Difference between "Main Campaign" and "Historical Campaign".

[Socy]

Hi all!

First post. Great mod by the way! Love it for its roleplaying opportunities and its depth. The best mod out there, by far. (For M2:TW).

However, as the topic-title says, what is the difference between the "Main Campaign" and the "Historical Campaign"? I have tried both and from the looks of it, the "Main Campaign" is harder, but which one is more historically accurate (I am no expert on medieval history, but England owning western, of todays, France? In the "Historical Campaign" that is) and which one is the "official" campaign, that is. The campaign that is intended to be used when playing Deus Lo Vult!

Looking forward to answer(s)!

Cheers, Socy.

[Dauntless Commandant]

The Historical Campaign = all factions start off with the territories they would of had in 1180 a.d (based on what the game engine allows). - so it is as it is entitled - and settlements are accurate to how they would of been, i.e - Some castles and cities dotted about instead of just wooden settlements.

And yes, England did own most of Western France at the time since they inherited it from a marriage, (forgot which) - however they lost these lands in the 13th Century and were finally pushed out of the mainland by France.

Here we go:

Worse was to follow, with the succession in 1154 to the disputed English throne of Henry II, already count of Anjou and duke of Normandy before his marriage (1152) to France's newly-divorced ex-queen Eleanor of Aquitaine brought him control also of much of south-west France. A century of intermittent warfare brought Normandy once more under French control in 1204 and English control of French territory ended with the French victory at Bouvines in 1214.

Actually the 13th Century (1200 a.d -1300 a.d) was a very poor time for England since they were thrown out of France, Ireland and were constantly pounded by Scotland (William Wallace), and loosing York at one point - all around the same time

[Aeon`]

But the problem about that time is that there were not only huge kingdoms with great kings, but a lot of small and more or less independent counties and whatever. So "historical" is relative, because it is impossible to make it really accurate in this game.

[Socy]

Thank you for the fast replies!

I see. Well, you learn something new everyday !

I first thought that the "Main Campaign" was the more historical since it had alot of rebel settlements that I thought represented "Factions", if you get my point. But it is also very hard with all the rebels infesting your lands in the beginning.

So, which campaign do you guys prefer? I've, so far, only played the "Main Campaign" and I like it beacuse it requires you to expand slowly with all the rebels, and all the "Rebel Factions" are, in my opinion, interesting for roleplay. But give me some arguments or some such for the "Historical Campaign". Sure, it seems to be more "Historical", but is there more to it?

[wudang_clown]

The Historical Campaign = all factions start off with the territories they would of had in 1180 a.d (based on what the game engine allows)

Well, um, Królestwo Polskie wouldn't had any territories at all as a state, becuse in 1180 it was in the middle of "fragmentation period". No king, just princeps who fought that way or another with other nobles for domination. No one but Władysław Elbow-High used some ulitmatedefrag 1320 and unified some lands under his rule...

Furthermore, in faction description there is suggestion that Kazimierz I was a king, which is not correct, becuse he wasn't crowned; although he was "supreme" ruler who managed to unify some lands of former kingdom, he wasn't king.

What is more, places names are not correct: if I decide to play as KP, I wish I could own Kraków not Cracow, Przemyśl not Peremyshl, Halicz not Halych. If you manage to name HRE city as Breslau, why don't you name Halicz as Halicz (Haleetch not Halih) That issue does not concern KP only, but also other factions.

What is more 2: Breslau is located on the river Odra (Oder) not south of it; and Marienburg is not located on Wisła river (Vistula) but futher north and slighlty east of it, much closer to Konigsberg; current position of capital of Teutonic Order is located on the place of nowadays (and contemporary) Toruń - or Thorn in German.

What is more 3: Marienburg Castle was located in 1274, so in 1180 it did not exists, which is obvious; AND Konigsberg was founded in 1255. I know that this issue is linked with impossibility of making TO an emergent faction, so it has to be, as it is, but please, no travelling cities... But there were also few important castles and cities owned by the TO before mentioned ones were build, like Toruń (Thorn), Chełmno (Kulm), Dobrzyń (Dobrin), etc.

What is more 4: In 1180 neither Przemyśl nor Halicz was under "polish" rule...

So let me say that The Historical Campaign map is not quite correct, at least in case of KP, which is on the contrary what repman said in one of the threads.

PS. I love this mod, really, and I appreciate your work, DLV team

[Dauntless Commandant]

Well yes, it is as historical as the game engine allows. - For example we can't include all 8 of the Irish 'lesser factions' - similar with the Kingdom of Malta, Cyprus etc etc. Maybe if the faction limit was raised, but 30-31 is all we are allowed

[Aeon`]

On the other side playing a faction with 1 city would be boring.

I like it as it is in DLV.

[Dauntless Commandant]

I prefer Historical accuracy every time, even if it means the game is 100x harder - it just adds to the enjoyment!

In my opinion with the Historical Campaign, I think it adds to the depth of you getting 'involved' in the campaign, since it's more believable - also the game pace is much more fun, since there isn't a period where everyone must destroy rebels to start getting somewhere. Since the main way to expand is by attacking other nations, it makes it more challenging and requires you to think before doing.

I hope you stay in the forums with us also Socy, we need more posters

[Socy]

Hehe, count on it, Dauntless!

I am hooked to this mod big time.

I am a former Europa Barbarorum player (Great mod for RTW. Historical accuracy aswell as heavy in the RP-department. Focuses on antiquity).

And I have to say, this mod is almost like an equivalent to Europa Barbarorum for M2TW, though set during the medieval times, which is great!

[Dauntless Commandant]

I used to play EB also, - though I found LotR:TW and got hooked on it - Can't wait for EB2 to be released though, - Romans on the M2:TW engine are going to look incredible!!

[Socy]

Hehe indeed. I am, aswell, looking forward to EB2. Though I personally prefer the Hellenic Sucessor Kingdoms and the Pahlava. But lets not get off-topic

[Kjertesvein]

Kingdome of Jerusalem 1180 (DLV_Mini-mod) only works with Historical campaign. I also urge you to read the last page of the strategy guide. You get a little lesson over there. Check my Sig.

Cheers, and have fun

[nutranurse]

The one reason I choose historical campaign over the main every time are the super powers.

England, HRE, Egypt, Moors... It's the guys like these which make me feel as if I- the player- am not the only person doing well. It is hard to take these factions on in the historical campaign and it really is an achievement to take even half their cities (with my play-style at lest) without having your rear handed to you! Not to mention it is always nice to buddy up with a superpower or watch them slug at one another.

In one of my campaigns (I was Egypt) England and the HRE managed to destroy France and then they began to war with one another for it! Was interesting to see Paris change hands multiple times

[Sorkenlol]

I like the main campaign, atleast then scotland has some kind of chance against england as both have only one or two settlements.

[Hansa]

Following the above poster. I have only played as France so far, but a minor correction. Metz was not French but under the HRE in 1180, didn't become French until the 1230's.


See for instance.
Hallam, Elizabeth. M. 1980. Capetian France 987-1328. London. p 210

Haverkamp, Alfred. 1988. Medieval Germany, 1056-1273.Oxford.p 190, 212

[repman]

I will not change any settlements because it is too much work. Make a minimod

repman