Russian view on Russians.

**Dartagnan** · January 18, 2009, 12:46 PM

I read in here somewhere a while ago that the Russians had voted Stalin as their favourite Russian, to be honest, this took me by surprise. I had always assumed that following Stalin's death, and the the de-Stalinisation that followed, communist Russia was trying to drift away from the totalitarian side of communism and into a more stable nation.

I imagined that in Russia, you'd treat Stalin in the same way to how the Germans treat Hitler now; study the characters in depth and admire their tactics, but at the same time, give frequent reminders as to how they were not very nice people. I understand he and Lenin did a lot for Russia, separating Church from State, improving education, mass industrialisation, but this came at a huge cost, an approximate 15 million needlessly starved to death and like any dictator, all political opponents or trouble makers were killed. Considering the great number of Russian writers, entrepreneurs, artists and scientists I didn't think that Stalin would be anywhere near the top of the list.

So, I'm wondering to those who are living in former communist states (Estonia/Lithunia/East Germany), how do you feel about Stalin and what is the general opinion where you live?
To Russians, what are your opinions of:
The final generations of the Romanovs
Trotsky and Lenin?

Sorry if I upset any Stalin fans.

**Alkarin** · January 18, 2009, 12:52 PM

i believe they only like stalin the most because of pure propaganda and the fact that he brought russians together against a common cause...kill nazis!

also the germans are an extreme case with hitler. since they made it illegal to say such words like nazi blood war etc publicly just because they can be related to hitler

**CrimsonGuard** · January 18, 2009, 01:50 PM

Alexander Nevsky became "Name of Russia", a project stupid and pointless in my opinion.

As for Stalin: well he is popular, especially after chaotic 90's. And most of the "casual" people don't care about the bad things that he did and prefer to focus on the "good" things. (Good points by Alkarin too).

As for Romanovs, well nothing special. And what do you mean "final"? There are still Romanovs living in Europe, some even claiming the Russian throne.

Lenin is a traitor that should've been crimated and buried somewhere on the moon the second SU fell in my opinion.

**Dartagnan** · January 18, 2009, 01:59 PM

By the final Romanovs, I refer to Nicholas II, Alexandra and their children.

Whilst they were alive, they were a lot of strong feelings against them, which eventually led to their imprisonment and murder once the revolution came, but I understand that since the fall of communism their bones had been recovered from where ever they were dumped and given a proper burial, does this mean that the Russian people had a change in heart?

**Holger Danske** · January 18, 2009, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dartagnan

Sorry if I upset any Stalin fans.

Don't be, they are hardly any different from Neo-Nazis...

**LegendI** · January 18, 2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Dartagnan

I
So, I'm wondering to those who are living in former communist states (Estonia/Lithunia/East Germany), how do you feel about Stalin and what is the general opinion where you live?
To Russians, what are your opinions of:
The final generations of the Romanovs
Trotsky and Lenin?

Sorry if I upset any Stalin fans.

Stalin was a smart retard who knew how to control and use the masses. Nonetheless an ass hole. I will never respect him for the numerous mistakes and crimes he did that killed millions.

The Romanovs were retarded too. The last Czars especially. For God's sakes, a retard knew it was time to reform the army and society. But he just carried on without realising that the people would want any alternative to his repressive and idiotic actions.

Lenin and Trotsky were smart and knew how they that the socialism they promised would appeal greatly to the masses of impoverished peasants. But in the long run, they screwed Russia over. What Russia needed was good modest reforms and what i also needed was to stay out of WWI. If either could have promised that, the Russian Empire would be stll here today in some shape or form. A super power too. But stupidity has its downsides and Russia is paying for it in full. I call Lenin and Trotsky greedy bastards who wanted power.

The masses of people in every country are stupid. They will turn to any leader (fascist, mass murderer, communist, anyone) in times of desperation. The Russians are no exception and chances are neither are you. This is because people stop thinking when the times are good and become complacent. When things get bad, then they start thinking. The Russian people only started thinking when the Germans shot them in droves in WWI and when they realised how repressive their Czar really was.

The Russian leaders' lack of forsight cost millions of lives. That's why I like Putin because he is much more competent than the rest of the mofos Russia had in a hundred years.

**Babur** · January 18, 2009, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by LegendI

Stalin was a smart retard who knew how to control and use the masses. Nonetheless an ass hole. I will never respect him for the numerous mistakes and crimes he did that killed millions.

The Romanovs were retarded too. The last Czars especially. For God's sakes, a retard knew it was time to reform the army and society. But he just carried on without realising that the people would want any alternative to his repressive and idiotic actions.

Lenin and Trotsky were smart and knew how they that the socialism they promised would appeal greatly to the masses of impoverished peasants. But in the long run, they screwed Russia over. What Russia needed was good modest reforms and what i also needed was to stay out of WWI. If either could have promised that, the Russian Empire would be stll here today in some shape or form. A super power too. But stupidity has its downsides and Russia is paying for it in full. I call Lenin and Trotsky greedy bastards who wanted power.

The masses of people in every country are stupid. They will turn to any leader (fascist, mass murderer, communist, anyone) in times of desperation. The Russians are no exception and chances are neither are you. This is because people stop thinking when the times are good and become complacent. When things get bad, then they start thinking. The Russian people only started thinking when the Germans shot them in droves in WWI and when they realised how repressive their Czar really was.

The Russian leaders' lack of forsight cost millions of lives. That's why I like Putin because he is much more competent than the rest of the mofos Russia had in a hundred years.

**Vince Noir** · January 18, 2009, 03:02 PM

http://listverse.com/history/top-10-most-evil-men/

**Pious Agnost** · January 19, 2009, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

http://listverse.com/history/top-10-most-evil-men/

I don't really agree with that list, especially Hirohito, he was fully AGAINST the war, but he didn't have the power to stop it until the Americans nuked Japan. Besides, there is no way Atilla the Hun is the 10th most evil person in history

**Stevcho the Serb** · January 18, 2009, 03:19 PM

LegendI's post explains it all. x2

Originally Posted by Vince Noir

http://listverse.com/history/top-10-most-evil-men/

I like the bonus

**Heathen Hammer** · January 18, 2009, 03:33 PM

Many Russians feel for Stalin because he helped in defeating Nazis and managed to turn Russia into a superpower again. However he is still considered "bad guy" by Russian media which blames all the crap on "evil communism" while most of bad stuff in modern Russia happened due to Yeltsin and his idiotic reforms.
Also Nicholas II, who actually destroyed the Russian Empire with his lack of competence got recently canonized by Orthodox Church.
Yes, our recent history was very bloody, but it is no reason to hate it. French don't hate their revolution and why should we hate ours?

**MiniMeAgain** · January 18, 2009, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Volh Vseslavich

Many Russians feel for Stalin because he helped in defeating Nazis.

Nope, he didn't. My two granddads did, one of them was a footsoldier grunt and the second was marine aviation officer/designer/constructor. And some other fellas. Common opinion that the stinkin criminal mentioned by Dartagnan has something to do with it, is actually erroneous, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Dartagnan

To Russians, what are your opinions of: The final generations of the Romanovs

damn losers, they should have had flush the country with Reds red blood instead of

in resignment. hope they burn in hell for millenia for that.

in traitors (Somebody please help me, I'm trying to swear here instead of posting stupid smilies!)

Trotsky and Lenin?

even worse than Stalin

**CarbEast** · January 19, 2009, 05:13 AM

Originally Posted by MiniMeAgain

Nope, he didn't. My two granddads did, one of them was a footsoldier grunt and the second was marine aviation officer/designer/constructor. And some other fellas. Common opinion that the stinkin criminal mentioned by Dartagnan has something to do with it, is actually erroneous, I'm afraid.

Actually he has something to do with it. The main reason why USSR could ever stand a chance against Nazis was rapid industrialization and Stalin's "pyatiletki". Without those your granddads (just as mine) would have to use spiked clubs against German tanks. The other thing that helped USSR to win was Stalin's constant aim to modernize army, both in structure and education. The day of Stalin’s death marked the beginning of stagnation in USSR's and Russian army which is still lasts to this very day (some attempts were made recently to shift things though).

Originally Posted by Alkarin

trotsky and lenin are more evil than stalin? LOL?

These guys were really crazy. Their aim was to ignite "world revolution" and they didn't really care if they had to sacrifice every Russian to achieve this goal. Stalin wasn't exactly the nice guy either, but at least he was sane.

**Visna** · January 19, 2009, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by CarbEast

These guys were really crazy. Their aim was to ignite "world revolution" and they didn't really care if they had to sacrifice every Russian to achieve this goal. Stalin wasn't exactly the nice guy either, but at least he was sane.

Didn't Lenin give up on the whole idea of world revolution shortly before his death, limiting his ambitions to a Soviet revolution? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Trotsky, perhaps? :hmmm:

Stalin? Sane?

That would depend on what you call insane of course. Unless you consider suffering from an inferiority complex, serious problems with temper control, extreme paranoia, being directly responsible for the deaths millions, concepts like the Great Purges etc etc "sane", I honestly can't see how you can call Stalin sane by any definition of the word.

**Babur** · January 19, 2009, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Elder

Didn't Lenin give up on the whole idea of world revolution shortly before his death, limiting his ambitions to a Soviet revolution? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Trotsky, perhaps? :hmmm:

Stalin? Sane?

That would depend on what you call insane of course. Unless you consider suffering from an inferiority complex, serious problems with temper control, extreme paranoia, being directly responsible for the deaths millions, concepts like the Great Purges etc etc "sane", I honestly can't see how you can call Stalin sane by any definition of the word.

Yeah and don't forget that as Lenin was nearing his end,he warned about Stalin.

I find it odd that the Russians on TWC ignore this,I guess they're never taught this at school? :hmmm:

**CarbEast** · January 19, 2009, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Elder

Didn't Lenin give up on the whole idea of world revolution shortly before his death, limiting his ambitions to a Soviet revolution? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Trotsky, perhaps? :hmmm:

Neither really did. The guy who stopped this nonsense was Stalin.

Originally Posted by Dark Elder

Stalin? Sane?

That would depend on what you call insane of course. Unless you consider suffering from an inferiority complex, serious problems with temper control, extreme paranoia, being directly responsible for the deaths millions, concepts like the Great Purges etc etc "sane", I honestly can't see how you can call Stalin sane by any definition of the word.

Inferiority complex
I bet you suffering certain degree of inferiority complex too, just as I'm and most of people alive (others suffer megalomania

) I don't see a big problem here.

serious problems with temper control
You made it up. If anything, Stalin had incredible self control over his temper, literally *never* even raising his voice.

extreme paranoia
Sure. The problem that other higher-ups who didn't have it died, because they really thought nothing is threatening their lives and were wrong. Certain degree of paranoia was necessity for soviet politician of that time.

being directly responsible for the deaths millions
Don't be naive, numerous of politics of XX century were responsible for millions of deaths and they didn't lost their sleep over it. 4 millions civilians were killed in Vietnam. Were Lyndon Johnson crazy? Nixon?

concepts like the Great Purges
Concept of Great Purges, while extremely cynical and inhumane, was at the same time extremely pragmatic and logical - something you don't expect from insane man.

**Holger Danske** · January 18, 2009, 03:47 PM

So you have no problem in 'praising' a man who was responsible for at least 20 million deaths, most Russian?..
Furthermore he didn't win the war for Russia, the Generals did! At least those who most by chance was shot under his orders.

**Nikitn** · January 19, 2009, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Holger Danske

So you have no problem in 'praising' a man who was responsible for at least 20 million deaths, most Russian?..
Furthermore he didn't win the war for Russia, the Generals did! At least those who most by chance was shot under his orders.

1. It was at least 6 million, genius. Stop using BS sources (like that Honolulu source which stated Stalin killed 65 million people).
2. People don't love Stalin. Where do you get such BS? He is just credited for his own accomplishments..
3. It is debatable if Stalin was important for the victory in WW2. Without his rapid industrialization though, USSR would never have won, and would never become a modern state. That's for sure.

But some people say others could have industrialized Russia, etc. Basically, the make "what if's". I don't believe in "what if's", thus in my eyes he was responsible for the victory.

PS. Don't forget his ability to rally the Soviet people, a brilliant work of propaganda.

**Heathen Hammer** · January 19, 2009, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Holger Danske

So you have no problem in 'praising' a man who was responsible for at least 20 million deaths, most Russian?..
Furthermore he didn't win the war for Russia, the Generals did! At least those who most by chance was shot under his orders.

Number of casualties is unknown so throwing numbers like 20 millions here is pretty pointless. Also it is important to know which percentage of those who went to jail or were executed were political criminals? Another factor is how many of them were nazi collabortianists? And so on.