Page 7 of 357 FirstFirst 12345678910111213141516173257107 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 7124

Thread: Deus lo Vult: Battlefield Balanced v4.36 <25/01/15>

  1. #121
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 - 10/02/09

    Well I decided to take it down until I get proper permission from Chim...

    But yes, when he says I can then it's all officially implemented along with some cool new animation remixes but more importantly an experiment in creating different mechanics by altering the animations of units
    Last edited by Taiji; February 10, 2009 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #122

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 - 10/02/09

    you really should be using some [spoilers] in your first post, or mix all the info in one updated sheet ^^


    i will try to get some sleep.. fingers x
    Last edited by Taiji; May 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Removed spam

  3. #123
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    OK, this is what I've managed so far:

    Militia Axe: Not many fatalities, some slow moves, not many quick moves. - Bill militia, etc.

    Regular Axe: More fatalities, less slow moves, not many quick moves. - Axemen, etc.

    Elite Axe: All fatalities, less slow moves, more quick moves. - Berdiche, etc.

    Defensive Halberd: Shuffle back, less moving forwards moves, less slow moves, more quick moves, no light_spear, -4 defence. Assigned to 5 units: heavy billmen, voulgier, JHI, halbbruder and obudshaer. (militias will use phalanx)

    Pike-Breaker Greatsword: No knockback from the front, more moving forwards moves, one fast fatality. - Forlone hope.

    What to do next??

    I figure 2h sword does not need a militia level so I could make regular and elite classes. zweihander and swabians for the regular the rest for elite maybe.

    It might be interesting to have a defensive shield class for straight sword and axe/mace/falchion/scimitar....

    Just had an awesome idea but it's a bit impractical, we could have different styles depending on faction

    edit: thanks to an excellent tip from JaM I've got AI phalanx units using stand ground. This a huge improvement as pikes and halberds often wind up facing the wrong direction during combat if stand ground is not activated.

    ... watching defensive halberds fight each other is very tedious lol, they're too good at being defensive and so it takes ages. they do some excellent work versus pikes. if sandwiched between 2 pike units they'll die very fast though - they like to have space to move back into, cav charges work on them and some missiles work on everything anyway. Decided to nerf defensive halberds as they are way too good, removed light_spear and given -4 defence.
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 10:13 AM.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    so you will have exactly the same values in damage and defense for all same type of weapon (ignoring all your previous work!)

    in order to have different animations?

    please dont..

    it was really hard to achieve the level of ballance you had.. dropping that for these.. its a long shot...


    i would rather go with the most beautiful and realistic feeling animation for each type of weapon, then apply them one at a time, fixing numbers in edu until they have same results as before against all troops, then next type of weapon... then you submit your new files and we will have a ballanced edu with your new sets of prettier animations

    that is doable and you end up with nicer animations all around.


    please, i know its hard to cope with that, but remember which was the second step you took in your way to be in bb1.1
    Last edited by Taiji; May 26, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason: Removed spam

  5. #125
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Well until you've actually tested them you will not know how the anims compare in terms of kill rates.

    I honestly think what I am doing is way more advanced and difficult than what you are suggesting but I appreciate the warning

    My previous work is not being ignored... pfff!! It is being improved upon!

    I'm honestly surprised at you, suggesting I do less work - what is the world coming to?

    edit:

    Let me put it another way, by adjusting anims I can make a better battle game than has ever been made with m2tw's engine. You can only do so much with stats.

    And now let me put it yet another way, a story:

    There was once a great general, the victor of many a battle. One day he was sat in his palace playing absent-mindedly with a beloved jade broach which had been given to him by the emperor when suddenly he nearly dropped it. His face flushed and his heart raced as he considered how close he had come to destroying what he loved but then he had a realisation, the broach had become a weakness, a thing he must defend from harm and so with no further thought he smashed it. This is the way of the great general.

    Cool huh? I hope it makes my point
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 11:09 AM.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    advanced and difficult doenst necesarily mean that it can be improved as easily. whenever you need to change it tons of extra work will arise.
    every time there is more work included there is a bigger failure chance that makes things more and more randomic.
    and randomic things will leave you doing a lot of work for nothing so its better to be warned at early stages =)


    i trully love good animations and good models, more so because i work doing 3D stuff and i have a graphical mind,
    but i also love when i am playing something that makes sense, which has driven me to know much about the behind-the-scene stuff..
    and how many different animations end up in having this type of to-ballance sets:

    training quality + type of training + type of weapon + type of armor + type of animation


    when i test now, i run different variables to see how it is portrayed.
    as detailed in other post, i first test a mid range troops, chainmail or heavy chainmail and their counterparts
    when i am pleased with those results i then start checking results within lower tiers (no armor or padded) if those are ok, i jump to heavy armor and re-test.
    i try to run test by weapon type, so i start with versus cav ballance, then go to vs melee, then against armor (for the latter i do change the test subjects a little)

    now i will have to consider all 3 types of animations for axes, etc, so all those test should be multiplied.. and then i will have to memorize which are which..
    its like you inserted in the game more weapon types, so all test should be run nine more times. why? because i will have to test axe1 vs axe2, then axe1 vs axe3...

    right now it was almost perfect the up and down of the scale for quality of training and type of training, or seemed so, so those factors i could forget to test,
    which let me test specificly only the type of weapon strenght ballance, cav effect, missile and armor. with a few test i knew if it was ok...
    Last edited by Taiji; May 26, 2009 at 11:00 AM.

  7. #127
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Rest assured I am fully aware of the risks. Personally it doesn't look to me like it could create much extra work, some balancing issues can be interrelationally paradoxical but with most it's a case of +defence or -defence and so very simple. Inevitably more detail will be created by changing the animations, so far the changing details are allowing more gameplay mechanics to become possible than ever before. With choice increasing as it seems to me that it makes sense to explore the options and then revise my current work to incorporate the best of those options.

    If I had known how easy it is to do all this animation remixing stuff I would have started here. Noone told me and so here I am at the beginning many months after I actually started. You think revising the system is annoying? No way near as annoying as it all suddenly becoming substandard in the light of new information. I think what we have is great if you know nothing about remixing animations but on the other hand now I know about animation remixing it looks half-arsed, shoddy even. Balancing units should be done after animations are tested thus the unit balance we have is almost irrelevant now.

    First thing is to make new types of animation that achieve the gameplay-mechanics you want, next is to balance stats so that they can achieve those mechanics against various different foes to different degrees. So I am at step one again hehehe
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 07:27 PM.

  8. #128
    hotcobbler's Avatar Tiro
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    222

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    I can't wait to see those new animations. I'm drooling at the thought.

    True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance. --- Pharaoh Akhenaten,
    mid 12th century.

  9. #129

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Your commitment and follow-through with this project has been inspiring, Taiji..

    I love that ambition " I'm going to make the best battle system ever seen for MTW2"...

    Who can argue with that?

    Go for it man!

  10. #130
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Oh man wait till you see my latest badasses in action... they are awesome. I was getting pretty pissed off with sword and mace because there are so few animations for them but then I started messing around with reactions to being hit. The long and short of it is I have a animation class which uses it's shield whenever it's hit from the front back and sides, the effect is awesome, they raise their shields when arrows hit them... yes that is no typo. The other feature or 'downside' is that they dont get knocked back. It's going to be beautiful with spear units also. The decision I have to make is who gets it. It's very powerful, it helps a lot versus pikes ... too much for a lesser unit. Watching 2 of these units fight is a little repetitive but still more realistic than watching 2 guys taking turns to whack each other and then when they are hit they just shake their head and carry on.... I hate that so damn much.

    But who gets these new animations??

    When you get to see the units in action I'm keen to hear requests for different units to use different animation sets.
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 05:26 PM.

  11. #131

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    I see what you are getting at. The ultimate would be to have higher tier units get animations that help them fight a bit. Better unit = more moves kind of thing... That way higher trained units would actually look like they are outfighting militia types..

  12. #132
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Yes and different mechanics like the unit will give ground or push forwards or cannot be knocked back or fights using moves that help it keep cohesion or moves that help it break into a unit or slow moves that are easier to interrupt or fast moves that are harder... there is more but I've run out of steam

    edit: THEY USE THEIR SHIELD WHEN THEY ARE HIT BY ARROWS!!!!!!

  13. #133

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    There is an insane amount of detail you could take it too...Like one animation out of three for a certain unit for a certain faction makes it "Best in class" among faction swordsmen for instance....So people know when a certain unit is owning them by the animations..."Oh Shi*T it's the 'Axe Flip" animation, Let's get out of here"

    Here is an interesting question. Is it possible to set it up so that experience effects animation mix....So a gold chevron unit would have an extra move compared to a bronze of the same type... That almost adds RPG elements...Cool but is it possible?

  14. #134
    Agis Tournas's Avatar ★ Modder-at-Arms ★
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Athens, Hellas
    Posts
    1,714

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiji View Post
    THEY USE THEIR SHIELD WHEN THEY ARE HIT BY ARROWS!
    INCREDIBLE!
    Keep up your magnificent work, Taiji
    Cheers
    A mini-mod is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do!


    Son of Agisilaos / Grandson of jimkatalanos / Great-grandson of Garbarsardar





  15. #135
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    @Xtiaan, sadly not mate. I think maybe their chance of parrying, evading and getting fatalities goes up with xp but I haven't checked at all.

    @Agis, thanks buddy

    edit:

    left to tackle is getting some macemen and spearmen to use the shield to block arrows and be immune to knockback. Both absolutely suck with regard to having plenty of animations available. With the mace I can't use stabbing and with the spear... maybe I can use some sword, stabbing moves for the spears.

    I still haven't done anything for poleaxe, I'm tempted to use PB's but I'm also keen that we make something different. All the axe sets I've made use stabbing, there are nice chopping moves which come from those little stabs and the stabs almost never do anything. I just think of them as attempts to drag the opponents shield.
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    I figured it was a stretch..Still I'm interested in how experience could effects unit animations/performance on battle field.... Perhaps experience could be tied to slightly higher animation "Speed" for the unit?... That would also give the "appearance' of a more elite unit.

  17. #137
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    I think it might be mate, I haven't checked that stuff really because I can't change anything about it unfortunately.

    edit:

    I'm going to miss cav spread if Chim gives his permission, it might be a good idea to find or make another cav spread fix which just reduces the size of spread to half... or even less. This could be used for horse archers and such that aren't suited for combat in formation. I guess it might not be possible to have 2 sets of animations for horses though.
    Last edited by Taiji; February 11, 2009 at 07:24 PM.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.0+6.1 ????

    I was going to suggest that Taiji...A reduced cav spread just for light cav is an awesome solution...You need big bucks for the highly disciplined heavy cav.....Cav spread for the light cav units is realistic. And it would be cool and add realism if the two types behaved differently

    Great minds think alike

  19. #139
    /|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/|\/
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    10,770

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.x 12/02/09

    Bump, Chim has given us his permission YAY!!! - details of BB1.2 download on first post.

    I recommend testing out an english army to see most of the new animation setups in action. It also helps to have weak guys like peasants as targets so that you get to see all the moves.

    Bill Militia - Militia axe
    Heavy Bill Miltia - Phalanx halberd
    Billmen - Regular axe
    Heavy Billmen - Defensive halberds
    Armored Swordsmen - Shield master
    Dismounted English Knights - Elite axe

    That only leaves Forlorne Hope to check out

    I am once again desperate for feedback, testing all the stuff I do all by myself is impossible while keeping this fast pace of development so help me!
    Last edited by Taiji; February 12, 2009 at 06:20 AM.

  20. #140

    Default Re: Battlefield Balance for DLV 6.x 12/02/09

    Hi Taji,

    First off: great work, we all appeciate it very much! I check the forum as much as possible and with these updates, it keeps my campaign even more interesting and challenging!

    I am a huge fan of pikes; is it possible that you don't really like them? :hmmm:
    It seems that they are getting weeker with every release of your mod... I pretty much get run over by much cheaper spear-units every time! Or am I wrong about that?

    I mean the pikes somehow revolutionized the art of warfare at this time (especially the Swiss I must add )

    still: keep it up, I'll download every version you release...


    greez,
    Hambi

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •