Deus lo Vult: Battlefield Balanced v4.36 <25/01/15>

**2-D Ron** · August 03, 2014, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Taiji

You'll get less stability and worse performance because of that.

Ideally your desktop and the game should be running at your screen's native resolution.

I'll give that go.

Also A Bug I've found trying to siege Dublin causes a CTD, I've tested it several times, can't get past this bug, you have to automate the results, which I always lose despite having 5 to 3 odds.

From what the log below is showing, looks to be something wrong with a Rebel Peasant texture? This has never happened in the past, has this been changed with newer patches?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Dublin Seige Bug CTD.zip

**G|I|Sandy** · August 03, 2014, 09:48 AM

Nice catch!

Apparently i have used slave instead of rebels in the texture name. This is due to irish kerns texture line in modeldb. Fixed. Simply copy paste the "data" folder and overwrite the files. I found some other small problems, but this should work for now.

Taiji, this includes the dismounted longbowmen model you requested. The one i sent earlier is obsolete. It would cause confusion later if you use the modeldb with the error.

Sandy

**Taiji** · August 03, 2014, 01:49 PM

I stuck it in the 'hotfix' file. Nice fast work, Sandy. And well done to Ron for helping.

**2-D Ron** · August 03, 2014, 07:00 PM

Huzzah! Bug Slain!

**LaMuerte** · August 04, 2014, 04:32 AM

Thanks for another awesome update , Taiji and Gemini][Sandy . Can't wait to try it out , though I seem to be hard pressed for free time these days.

**Taiji** · August 04, 2014, 05:58 AM

04/08/14 - DLV+BB4.31
- New supply system (beta)
-- Supply usage in enemy land variable on General and distance from capital.
-- Supply usage in home and neutral lands variable on General and distance from capital.
-- Besieging versions of the above.
-- Supply depletion while besieged.
-- Supply gain in settlements variable on General.
-- Supply gain in allied territory variable on Trusted Ally status
-- Supply gain within radius around capital variable on Ruler.
- A lot of tweaks and fixes here, there and everywhere.
New campaign recommended.

Yup, it's a beta. Don't use it if you don't want to help find problems. Fixes and future additions may not be save compatible.

@ LaMuerte, hi mate

**G|I|Sandy** · August 04, 2014, 09:43 AM

Is it just me or the hotfix3 is corrupt? I can't unpack it.

Sandy

**Taiji** · August 04, 2014, 10:07 AM

That was me being an idiot and renaming a .7z as a .zip by accident.

I've uploaded the proper version now. Thanks for pointing it out

**G|I|Sandy** · August 04, 2014, 10:34 AM

Still not working for some reason. I have winrar.

Sandy

**Taiji** · August 04, 2014, 11:11 AM

I thought that because I knew I'd done something dumb, it was that. But it was actually the kind of compression I was using. The version up now should work perfectly.

Thanks for letting me know about it, Sandy

edit:

By the way, sorry about the new supplies trait just consisting of asterisks and 'yum yum'.

Here's the traits so you can see what each level does:

Code:

Trait Supplies
	Characters family
	AntiTraits DepletedSupplies
	
	Level Supplies1
	Description Supplies1_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies1_effects_desc
	Threshold 7
	
	Effect MovementPoints 6
	Effect TroopMorale -2
	
	Level Supplies2
	Description Supplies2_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies2_effects_desc
	Threshold 14
	
	Effect MovementPoints 4
	Effect TroopMorale -1
	
	Level Supplies3
	Description Supplies3_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies3_effects_desc
	Threshold 21
	
	Effect MovementPoints 3
	
	Level Supplies4
	Description Supplies4_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies4_effects_desc
	Threshold 28
	
	Effect MovementPoints 2
	
	Level Supplies5
	Description Supplies5_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies5_effects_desc
	Threshold 35
	
	Effect MovementPoints 1
	Effect BattleSurgery 2
	
	Level Supplies6
	Description Supplies6_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies6_effects_desc
	Threshold 42
	
	Effect TroopMorale 1
	Effect BattleSurgery 4
	
	Level Supplies7
	Description Supplies7_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies7_effects_desc
	Threshold 49
	
	Effect TroopMorale 1
	Effect BattleSurgery 6
	
	Level Supplies8
	Description Supplies8_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies8_effects_desc
	Threshold 56
	
	Effect TroopMorale 2
	Effect BattleSurgery 8
	
	Level Supplies9
	Description Supplies9_desc
	EffectsDescription Supplies9_effects_desc
	Threshold 63
	
	Effect TroopMorale 2
	Effect BattleSurgery 10
	
Trait DepletedSupplies
	Characters family
	AntiTraits Supplies

	Level DepletedSupplies1
	Description DepletedSupplies1_desc
	EffectsDescription DepletedSupplies1_effects_desc
	Threshold 0

	Effect MovementPoints -10
	Effect TroopMorale -5
	Effect BattleSurgery -20

DepletedSupplies is the antitrait, which means when it's triggered, it's what depletes the supplies.

But it's also the state that a general winds up in when his supplies have been depleted.

I might add more levels to it.

So far the script has 281 triggers.

**2-D Ron** · August 04, 2014, 01:06 PM

Noticed that Civil War script was removed, does that mean the King can't offend the Influentials if he racks up debt or takes too long to be crowned etc.?

**Taiji** · August 04, 2014, 02:12 PM

Yeah, that's right. For now there's no negative loyalty consequences to debt or lacking a crown or moving a capital or anything else.

**G|I|Sandy** · August 04, 2014, 06:34 PM

I find that loyalty on all my generals is very high all the time (except when we had the civil war script). Is this caused by certain traits that belong to DLV or was it always like this? Now the chances of a general being bribed or becoming rebel are practically zero. It would be more fun if we had a way to increase loyalty by spending money or building certain buildings or having to make the general active like destroying a rebel army. There could be some kind of random chance of general losing loyalty (a new trait?). It should not be drastic 1-turn change as it used to be with civil war script. Instead it could be something that a player can foresee and take action (at a cost?). I just feel that as it is now, a fun aspect of the game engine is being underutilized.

I have brought this up before. I feel all my campaigns are rather static. AI does not attack for many turns, and allies are very loyal. Same thing for own generals. For example unappreciated generals lose a little loyalty, but still have 9 points. I really like the different general trait levels introduced by BB like lawmaker or miner. If this concept could somehow be extended onto some loyalty trait or support to the throne line. Some random chances + attention that the general gets could move it up or down. This would only be good for gameplay if a player had at least one or two actions that could positively affect the trait (not absolute control though) and random negative effects if a player does not pay attention to his generals. Distance to the capital, holy crusade (immune), the region a general is a governor in (the regional badges they get) could have different importance (from 1 to 3 or something). So a player could choose which generals are more important for him to be loyal. A city name could have a number, i guess. Just an idea. The point of all this is to make the static campaign more challenging and a little more random.

The army size limiter will prevent a player from recruiting units. As it is now, when the limit is reached, none of the recruitment options are available. Then, when space is created, all the recruitment restarts and no units are available for a couple of turns even though previously there were some units available (before limit was reached). Not sure if this is intended.

I don't seem to get mercenaries. Its been about 20-30 turns since i built mecrenary camp. Not the usual mercenaries, but the ones you get in your castle.

EDIT: archive working fine now. Thanks. And music came back with Kaiser's submod.

Sandy

**LaMuerte** · August 05, 2014, 08:34 AM

I've also noted that the loyalty score is kind of irrelevant as far as I know. Don't really take much notice of it , it doesn't really matter in my games. I know how to breed an authorative king , so never have any problems with disloyal generals. There's one feature from MTW1 that I truly miss in this game. Namely rebellions. Once you had a rebellion on your hand things could get out of hand real quick , with mass defections tearing your empire to shreds. Don't give that disloyal general a strong army , because he will join the rebellion. But you can't give him an army that's too weak , because your neighbours might invade. The biggest dangers in MTW1 were either getting destroyed by a rebellion , or being eaten by that 40 stack mongol army that arrivés in the 1200's. Both these events could seriously mess up your 'system'. Alas , someone told me MTW2's mechanics don't allow for such failure cascades anymore. (Yes , I'm a fan of failure cascades

)

**Taiji** · August 05, 2014, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by GeMiNi][SaNDy

I find that loyalty on all my generals is very high all the time (except when we had the civil war script). Is this caused by certain traits that belong to DLV or was it always like this? Now the chances of a general being bribed or becoming rebel are practically zero. It would be more fun if we had a way to increase loyalty by spending money or building certain buildings or having to make the general active like destroying a rebel army. There could be some kind of random chance of general losing loyalty (a new trait?). It should not be drastic 1-turn change as it used to be with civil war script. Instead it could be something that a player can foresee and take action (at a cost?). I just feel that as it is now, a fun aspect of the game engine is being underutilized.

I have brought this up before. I feel all my campaigns are rather static. AI does not attack for many turns, and allies are very loyal. Same thing for own generals. For example unappreciated generals lose a little loyalty, but still have 9 points. I really like the different general trait levels introduced by BB like lawmaker or miner. If this concept could somehow be extended onto some loyalty trait or support to the throne line. Some random chances + attention that the general gets could move it up or down. This would only be good for gameplay if a player had at least one or two actions that could positively affect the trait (not absolute control though) and random negative effects if a player does not pay attention to his generals. Distance to the capital, holy crusade (immune), the region a general is a governor in (the regional badges they get) could have different importance (from 1 to 3 or something). So a player could choose which generals are more important for him to be loyal. A city name could have a number, i guess. Just an idea. The point of all this is to make the static campaign more challenging and a little more random.

The army size limiter will prevent a player from recruiting units. As it is now, when the limit is reached, none of the recruitment options are available. Then, when space is created, all the recruitment restarts and no units are available for a couple of turns even though previously there were some units available (before limit was reached). Not sure if this is intended.

I don't seem to get mercenaries. Its been about 20-30 turns since i built mecrenary camp. Not the usual mercenaries, but the ones you get in your castle.

EDIT: archive working fine now. Thanks. And music came back with Kaiser's submod.

Sandy

It's hard to balance an expansion race into a rebel buffer to maximise replayability, heh. But what factions and difficulty are you talking about, where you say it's too static, and what are you doing? (saves really help to describe the circumstances)

About loyalty, good points, thanks for the ideas. I see some big gaps in the traits system myself and that's one of them.

I agree it would be nice to have more things to have to do with generals. Glad you like the perks system for general/governor/rogue, it's an effort in that direction. The new supplies system also adds something, in that we ought to be able to roam allied lands while remaining fully supplied now. So any war our ally is involved in is now something we can go get involved in without unrealistic problems.

Anyway, keep it coming. All good ideas, Sandy

Originally Posted by LaMuerte

I've also noted that the loyalty score is kind of irrelevant as far as I know. Don't really take much notice of it , it doesn't really matter in my games. I know how to breed an authorative king , so never have any problems with disloyal generals. There's one feature from MTW1 that I truly miss in this game. Namely rebellions. Once you had a rebellion on your hand things could get out of hand real quick , with mass defections tearing your empire to shreds. Don't give that disloyal general a strong army , because he will join the rebellion. But you can't give him an army that's too weak , because your neighbours might invade. The biggest danger in MTW1 were either getting destroyed by a rebellion , or being eaten by that 40 stack mongol army that arrivés in the 1200's. Both these events could seriously mess up your 'system'. If I remember correctly MTW2's mechanics don't allow for such failure cascades anymore. (Yes , I'm a fan of failure cascades

)

Me too on both.

MTW1 was awesome in that respect. But to pull off that feature with MTW2, which I think the Baron's alliance script in kingdoms improves upon, I'd have to cull 15 factions

(religious rebels were cool too, i remember)

And in DLV I never had loyalty problems once I learnt to play, it just restricted certain actions, because otherwise it buggered the game up for me. But I still really appreciate that aspect of vanilla DLV, and it's one of the reasons I've resisted suggestions to release DLV+BB as the next version of DLV.

**2-D Ron** · August 05, 2014, 01:54 PM

Aww Dang, one of the best parts of the game was seeing a general creep towards rebellion and slamming their ass into a dungeon.
Really put micro-management on a new level, you felt like a King grasping onto power.

One thing I think would be great is if the modding project manages to unlock hardcode limits on factions per game to create a Barons Alliance for each faction just to simulate a rebellion.

**Taiji** · August 05, 2014, 03:46 PM

It would be awesome to have 60 faction slots. But it's going to be a horrible job to add 30 factions worth of adjustments to battle_models.modeldb, I can tell you that much ;P

One of the things I didn't like about the DLV loyalty system was that, according to feedback and my own experience on more than a couple of occasions, the script just didn't work despite following the instructions. Sometimes it was fine, and very cool, sometimes not.

Solutions appeared like getting your king killed by pirates, or having accidents with stakes, or having him attempt to solo large enemy armies. I found those really jarring in terms of immersion.

Plus not being able to assassinate other nobles or send someone to strip their authority and relieve them of office.

And the elderly rebel who is utterly immobilised and can't even get to the capital, that was quite annoying, I'll admit it.

More accidents with pirates and stakes than anything though. It would have been great with tweaks if the script worked consistently.

To date there is no known reliable method to check for name, and that is what seems required to have a script like this become consistent in operation. It's not like I haven't given it a lot of consideration.

edit:

Originally Posted by GeMiNi][SaNDy

The army size limiter will prevent a player from recruiting units. As it is now, when the limit is reached, none of the recruitment options are available. Then, when space is created, all the recruitment restarts and no units are available for a couple of turns even though previously there were some units available (before limit was reached). Not sure if this is intended.

I don't seem to get mercenaries. Its been about 20-30 turns since i built mecrenary camp. Not the usual mercenaries, but the ones you get in your castle.

Somehow I missed these comments and so will answer them now:

It does indeed empty the unit pools the instant the unit limit is reached. There's no other practical way to do it that I'm aware of. It also empties the pools whenever there is no recruit option for that unit at the SettlementTurnStart event. Which made altering recruit speeds a bit difficult to work out and implement.

Merc camp offers seem to be on a 5% chance. So I suppose it may never happen. Possibly could do with fixing that. It's worth noting they also give you free upkeep for mercs. I'm not sure if I put that change on the building text or not.

**2-D Ron** · August 06, 2014, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Taiji

It would be awesome to have 60 faction slots. But it's going to be a horrible job to add 30 factions worth of adjustments to battle_models.modeldb, I can tell you that much ;P

One of the things I didn't like about the DLV loyalty system was that, according to feedback and my own experience on a couple of occasions, the script just didn't work despite following the instructions. Sometimes it was fine, and very cool, sometimes not.

Solutions appeared like getting your king killed by pirates, or having accidents with stakes, or having him attempt to solo large enemy armies. I found those really jarring in terms of immersion.

Plus not being able to assassinate other nobles or send someone to strip their authority and relieve them of office.

And the elderly rebel who is utterly immobilised and can't even get to the capital, that was quite annoying, I'll admit it.

More accidents with pirates and stakes than anything though. It would have been great with tweaks if the script worked consistently.

To date there is no known reliable method to check for name, and that is what seems required to have a script like this become consistent in operation. It's not like I haven't given it a lot of consideration.

I guess.
I could see the cheating involved in getting round the problem like you said just send the king on a trip to Dr Rebel General for a check up.

Maybe have rebels tied down to authority? The higher the more control you have, the less, the more rebellions break out?

Or Maybe have a points system like DLV has with Civil/Military.. Unlocking better buildings, only with this one the wrong decisions you make accumulate rebellion points triggering a large Rebellion to take place? (Rebel Spawns at Capital etc.)
Good decisions deduct points staving off rebellion?

**Taiji** · August 08, 2014, 06:32 AM

Here's a save from 61 turns into an English playtest of 4.31.

English-Spring-1195.zip

London was besieged by rebels while Southampton was in the process of being taken.

Having taken Southampton the army there came under threat of being besieged by a rebel force containing roughly 1000 more men than their own force.

And so the army there had to destroy that larger force before being able to relieve London, which it eventually did.

Flanders attempted to take York from the rebels and was repulsed, allowing England to take it while flanders held roughly 3000 rebels at bay to the north.

France has been blockading England's ports for 11 turns or so, but has so far only sent a force of around 400 men to check out the defenses at Caen.

The new smith in Nottingham is producing light mail in sufficient quantities to re-equip units that can use it.

After an altercation with some extremely fearsome pirates the fleet escaped into the Mediterranean, of all places, and now makes it's way back to home ports.

That's roughly the scenario. I've uploaded it in case someone fancies playing England with the usual early stuff done. If anyone has 4.31 saves at 30+ turns in I'm interested to check them out. Thanks.

**G|I|Sandy** · August 08, 2014, 07:46 AM

Unfortunately i am playing v4.30.

I take it back about campaigns being stagnant. Being HRE, my relation with Pope was low throughout the campaign. My main goal in this campaign is to fight south and destroy Papacy, Milan and Venice. After about 30 turns of peaceful expansion and fighting rebels Venice attacked me by blocking my port at Bologna. I married my heir to Hungarian princess and my princess to Byzantine heir. I felt that Venice had no chance since it was surrounded by my allies. Venice, however, was quite successful in taking several rebel settlements, and it even moved its capital over to castle Zara(!) - what a smart move. As in most campaigns, factions started to slowly pick sides and Venice has many allies now - including Milan and Flanders. I tried to persuade Milan started gathering all its troops at its borders right next to Bologna (currently at turn 69 - 5 full stacks!), where they were stationed for almost 20 turns now.

A stack went up through Alps and conquered my castle Innsbruck, which i quickly retook with my heir. All this time i was developing my heir as a rogue general with points into fear fighting rebels in the north. At turn 68 I gathered all experienced heavy troops and besieged Venice. Reinforcement stack came from Zagreb and I had to face 5000 with 2000 of my hardened men (main stack with my heir). I had heavy spearmen, merc xbows and light cavalry - good overall force. I beat their main stack and captured Venice but lost about 1000 of my men. Most unimaginable thing happened. During this turn end, my Holy Roman Emperor died, i was excommunicated, Hungary betrayed me, Sicily besieged Bologna, and a crusade was called on my city Venice! All in one turn... The only good thing is that i have plenty of militia in Bologna and Florence, but these won't match with the better quality and higher number combined troops of Milan, who are already in my lands. Byzantines however, stayed loyal and are now fighting Venice in the east. I am recruiting in all settlements, especially in Hohenstauffen hoping these reinforcements will make it on time to defend against crusaders. All this happened 3 days ago. I saved and plan to continue these weekends.

Crusade grows: Flanders, France, Milan, Venice, Hungary (betrayers). Pretty much all my neighbours, sweet.

Sandy

Thread: Deus lo Vult: Battlefield Balanced v4.36 <25/01/15>

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