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Thread: the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

  1. #1
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default the Seven Years War mod (originally: asking for permission.)

    Hi!

    I am asking permission from this team to use parts of your models for some models I'm am making (or learning to make). these models I'm making are mostly french and indian war material, so I'm mostly making rangers and jersey blues at the moment. might expand to European powers as well.

    I also ask permission to use your mod to test the new units and to play with them. (basically, to minimod your mod).

    I promise to attribute all material from your team going into making the models. but I will make no guarantee of relesing the mini mod.


    thanks in advance.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  2. #2
    Lord Dakier's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Well if your learning then its for personal use and if its for personal use its pretty much 'go and take'... I cant see why they wont let you mini mod it though. Just make sure you finish the darn thing if you do a modern day thing.
    We Came, We Saw, We Ran Away!

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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dakier View Post
    Well if your learning then its for personal use and if its for personal use its pretty much 'go and take'... I cant see why they wont let you mini mod it though. Just make sure you finish the darn thing if you do a modern day thing.

    thanks! I only ask for permission for a mini mod making as a standard practice when starting a mini mod.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  4. #4

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Hi. You are more than welcome to play around with the units and models. As for permission to actually release something, it would be better if you asked after you had some examples of your work to show.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Braindead Colonel View Post
    Hi. You are more than welcome to play around with the units and models. As for permission to actually release something, it would be better if you asked after you had some examples of your work to show.


    as soon as I get a fraps picture, I'll show you a few examples of the models proper (I'm mostly done actually-need brushups for skins). to give you an idea of what I plan to release, here is a leib-battalion I member(they're not part of the project-its overwhelmingly from the colonies):
    http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ustedlapel.jpg

    the model was courtesy of a former member, Attlia reloaded, who provided a download link to the model. I've practically finished it, and added a few things to it.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  6. #6
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    In case anyone wonders, its still going: its just slower now, due to college. I just revamped the redcoats, but no pics available.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  7. #7
    Gen.jamesWolfe's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.jamesWolfe View Post
    In case anyone wonders, its still going: its just slower now, due to college. I just revamped the redcoats, but no pics available.
    and here is the WIP (I just realized its a mess, but it should work):

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OYFQU2JL


    just unzip it where your Rome: total war file is. it has the same modfolder name as Napoleonic: total war, so I seriously recommend renaming/backing up the napoleonic: total war mod file(s) you currently have. (WARNING: skins suck..)

    e.g: rename Napoleonic to "napoleonic2" and then unzip the mod. then, if you want to re-use the original napoleonic, just rename the unzipped one to "napoleonic 3".


    I would like to thank EW:TW's team, as well as N2TW's team, for the permission to work.

    playable factions: the usual Napoleonic factions (except the netherlands and portugal)+romans_julii (in the mod, its hesse-kassel). DO NOT play any others-it CTD's immediately on clicking to begin battle.




    EDIT: if anyone can get Denmark and all the other factions to work on the battlefield, I'd be very grateful. I did manage to finish the danes in a basci format, but everytime I want to use them, the game CTD's without even loading
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; January 17, 2010 at 08:46 PM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  8. #8

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Sounds interesting, and I'd like to try it out, however, when I DL (tried both links), all I get is a zip with a 14.6 MB RomeTW.exe... that doesn't seem right. :o


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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackx View Post
    Sounds interesting, and I'd like to try it out, however, when I DL (tried both links), all I get is a zip with a 14.6 MB RomeTW.exe... that doesn't seem right. :o


    I do have a shortcut and Napoleonic modfolder in it, at least in theory. I did NOT attach an executable.


    run your N2:TW mod, and see what happens. I think that might explain it. if not, I'll see for myself and reupload if that is indeed the case
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  10. #10

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    As stated, I got nothing but that .exe from both DLs once I unpacked them. Naturally, I didn't throw that into any directory, so my NTW2 is still unchanged.
    Trying the DLs again now... but I fear that something went wrong with the uploads.

    Edit:
    This is all I get from the DLs
    Last edited by jackx; January 17, 2010 at 07:50 AM.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackx View Post
    As stated, I got nothing but that .exe from both DLs once I unpacked them. Naturally, I didn't throw that into any directory, so my NTW2 is still unchanged.
    Trying the DLs again now... but I fear that something went wrong with the uploads.

    Edit:
    This is all I get from the DLs

    very well. let me reupload.


    EDIT: try again. I replaced the link with a new one.
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; January 17, 2010 at 09:11 PM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  12. #12

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Thank you. DLing now, looking forward to giving it a try.

    Edit: Played around with it a bit, and it's great. Obviously still very much WIP, but good fun, and feels much more "right" with regard to 18th century warfare. I like the fact that bayonet charges seem more viable now (instead of simply being defeated by auto-fire most of the time, NTW2-style), and artillery is now actually threatening at mid and long range, and not just a canister spam device (though the latter is of course legitimate use, and I'd actually like it boosted by having canister range > musket range).
    Last edited by jackx; January 18, 2010 at 11:20 AM.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by jackx View Post
    Thank you. DLing now, looking forward to giving it a try.

    Edit: Played around with it a bit, and it's great. Obviously still very much WIP, but good fun, and feels much more "right" with regard to 18th century warfare. I like the fact that bayonet charges seem more viable now (instead of simply being defeated by auto-fire most of the time, NTW2-style), and artillery is now actually threatening at mid and long range, and not just a canister spam device (though the latter is of course legitimate use, and I'd actually like it boosted by having canister range > musket range).

    well, in the 18th century, roundshot was the most common ammunition. grapshot was reserved for emergency situations; its why I left the grapeshot range untouched. but I'm glad it works well.

    as to bayonet charges: I'm frankly surprised; I shrank the unit sizes to minimize bayonet charges, since records from the time indicate that bayonet charges were rarish-one french general in Europe only recorded 1 bayonet charges in the entire war. and only 9% of all casualties on the western front of the SYW were from Bayonets/melee.

    come to think of it, must be the muskets: I increased their range and stopping power, but decreased their accuracy (rifles/light bullets are an exception-the former was increased).
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  14. #14

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Yep, it's the range - auto-fire now does not automatically lead to an attacker getting blasted at point-blank range. With fire management, line infantry still has almost 0 chance of charging successfully.
    The charge may still hit home, but the attacking unit will then rout almost immediately.
    .
    Bayonet charges were actually quite common, actual melee combat was not. What was that quote again - "Every army in Europe claims that none can stand a bayonet charge by their soldiers. They are all right"?
    One side should break before contact is ever made, as was usually the case.

    Of course, this is hard, if not impossible to replicate with RTW. You're closer to it than NTW though, the dense formations seem to lead to the result that when a charge hits home with force it'll break the enemy almost instantly, resulting in fairly low melee casualties. Guards/high-morale units still go at it until there's almost noone left standing, though, but that's not a big deal.


    The whole situation favours the defender more than it should (at least in a pure inf-v-inf situation), but that means one can play without a ridiculous (i.e. historically accurate) number of guns spamming canister at the enemy.

    Regarding that - it was a key ingredient to the carnage of most SYW battles, couldn't have had a bloodbath like Torgau without it tbh. Massive use of artillery is actually the key feature of the latter part of the war IMHO, and lead to the abandoning of agressive assault tactics because even when they were still successful, the sheer amount of casualties incurred that way wasn't worth it. More often than not concentrated artillery fire could quite literallly stop them dead, though - which of course lead to more maneuver warfare and less set-piece battles.


    Of course, if your main focus is the North American campaigns, then canister spam is indeed only of minor importance. Other than contributing to the shredding of the Beauport assault to some extent, I don't think close-range artillery fire was much of a factor.

    Effective range for canister from 12pdrs is given as high as 200-250 yards... which is of course too high for the game, the more so as canister damage doesn't really scale with range as far as I can tell, but two lines of infantry shooting it out while the (heavy) guns deployed at the front only contribute a couple of kills via roundshot doesn't feel right, either.

    Howitzers are easily the most effective guns at the moment, maybe a bit too effective compared to the others. Denser formations give it increased killing power, and indirect fire makes them very easy to use.
    (I'd tune down the shell performance to where it's more annoying than killing, and give them/boost their canister performance, so that they can shred an attack, but will need LOS to do so.)

    This turned into kind of a rant, hopefully it also contains a bit of valuable feedback, and I'd also like to use the opportunity to state once again that I'm already enjoying this immensely, as for some reason it just feels "right", even though it'll probably be impossible to ever agree on what "right" actually is with regard to the subject matter. ;D


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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by jackx View Post
    Yep, it's the range - auto-fire now does not automatically lead to an attacker getting blasted at point-blank range. With fire management, line infantry still has almost 0 chance of charging successfully.
    The charge may still hit home, but the attacking unit will then rout almost immediately.
    .
    Bayonet charges were actually quite common, actual melee combat was not. What was that quote again - "Every army in Europe claims that none can stand a bayonet charge by their soldiers. They are all right"?
    One side should break before contact is ever made, as was usually the case.

    Of course, this is hard, if not impossible to replicate with RTW. You're closer to it than NTW though, the dense formations seem to lead to the result that when a charge hits home with force it'll break the enemy almost instantly, resulting in fairly low melee casualties. Guards/high-morale units still go at it until there's almost noone left standing, though, but that's not a big deal.


    The whole situation favours the defender more than it should (at least in a pure inf-v-inf situation), but that means one can play without a ridiculous (i.e. historically accurate) number of guns spamming canister at the enemy.

    Regarding that - it was a key ingredient to the carnage of most SYW battles, couldn't have had a bloodbath like Torgau without it tbh. Massive use of artillery is actually the key feature of the latter part of the war IMHO, and lead to the abandoning of agressive assault tactics because even when they were still successful, the sheer amount of casualties incurred that way wasn't worth it. More often than not concentrated artillery fire could quite literallly stop them dead, though - which of course lead to more maneuver warfare and less set-piece battles.


    Of course, if your main focus is the North American campaigns, then canister spam is indeed only of minor importance. Other than contributing to the shredding of the Beauport assault to some extent, I don't think close-range artillery fire was much of a factor.

    Effective range for canister from 12pdrs is given as high as 200-250 yards... which is of course too high for the game, the more so as canister damage doesn't really scale with range as far as I can tell, but two lines of infantry shooting it out while the (heavy) guns deployed at the front only contribute a couple of kills via roundshot doesn't feel right, either.

    Howitzers are easily the most effective guns at the moment, maybe a bit too effective compared to the others. Denser formations give it increased killing power, and indirect fire makes them very easy to use.
    (I'd tune down the shell performance to where it's more annoying than killing, and give them/boost their canister performance, so that they can shred an attack, but will need LOS to do so.)

    This turned into kind of a rant, hopefully it also contains a bit of valuable feedback, and I'd also like to use the opportunity to state once again that I'm already enjoying this immensely, as for some reason it just feels "right", even though it'll probably be impossible to ever agree on what "right" actually is with regard to the subject matter. ;D


    I appreciate the feedback on this. I'll see what can be done with the Howitzers and other artillery. I have been putting plenty of research into the combat, and seeing that this is still essentialy a test mod (allbeit now public), I've been experimenting with the RTW engine, and how it can be use to make combat more realistic, without breaking the engine itself. maybe I'll be able to increase the cannister, while making it more realistic. perhaps you and others can help with the testing experiments?

    also, times have changed since the begining of the mod: I've increasingly moved from a purely North American focus, to a more international focus (no planning-just for and giggles). that said, yes, there is still a bias towards North America, in the form of the two factions involved: the United Kingdom and France. at this rate, 20 factions might end up being available, but none will have the variety of the aformentioned two..

    I have other plans as well, if people can help: I'd like to reinstate siege battles as a viable option, considering its importance in the war (sieges of Louisebourg, William-Henry, Minden (led to the battle of the name), Prague, etc).

    and of course, ever since (i.e a week) the skeleton code for RTW was cracked successfully, I was wanting to experiment with more effective animations. if you or anyone else knows and animator, let me know.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    well, its not yet ready, but the second batch is taking shape quite well: I have added Valliere system artillery for french use (though for some reason the wheel sink into the groung XD), and have begun on prussian and austrian artillery. I'm also reforming the artillery: there will hopefully be 3, 6, 12, & a howitzer available to the UK, prussia, austria, Russia, hannover, etc. the rest of europe will get the 4, 8, 12, and howitzer. the ottomans get an -okes based sytem, while spain and mughal will be undecided-for now. the russian 3,6, 12, and howitzer will be uniquely statted, to account for its quality (as in good quality).

    I'm also seeing about enabling the currently CTD'ing factions.

    I'm also trying to perfect the dye colors for the uniforms (I don't want exact, which is impossible-just close): I recently found a painting of french soldiers from the era, dressed in blue. it seems that the french need a re-dye, no matter how slight.

    also, for Jackx: I'm afraid I cannot upgrade cannister range with what I know. also, I've added to artillery range, from 400 to 600m. I might increase it and the musket range, as I have recently read a book about warfare from the time, that confirms, and adds to what you say.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  17. #17

    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen.jamesWolfe View Post
    well, its not yet ready, but the second batch is taking shape quite well: I have added Valliere system artillery for french use (though for some reason the wheel sink into the groung XD), and have begun on prussian and austrian artillery. I'm also reforming the artillery: there will hopefully be 3, 6, 12, & a howitzer available to the UK, prussia, austria, Russia, hannover, etc. the rest of europe will get the 4, 8, 12, and howitzer. the ottomans get an -okes based sytem, while spain and mughal will be undecided-for now. the russian 3,6, 12, and howitzer will be uniquely statted, to account for its quality (as in good quality).

    I'm also seeing about enabling the currently CTD'ing factions.

    I'm also trying to perfect the dye colors for the uniforms (I don't want exact, which is impossible-just close): I recently found a painting of french soldiers from the era, dressed in blue. it seems that the french need a re-dye, no matter how slight.

    also, for Jackx: I'm afraid I cannot upgrade cannister range with what I know. also, I've added to artillery range, from 400 to 600m. I might increase it and the musket range, as I have recently read a book about warfare from the time, that confirms, and adds to what you say.


    I salute you, Wolfe (publicly now, XD).

    Your perfectionism... is healthy (with regard to the uniforms)... Im only added they are fine as they are ... perhaps some arrangement in a button or some decorative ... but nothing more, =).

    These days I'm finishing up another job, so I have something suspended this, but I hope to return soon to see what can I do...

    I leave here some pictures (of that epoch, i think), for if this can help you:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Let me give a short report:

    this picture is of a battle ... bottom right notes ... a cloud of smoke suspended, product shots of the Musketeers ... The truth is that the cloud remained there ... many minutes. It seemed unusual:



    then... reading in the: descr_effects_firearms, i found this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ; How many particels per meter. The inverse must not be higher then the maximum range

    density 0.1
    ;emitter_falloff_dist 5 ; distance in meters to reduce emission over
    ;emitter_falloff_bias 0.5
    }

    fade_time 50.0 ???


    ...is not exaggerated?

    .. greetings, see later.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeopterix View Post
    I salute you, Wolfe (publicly now, XD).

    Your perfectionism... is healthy (with regard to the uniforms)... Im only added they are fine as they are ... perhaps some arrangement in a button or some decorative ... but nothing more, =).

    These days I'm finishing up another job, so I have something suspended this, but I hope to return soon to see what can I do...

    I leave here some pictures (of that epoch, i think), for if this can help you:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Let me give a short report:

    this picture is of a battle ... bottom right notes ... a cloud of smoke suspended, product shots of the Musketeers ... The truth is that the cloud remained there ... many minutes. It seemed unusual:



    then... reading in the: descr_effects_firearms, i found this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    ; How many particels per meter. The inverse must not be higher then the maximum range

    density 0.1
    ;emitter_falloff_dist 5 ; distance in meters to reduce emission over
    ;emitter_falloff_bias 0.5
    }

    fade_time 50.0 ???


    ...is not exaggerated?

    .. greetings, see later.


    1-thanks for the compliments. I'll see about bringing this to a more complete state.
    2-thanks for the uniforms, but no, they are not accurate to the period. the guards you give are from c.1789, not 1757. in 1757, the cut was more generous, and very bright. the tricorne was also different, with the brim stretched to the font, and lower.
    3-about the smoke: its not exaggerated: Europe is damp and cool, in comparison to where I come from. this kind of weather will actually cause the smoke to stick in the air for a longer time; in fact, if the battle could be won in a single volley, the smoke wouldn't stick that long. but you are right in one sense: the smoke effect looks well...wrong. I honestly don't know how to fix it. what I need is an initial plume of smoke, stretching as much as 6m, followed by a mild haze in the area of the plume, that lasts a couple of minutes.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  19. #19
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    A quick early morning update:

    1- I have finally been able to improve the range of cannister. I have also changed the effect of the cannister, so that it, for the most part, people are killed without any ground explosion. it also kills people in a line, 11 at a time.
    2-artillery now has carriage colors unique to each faction; Austrians will be dark yellow, Prussia and the UK get medium blue, France, red or iron blue, etc. I'm also expanding on the ballistic types, elaborating properties of artillery, and creating new, more accurate artillery pieces. thus, the french get the large French guns, while the Austrians will get new, light pieces.

    here is a prussian 6-pdr, in medium blue (needs retouching-must be lighter):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    3-as one might notice, the skins are being retextured, with more detail added, and a "wool" teture placed on all new units, as well as old. I'm also differentiating the various types of hilts and scabbards, accurate to the period.
    4-I'm gradually phasing out the N2TW officer models at the moment, in favor of more appropriate officers from the 1750's. here is the standardbearer of the La marine regiment (the UV is off atm, and it needs a slight recoloring)

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    5-The dutch have been successfully redone; there aren't as many units as there used to be, but that is due to a lack of information. if anyone has any information on the Dutch army in the 1750's, PM the info please.
    6-if anyone knows how to reenable sieges, PM me.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


  20. #20
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    Default Re: asking for permission.

    2nd wip is now "ready"...ish:

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=28OTAGZV

    same installation as before: rename whatever napoleonic total war you have, then install this, and all that other stuff.

    I'm having trouble organizing the darn faction symbols in the custom battle menu, or enabling factions in that game that have kept CTD'ing when selected for custom battle.

    I'm considering starting from scratch, with a new mod-folder directory; at least I might be able to get a campaign in then. (well, we, if a team can be assembled.)

    as to what I added to the wip:

    1-I'm starting to give accurate carriage colors for the various armies; most of the finished artillery parks (i.e France, Austria, Prussia, and Hesse-Kassel) are in medium blue, with black metal fittings. the French have red carriages with black fittings, and Austria has a dark yellow carriage with black fittings. though for some odd reason, the Austrian 6-pd gun keeps getting assigned by the game to Prussia, as well as Austria... must be a typo somewhere.
    2-many of the factions that can be played already have complete (or near so), officer corps for the infantry. 5 already have generals as well, but no ADC's (prussia, UK, Austria, Russia, and the Ottoman empire), and one or two have recycled Prussian general models.
    3-virtually all units have been re-textured to some extant, and there is one (poorly) done native american unit, available to both France and the UK.

    EDIT: if I am able to start a new mod, it will not mean the abandonment of the mini mod currently under production. just FYI.
    Last edited by Gen.jamesWolfe; June 20, 2010 at 01:42 AM.
    I haz a culler!! (really, who gives a darn? its totally meaningless, and it doesn't really accurately reflect who I am)


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