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  1. #1

    Default The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Hey folks,

    I've started a game in Stainless Steel 6.1 (Real Recruitment, not Bry's Grim Reality though) as England (Albion ) on VH/VH.

    I want to be the best that I can be; I want the world to love me, I want my generals to be saints and paladins.

    To do this, I understand I need to:


    1. Not walk on territory that doesn't belong to me, and I don't have military access too - This means using boats and the long way round to reach areas.
    2. Not initiate war with people; and in battle, always end when requested, always occupy settlements, and always release prisoners - No matter what the cost or consequence.
    3. Not to use Assassins.
    Now I played a similar game in the past along these lines and ended up with my reputation to the world as 'Immaculate' - Everyone loved me; they didn't dare start wars, and I had factions throwing their Princesses at me for marriage and allegiances (However, I try to keep allegiances to where you really need them, as things get messy when 2 allies start fighting one another, or your allies start getting pee'd off because you're needed to fight fronts in Germany, France, Spain and Italy...).

    Unfortunately I lost that game due to a virus , but I'm starting over. It was a good game actually, I had all of Britain, Normandy, Scandanavia, and a little pocket in central France - All obtained by defeating rebels, and using military access to walk through France.

    Now, I'm wanting to know other tips that can help me...


    1. It's a practise of mine to have a priest in every settlement; this ensures religion is always 95%+ and I've found multiple times that the priests gain amazing traits without even moving; so much so that I end up with 8+ seats in the College of Cardinals; thus, every Pope is mine! What I would like to know though, is will keeping Priests with my generals on the map improve their Chivalry and Piety?
    2. I know the use of Assassins is dubious, but what about spies? This is a tricky one so I need specifics if possible - Is it detremental to use them to spy abroad, is it detremental to keep them in my own towns to keep 'Corruption' expenditures down and enemy spies out? Is it detremental to even have Brothels (ergo Inn's & Stagecoaches) in my towns where the potential to recruit spies becomes available, and generals can gain traits like wenches and becoming drunkards? Further to the above, do Thieve's Guildhouses affect my relations with the world?
    3. I read that bribing has no affect on diplomatic relations; would people not look down on me for paying small gatherings of rebels money to get them to go away, instead of crushing them underfoot?
    4. Eventually I will run out of rebel settlements and need to start taking territory; what is the best way to instigate war whilst maintaining the higher ground? Will initiating combat with non-Christian factions affect my diplomatic standing? Will initiating combat with excommunicated Christian factions affect my diplomatic standing?
    5. The AI is prone to making rash declarations of war; such as attacking a passing troop, or blockading a port for a turn - A ceasefire is the immediate option, but what if you use this to your advantage (attack Scotland, for example) without offering them the ceasefire, knowing full well it would be a 'Generous' offer; would that affect your diplomatic standing?
    6. Am I missing anything else that could potentially help/hinder me in my attempt to become the most noble & pious Kingdom the world has ever seen?
    If you can offer any answers to these questions, or any tips that will help me give rise to the most do-gooder Kingdom the known world has ever seen, I will be eternally grateful.

    I may even report back from time to time to let you know how things're going, screenshots as well! Infact, it's only been a few turns but I'll let you in already seeing as you'll (hopefully) be helping me:

    ------------------------------------------------------------


    To start the game off, I took Prince William out of Nottingham and besieged the rebel town of York knowing full well that if I didn't, Scotland would (straight away), whilst simultaneously pumping units up from Winchester (which is becoming a town) and out of Nottingham to support - York is now under English rule.



    Gregory Darnley, my only non-blood related general has recieved the Privy Seal and sits atop the throne in London as Regent of England, in the absense of King William the Conquerer; who is currently besieging the rebel settlement Caernavron.



    (Prince?) Robert, Duke of Normandy has gathered some early support in Caen and is besieging the rebel settlement Rennes.



    I have obtained trade rights and map information from Scotland; usually I wouldn't do this knowing full well I'd be breaking the treaty in a few turns to become King of Britain, but being the chivalrous ruler I am, I will leave Scotland, to the Scottish - But rest assured I have my eye on them, and will be prepared to rule Britain should they dare raise a finger against me.



    Knowing I could do without being attacked in Normandy whilst conquering England and possibly rebel Scandanavia, and that their Princess is particular exceptional, I have married my Princess to France's Prince, and likewise, my Prince (William) to their Princess, thus entwining us in a strong alliance; we also share trade rights, map information, and mutual military access. It's only been a turn, but the new happy couple (on my side) have wasted no time getting into bed, and now have given birth to the heir of the heir, Geoffrey Plantagenet.



    Finally, my merchant rides for the rich resources of the Rhineland (a bulb-bottomed vial outside Frankfurt?), and my only spy, Richard, has been called back to London to look out for trouble (As above, I don't want to use him, but it's too early in the game to sink him at sea and lose my ferry-lines).



    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Heskey; January 20, 2009 at 03:20 AM.

  2. #2
    delra's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    If you want to provoke AI into attacking you, just leave a border settlement without proper garrison, hide your stack in nearby woods and wait for them to take the bait.

    You can always encourage them to attack by ruining your relations via diplomacy. Make them a couple of offers they decline and you're down to hostile relations.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    One way to build a good global relationship, is to approach friendly factions and tell them who you're going to attack, and then "keep your word" by attacking. This boosts your relations with them and globally.

    For example, before you attacked York, you could send a diplomat to Scotland, and offer them "Attack Faction: Rebels" as a gift.

    Also, declaring War on a faction you have "trade Rights" with, is considered breaking an agreement.
    As for the Paladin, the battle with the Dragon isn't the danger, it's the battle in the heart that he must be wary of.




  4. #4

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleitanious View Post
    One way to build a good global relationship, is to approach friendly factions and tell them who you're going to attack, and then "keep your word" by attacking. This boosts your relations with them and globally.

    For example, before you attacked York, you could send a diplomat to Scotland, and offer them "Attack Faction: Rebels" as a gift.


    I sometimes use this as a sweetner in diplomatic negotiations to make something sound better than it is; but yes, I'll start using it just as a gift

    Does anyone have any info on the other questions raised?

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    A good way I found is making sure there are always rebel settlements. Using an occasional spy and a few good cardinals you can easily turn around a settlement's population from Islam to Catholic, causing enormous unrest. Wait nearby for the settlement to rebel, then take it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by kosmosje1 View Post
    A good way I found is making sure there are always rebel settlements. Using an occasional spy and a few good cardinals you can easily turn around a settlement's population from Islam to Catholic, causing enormous unrest. Wait nearby for the settlement to rebel, then take it.
    Ohh, That's a really good idea. You know, i never thought of using priests offensively!
    As for the Paladin, the battle with the Dragon isn't the danger, it's the battle in the heart that he must be wary of.




  7. #7

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Ahh but the problem with that you see, is Islamic factions are quite far from me, and also, it depends on whether or not it's deemed as bad for a catholic faction to initiate war with a non-Catholic faction?

    On that same note, is it deemed good or bad to ruthlessly slaughter members of the opposing religion; or will that still count towards dread rather than chivalry etc?

  8. #8
    Aegon's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    It will count towards dread if you kill prisoners, no matter which religion they belong to.

    It will also have a negative impact on your reputation if you attack a islamic faction, although it will raise your reputation with the pope. (and maybe other catholic factions, but I'm not sure about that...)


    Using spies will get your king some traits but I don't think they increase his dread. You might want to check that, unfortunately I forgot the name of the trait. (something like master of spies? I don't know...) However, I wouldn't use spies too much, I'm pretty sure it hurts your relations with the faction you're spying on if you get caught. I don't think you'll have any negative effects from having your spies in your own cities.

    Building brothels may give your generals in the city negative traits (connected to drinking and prostitution) so I wouldn't build them if you don't have to.

    As far as I know, bribing has a negative influence on your faction relations with the faction you are bribing the units from. But you have to do it a lot and I don't think it will hurt your global standing. I once tried to help out the HRE against Genoa and bribed every army that crossed the border into the Empire. It was fun but very expensive and Genoa soon hated me...
    Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.
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  9. #9
    Mune's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Cleitanious and Kosmos advice is certainly good (keep in mind using priests offensively is fine for diplomacy but using spies in enemy settlements is slightly unchivalrous) and Delra's advice will help spice things up later when expansion options are limited. Now, on to the list of questions:

    First, your list of 3 golden rules is a good one, but let me ammend that your decision to not tromp through enemy territory only applies to your armies. Walking a priest or princess through France wont anger anyone, for example.

    As to question 1, first let me mention that the British isle is one of the easiest places in the world to keep catholic. Keeping a priest in every city is certainly beneficial at first when they start between 80-90% Catholic, but consider using them more effectively once your nations start to hit 95%+ Catholic rating. A couple levels of church should keep it there or higher, so keeping a priest there as a rule may be limiting your offensive capability with priests (since you can only have so many, which by the way you should strive to have as many priests as possible at all times). As you've noticed, keeping a priest in an area high with their religiion (and with a good sized church) can result in some good traits and ancillaries, but so can having them convert non-catholic regions and/or fight off heretics. So, I recommend you also use them to keep neighbors free of heretics (which in turn helps keep you free of heretics, if they are close by) and occasionally send groups of priests into the lands of the heathens, IE Pagans and Islamics. As England, I usually end up sending an expedition of 4-6 Priests and 1-2 spies (optional in your case) down to the Moors to keep things interesting once I feel I can spare them (say, turn 20-35). Now I see I've digressed from the actual question, so let me mention that keeping a priest with your armies can potentially increase your generals (of those armies) piety rating, if you so desire.

    Question 2, using spies against other factions is slightly detrimental to your faction relations and reputation, particularly if they get caught. Using spies defensively in your own settlements does not (as far as I know). What I do when playing the good guy, and I'll recommend to you, is to choose at least one town (say, one out of every 5 or 6 you have as time goes by) to be a place of less repute. Produce as high a level of Brothel (IE Coaching House etc.) as you like in these cities, just make sure to either have them be ungoverned by any generals or place a non-family general for whom you care little about in these cities. As England, I usually chose York and Dublin as my places of ill repute, but that's just my choice and it matters little. I wouldn't recommend choosing your high population cities however, as a governor will help them grow and make you more money, so smaller towns would make more sense to me.

    Question 3, don't bother bribing rebels. Instead, use them as a free chance to gain chivalry. When playing the good guy, one of the annoyances I find is having enough badguys to kill (giving me a sense of fulfillment in my do-gooder ways, and if nothing else giving me something to do). Think of it this way; If you are a good and noble ruler creating an empire anyone should want to live in, then those who rebel in your own lands must certainly be evil. They want to bring down your empire of goodness for whatever reasons of evil or greed they have in mind. Such people should be put down as the monsters they are, and your loyal and peace-loving citizens should thank you for it. Now, onto the real game mechanics part of this fantasy. Check out what the rebel army consists of, and attack them with a lesser force, giving you a chance to gain some chivalry for your general in the process. In most cases (particularly early game) this will mean sending a general and his bodyguards out alone to defeat a small army of 2 or 3 groups of infantry type units. In most cases, it will calculate odds slightly against you (meaning a chance to gain chivalry should you win) and the battle itself shouldn't be too difficult, as even 8 bodyguards and a general can take on a stack of peasants, peasant archers and maybe some spearmen or whatever they happen to have. Should you need more assistance feel free to bolster your army with more than just a general, just make sure the odds are still against you. In rare cases, the rebel army is so pathetic that even a single general unit will have the odds in your favor. In these cases, send some levy spearmen or peasants or whatever instead, foregoing the chance to gain chivalry in favor of getting a chance at a 'man of the hour' (and just plain old getting rid of those pesky rebels who should never be tolerated to live for more than the turn in which they appeared). Just always make sure that the odds are always against you in battle, and you will still be on the path of good. As a side note, definitely don't let the rebels live beyond the turn they appear, as a problem I sometimes have (in England especially) is that if I take a turn to move the units I want specifically to perform the battle but wont actually reach the rebels in that same turn, then next turn they will be hidden in the woods somewhere. In some cases, this turns into an all-out manhunt which sometimes turns quite futile, wasting time marching generals through the woods just to come up empty handed. As time goes by, I'll see dark spots in my land (where enemy armies are or have been settled) but may still be unable to find the pesky army itself. It's frustrating to be sure, but he moral of the story is to use a general or whatever which can reach the rebels in the same turn, and don't get caught up too much in trying to get every point of chivalry possible for a particular general who may take two or more turns of walking to actually reach the rebels. Just kill them quickly.

    In question 4, you present the solution right after asking the question. Attacking the heathen armies (Pagans, Muslims, etc.) or excommunicated Catholics is the solution. Just go about it in the usual Chivalrous fashion you have already stated. If you can possibly get them to declare war on you first, all the better (or rather, thats the only way to have no negative impact at all on your reputation, however small it may be in these select cases). If they are in far-flung parts of the world (IE you boated an army down to the Moors and want to make some war) then having them declare war on you first can be tricky. If you were careful and planned ahead, then the best possible situation to be in in this case is to have already made a rebel settlement via your priest/spy invasion in which you can capture. Once you own some land which was previously owned by the Moors, now they have a reason to actually attack you. Next of course is to get them to actually go to war with you, which can be as easy as waiting it out (they're sure to want their settlement back) or use some of the advice already mentioned. Such as, have the settlement with little defenses, reject any offers such as trade or sharing maps (which would improve relations), or if needed make them some bogus offers via doplomacy which they are sure to reject (thus lowering their relationship with you). Or, if all else fails, have a small single-stack army take a walk through their lands. Expanding in a chivalrous fashion is not easy to be sure, and sometimes we must make small evils which will be overshadowed by our greater deeds of good (in the name of expanding our empire). Making war agains't excommunicated Catholic nations is a little different, as we can't exactly perform the aforementioned priest invasion which makes things easier against our far-flung Pagan or Muslim targets. Instead, we must hope that the excommunicated faction is one of our neighbors, in which case they have reason to possibly make war with us first anyway in the name of their own worldly empire expansion. Other than waiting for war, you can do the same tactics mentioned above to help them want a war with you, but in many cases the excommed faction has enough to worry about. In these cases, another option is to offer to go to war with then on behalf of any ally who is already at war against said faction, or just start the fight yourself with the benefit of appeasing the Pope (as in, choosing to take a tiny hit in your overall reputation with the added benefit of appeasing the Pope, which ends up as an overall gain in the big scheme of things). The same can be done in the case of Muslims and Pagans as well as needed or as opportunities present. For example, maybe your allied with Spain who is at war with the Moors, or maybe the Pope has called a Crusade on the Moors, in which case you could start the fight and have enough benefits to outweigh the small amount of reputation damage done by starting a war in the first place. Choices become difficult when attempting to play as the 'good guys', and lesser evils must sometimes be committed in the name of expansion. Just make sure that there are the maximum number of benefits to outweigh the downside, and in the end you usually still end up better off or at least on equal standing as before.

    Question 5, another choice of committing a lesser evil in hopes that the benefits outweigh the downside. The bottom line is that they have indeed started the war, and you have been presented with an opportunity to expand into their lands in retribution. I would recommend that you make sure that your retribution not be greater than the initial evil done to you by this new enemy, particularly if they are also a Catholic nation. For a specific example, lets say that Scotland was neutral to you, but decided to attack and sink one of your spare boats used for ferrying. How dare they! Now, what would be the best way to retaliate in equal fashion and not risk reputation damage or a lowered standing with the Pope? One answer would be to sink one or more of their fleets, then either wait for further attacks on you (demanding further retribution) or offer a generous ceasefire, maybe with an added demand of some money to make it more worthwhile. Or as an additional variable, lets say that when they sunk your boat, they were already in pretty bad standing with the Pope and may soon be excommunicated. In this case, it might be better to wait until said excommunication, in which case you have an added benefit of appeasing the Pope when you do decide to retaliate for this injustice. Or, maybe Scotland has attacked one of your cities (either as the initial attack or after sinking your boat, whatever), in which case you could retaliate by taking the city back (if it fell) and/or taking one of their cities (then offering a ceasefire). Bottom line, just make sure your counter-attack does not overshadow the damage they have done to you, or you may risk losing standing with the Pope and possible reputation damage. But hey, if the Pope happens to give the OK (excomms them) then go all out, do your damage, and be ready to stop if they become reconciled. Keeping tabs on the Pope's age can certainly help in this regards.

    Question 6, with all the above having been said, and with the knowledge you've already presented as having known, I'd say your ready to go. Just remember what I've said about spies. Keep your King and Prince as the most Chivalrous, Pious, Authorative weapons in your arsenal. If you happen to have born a Prince with some questionable traits, maybe see that he foolishly enters a battle too big for him and dies valiantly (they'll remember him for his good traits and probably enjoy the alternative Prince a little better as well). Keep your good men out of those little towns known more for their Brothels than their Churches. ALWAYS do battle with the odds against you, as I'm sure you like a challenge anyway. Keep your priests busy and plentiful, and always make sure that the Pope likes you best (even if it takes some cash gifts here and there).

    Enjoy your game, I've done the same type of scenario plenty of times. Being good is always harder than being bad, and who doesn't like a good challege?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Wow, that is one hell of a post! Thanks to all of you for answering all my questions, I will certainly use them to advantage tonight when I'm home from work.

    All questions bar one, however

    What affect, other than greater view distance, does having a spy in your armies bring? I heard in the distant past somewhere that it would allow you to see hostile deployment, so as to best place your own?
    Last edited by Heskey; January 19, 2009 at 09:07 AM.

  11. #11
    Mune's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    I can't claim to know the answer to your new question entirely (I'd like to) as I don't often keep any non-fighting units with my armies, but I can think of one answer. Having a spy in your army will make that army more resistant to enemy spies (and possibly assassins) as you can spot them as they walk nearby (and also increasing the chance they get caught should they choose to spy on your army). I've heard it can make some changes in battle if you have a spy in your army, such as seeing their deployment when you deploy your army (I don't think this would apply should you attack a settlement though since they deploy after you) but I cannot state this with certainty as I haven't seen as such. It would also give you the option to send your spy into your target settlement beforehand (giving a chance to open the gate), but thats pretty much a given. Of course, you would also have the benefit of having a spy in your newly captured settlement after the siege was done (less corruption, more spy-resistant, etc.). Hopefully someone else will have a more thorough answer for you.

    Sorry for the previous super-long reply as well, I tend to ramble. It's hard to tell how long your post is going to be until you actually hit 'Post'.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Hey your super massive post was awesome mate. I wish I had more questions for you to answer!

    Well I guess I'll stick a priest & spy with every roaming army then, but obviously not use them for infiltration

    Oooh, I can imagine having a Princess or Diplomat is good for traveling armies too? It'd be a bit like they intend Empires to be, whereby the Generals themselves talk to people for diplomacy


    Infact, here's a question for you; what are the best units for England to use as regular field armies, and what would you suggest in a 20 stack? I'd love to make the best use I can out of longbowmen, but what I'm more refering to is...

    Shock troops? Heavy Bills or Dismounted Knights?
    Anti-Cavalry? Sergeant Spearmen or Dismounted Knights?

    Stuff like that
    Last edited by Heskey; January 19, 2009 at 10:49 AM.

  13. #13
    Inhuman One's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Just take your time to build up and have your chivalrous kingdom. Try to live at peace for a change, it can be quite nice.

    Of course you need to have troops ready to crush rebels and you can greatly build up your cities. If a conflict happens, it happens.

    I personly enjoyed a france campaign like this, I really made quite a feudal system with sons and inlaws inheriting what should be theirs. Since Burgundy is not a faction but I did have a general there I married him to a princess and kind of made his family the Burgundian rulers, their heritage being indicated by their last name. Anything under that branch would represent Burgundy and they would try to get a hold of other territories. Eventually they got Leon since there was no Heir for Leon.

    I kind of gave each city their own garrison, flavored by the enviroment and the traits of its first ruler, and sometimes adapted to more modern armies and new rulers.

    This probably wouldnt work well for a small faction but could be great to do with a large faction like France and the HRE.

  14. #14
    Gnostiko's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by Heskey View Post
    Hey folks,

    1. Not initiate war with people; and in battle, always end when requested, always occupy settlements, and always release prisoners - No matter what the cost or consequence.
    2. Not to use Assassins.
    Huh...you learn something new everyday; does the end/continue battle (choosing continue) really affect your reputation?

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostiko View Post
    [/list]Huh...you learn something new everyday; does the end/continue battle (choosing continue) really affect your reputation?
    I don't know if it affects your reputation, but it definately affects your chivalry/dread; and probably your relations with that faction also. When they request to end the battle they're basically asking for mercy - If you deny it and run them through with a few cavalry charges, well, that doesn't make your general very merciful

    -------------------------------------------------------

    With England now under the rule of the Plantagenet dynasty, the armies of King & Prince William combine in Wales, but seeing as Ireland is now entirely ruled by the Irish, circumvent southern England by sea, picking up Prince Robert along the way from the now English controlled Rennes and overshoot Bruges (Now Scottish owned ) to capture Antwerp (now a town), Metz, and Groningen.

    Factions are loving me, specifically the Pope and my ally, France - But I have trade rights with most others.

    Unfortunately, Scotland were stronger than I anticipated, and rather than waiting for them to get pushed back from Bruges having significantly weakened the Flemish fiends, they actually captured it. This isn't a problem in terms of conquest, as it's a small town next to quite a large castle (Caen), but unfortunately this grip on the mainland has allowed them to get friendly with the other factions and act as a point of diplomacy - Now France, Scotland, and Leon-Castille have entered into some Tri-Alliance; so it worries me where France may stand should Scotland decide to strike. :hmmm:

    For now though, I take a few turns for much needed R&R for my troops before sailing North, to invade the still rebelious regions of Scandanavia

    The Holy Roman Empire has an army tromping around my regions however, so I'll be watching them - Cologne, Bern & Staufren (sp?) look tasty

    Lastly; the happy marriage of Prince William to the lovely Constance Capet was not to be; a turn after birthing his son, he's ran off with a foreign fruitcake, become a fan of astrology, and my other generals are afflicted with pnuemonia!! It's very difficult to keep my generals chivalrous, pious, and good commanders - A 6 Piety Inquisitor is now sniffing around Groningen where Prince Robert (2 Piety) is stationed; in a few turns however, he'll be sailing north.
    Last edited by Heskey; January 20, 2009 at 03:38 AM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    I actually found an upgraded version of the priest/spy invasion: one supported by an army of heritics. A good priest entering a predominantly muslim area that has already 2 heretics running around will loose 'native' population quickly. After the settlement rebels and you have it, you clean up the heretics and remove the unrest quite quickly (aided by the extra piety circlets from removing the heretics). The only danger is that this plan misfires and all your priests turn heretic

  17. #17
    Mune's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    In reply to your question on military unit use and combinations:

    Your unit composition would depend a bit on what addons you use. And of course as a given, better units are, well, better (as in armored seargents better than levy spearmen, etc.), so use the best you have as they come.

    Here's a bit of what I'd recommend:

    Early game, make a beeline towards Longbows (IE make sure you can produce Longbows from Nottingham ASAP). Use these in abundance, and upgrade them as your highest castle allows (as in, after Nottingham becomes a Fortress, first building produced is next level of archery range). Remember that they have stakes. During castle defense seiges, have one or two of your defending Longbows place a row of stakes just behind your front gate.

    Take note that Levy Spearmen (depending on your version but I believe these apply to most) have Shieldwall formation and can be produced in both Towns and Castles. They will be your staple defense units (as in, in front of your longbows) for at least some time. They are fairly good at it, especially with some armor upgrades and clever use of Shieldwall. Armor upgrades benefit your low-armor base-level Longbowmen as well.

    You are likely to get a Woodsmens Guild, probably in Nottingham. The Robin-Hood type units you get are unique, and somewhat hard to implement in battle. These things may vary depending on version and addons, but in general they are small-sized (half the number of men per unit), poor armored, with a high range damage and a good armor-piercing melee attack. I found two main uses for them, but both are fairly suicidal so don't get too attached to these units. One, is to have them part of your main (large) armies and during battle placement, put them in the woods away from your army in a good ambush spot. Have them flank the enemy army with arrows once the main clash begins, and hope that they don't send anything too strong to counter them. Second use is for suprise attacks, meaning you stick a bunch of them in the woods (on the main campaign map) at choke-points between you and enemies. They perform suprise attacks on any enemy stacks that try to pass, doing good damage but usually these are suicide missions meant to slow the progress of your enemy armies. Throwing a few Levy Spearmen or whatever in the mix for these suprise attack armies isn't a bad idea either.

    I recommend using two groups of Billmen (the best type you have) in your main (large) armies. These will be placed one on either side of your line of archers, preferably behind some tougher units (Billmen seem to not take well agains't a well-formed cavalry charge). Use them to engage cavalry or armored infantry units who attempt to flank your line of archers. As long as they are not charged, these guys take cavalry down pretty quickly, and can do reasonably well against armored foot units. Don't make the mistake of using pure Billmen as your anti-charge units though, they just don't do well enough at it.

    For anti-chargers, either placed in front of your archers or just behind (brought forward once a melee battle is eminent) use Levy Spearmen, Armored Seargents or Dismounted English Knights. Note that the DEK's are expensive and you wont have them for a while, so they are generally mixed in with cheaper units as well. However, these are your best anti-charge units you've got. High armor, armor-piercing attack with bonus damage to cavalry (like the Levy Spears and AS's, only 4 damage though). Note that England does not get any 8-bonus long spear units, so work with what you've got.

    You've got a pretty standard selection of sword-wielding men as well. These are your general purpose types, and they perform best against other melee infantry. Make sure to have some of these when defending a settlement against a siege, as things don't end up too well if all you've got in your castle/town are spears and billhooks to defend the walls/gate.

    Note that your mounted English Knights (also a late unit) have axes as their secondary weapon, which have the armor-piercing trait. This is England's one redeeming factor when it comes to their cavalry, which is otherwise standard or sub-par (as in, Feudal Knights, decent but standard, or Hobillars, which are utter crap). This will give them an edge in those all-too-common cavalry on cavalry melee fights, so remember that when deciding what to do with your English Knights.

    As to a generic English 20-stack army which I would use, I'm going to assume we are in the mid-high time period (meaning you probably just barely got some English Knights to play with). Adjust accordingly to what you have available to you:

    1 General and his Bodyguards
    1 or 2 English Knights
    2 Trebuchets
    6 to 8 Longbows (best available, be it standard, Yeomen or Retinue)
    2 to 4 Swordsmen (Men at Arms, DFK's, etc.)
    1 or 2 Armored Seargents
    1 or 2 Dismounted English Knights
    2 Billmen (best available, be it standard, armored, etc.)

    General battle formation should look like this:

    Place your army at the top of a hill, facing towards where the enemy will approach from.
    Archers lined up even in front, with stakes placed in front of them. Best to stretch out your archers to about 3 men deep, which will allow small gaps inbetween the stakes. This seems to intice the enemy more to make their assault at the stakes and not go around.
    Two Trebuchets behind your archers, at the center of their line.
    Place your melee infantry units stretched behind the line of archers, ready to push past to get in front of them to battle the enemy at the stakes if/when the time comes. You have different types of melee infantry, so mix them up in some sort of pattern to provide multi-purpose defense against whatever comes up the hill at you. Have your billmen be near or at the outside ends of this line of melee infantry.
    Have your cavalry either behind your army, ready to maneuver where needed, or (what I do) place them to one side or the other (or both) of your main army, in a good position to charge down at the enemy when needed. Be careful of friendly fire, particularly from the Trebuchets.

    Let me note that Trebuchets are another good unit to try to have ASAP (aside from your archers). I find once I have Trebuchets, the enemy almost always comes to me (marches up the hill to my well defended area). This is because they outrange most units, thus causing the enemy to come to you. This makes sense, since otherwise you could just march your army to within Trebuchet range of theirs and just pelt them to death if they don't come to you.
    Last edited by Mune; January 20, 2009 at 10:21 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mune View Post
    Story
    You are describing a rather ideal situation in which your armies can easily be trained to the notch at Nottingham and have the stamina and ability to reach the place where they need to win battles. Of course, the Chivalry-method won't allow you for the great rush of the army, but I have found that I simply cannot keep up my troop numbers high enough to go through a slogging match with the enemy for many battles. Rather, I soon find myself merging and replacing all units, as you can often not withdraw from the area you assault or the enemy will rebuild.

    If you make your army for durability, I recommend doing the following in the buildup:
    1 young general (he needs to last for quite a while. Those stars will come as long as you do battles yourself)
    4-8 spearmen. This is the meat of your army. They will always take a beating, but you can always replace them, anywhere you are.
    6-8 Longbows. Mix this up with both Retinue and normal Longbows. Retinues are better, but the normals are far easier to replace. Should you drop down a unit due to losses, replace them with crossbowmen.
    2-4 Heavy Cavalry. Doesn't really matter what type. I find that in battles they either get decimated or survive with minimal losses. So either you need to get your hands on a whole new unit, or you don't need to replace any of them.
    0-7 Melee mercenaries. The mercenaries are good, depending on the mix you put together you can either be a strong placeholder, good flankers or something in between. Macemen, Mercenary Spearmen and Scots Mercenary Pikemen are heroes to my knowledge. These guys can easily gain up to 6 experience before their number drops too low.

    This army is -if you're a perfectionist- rather bad. It will take losses, sometimes heavy (1:2 casualty rate). Generally, especially if you know your game, it will suffice long enough to keep it going. As long as your losses are not mounting so fast that you cannot replace them, you are in the clear. The mercenaries are expensive, but expendable. Count on them having only a short service time before you disband or merge them.

    The use of spearmen has another advantage: They can garrison cities and be replaced in any city. This means that you can quickly keep moving with your field army, while you have your ready-to-go spearmen garrison with you all the time.

    You can return to a full elite army the moment you start encountering the bulk of your enemies forces. Forced into a corner, a faction will start to truely challenge you with its own elite armies, against which your rubbish army will have a harder time. When that happens: Seek shelter in a city (sieges favour bad armies more than elite armies) or build your own elite army to punch through. When you switch to that tactic, your rubbish army can follow to garrison conquered settlements, or guard chokepoints where they can hold out.

    Note that generally artillery will slow your stacks down. Use them only when the war front is static, not when you want to chase and defeat 5 stacks in a turn.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Well we've hit a problem! Leon-Castille landed 2 units in Exeter a while back but did nothing, so I just left them be - Now a diplomat is no where near to bribe them no matter how many times I retake my last turn, and the army attacks Exeter...

    Now as I mentioned, Scotland, Leon-Castille, and France are all allies, and I'm allied with France - Well, not anymore after Leon-Castille attacks me!

    I suppose I can bribe off the army and re-work relations with France; who knows, maybe they won't attack me regardless? Though having two allies on either side of my boarders is a little un-nerving...
    :hmmm:

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Chivalric Kingdom of Albion

    Quote Originally Posted by Heskey View Post
    Well we've hit a problem! Leon-Castille landed 2 units in Exeter a while back but did nothing, so I just left them be - Now a diplomat is no where near to bribe them no matter how many times I retake my last turn, and the army attacks Exeter...

    Now as I mentioned, Scotland, Leon-Castille, and France are all allies, and I'm allied with France - Well, not anymore after Leon-Castille attacks me!

    I suppose I can bribe off the army and re-work relations with France; who knows, maybe they won't attack me regardless? Though having two allies on either side of my boarders is a little un-nerving...
    :hmmm:
    I would actually expect France to break any alliances with Leon-Castille if they are faced with the choice between you and Leon-Castille...

    You are allowed to defend yourself against these Unchivalric hellions and throw them out of the United Kingdom.

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