negative traits making them weaker but will also gain traits such as 'hater of germans' which could give them a real edge. We have discussed ways of effecting world politics more too, so that say maybe Norway fearful of HRE power in the Baltic would in turn aid Denmark... we are not sure how we can do that yet.
One thing we have counted on though is the Papacy being much harder against Catholics fighting Catholics, which is in itself nothing new really but the Papacy will also defend rebels. So a Catholic faction can take maybe one region within a few turns but taking say 5 or 6 within as many turns will just get them Excommunicated and break up the kingdom in Civil War. So it is within the player's best interest to take things slow and consolidate power in each region, this will be even more important since each region will not be acquired in a simple one turn attack, wall-defences will be a lot harsher and each region will have at least one more control point which will need to be taken to give you real solid law and order in the region.

So there...

[Basil 11]

"the main jist of the proposal is that both the player and the AI are rewarded greatly for success and punished for failure." Yeah that's we want too, and it really doesn't have to be so very complex although the effects will work in any major pattern of growth or decline. One of our earliest concepts was making mechanics in the game to maintain balance and dynamics. So, for instance just the idea of re-emergent factions is an excellent way for the map to retain most of general power features, you will be unlikely to find Egypt ruling over a destroyed England, at least not for more than a few turns. Equally, England cannot destroy Scotland without working hard to keep the new regions happy. Forever.
Whilst the above is not exactly what you had in mind there will be functions in the game that will allow a kind of realism and depth to the AI just through simple triggers. Even when Denmark is being pushed back by the HRE, Denmark will likely acquire negative traits making them weaker but will also gain traits such as 'hater of germans' which could give them a real edge. We have discussed ways of effecting world politics more too, so that say maybe Norway fearful of HRE power in the Baltic would in turn aid Denmark... we are not sure how we can do that yet.
One thing we have counted on though is the Papacy being much harder against Catholics fighting Catholics, which is in itself nothing new really but the Papacy will also defend rebels. So a Catholic faction can take maybe one region within a few turns but taking say 5 or 6 within as many turns will just get them Excommunicated and break up the kingdom in Civil War. So it is within the player's best interest to take things slow and consolidate power in each region, this will be even more important since each region will not be acquired in a simple one turn attack, wall-defences will be a lot harsher and each region will have at least one more control point which will need to be taken to give you real solid law and order in the region.

So there...

I especially like the aid from Norway example...
This is precisely why I think DotS has the potential to be the best TW mod - ever.

[Alkidas]

Furthermore, I agree about victories having a positive effect. The medieval nobility had a great respect for military greatness. Edward I certainly gained a lot of goodwill through his bravery in the crusade.

[J_O_E]

in the vanilla if you successfully captured a crusade target then all your cities would receive a happiness boost due to "victory" and "Triumph" modifiers appearing in the public order bar under settlement details, perhaps this could be tweaked to provide this boost after decisive victories and successful wars.
DLV had traits to represent army morale which ranged form excellent to terrible to neutral and these would be affected by wins or losses or by just doing nothing.