Will some units have both spear and sword?

**Juli** · January 17, 2009, 07:15 PM

Since the Medieval 2 engine makes AI capable of swapping beetwen primary and secondary weapon, you wont get the unfair advantage like in RTW (for example, only the human could use the cataphract AP secondary weapon, the AI didnt), will units like most cavalry and hoplites/elite infantry get two weapons??

Also how does weapon swapping ACTUALLY work?? Is it possible for you to make the hoplites, for example, use spears for a while and then go swords?? Or, even better, using spear against cavalry, sword against infantry??

**cux47** · January 17, 2009, 10:06 PM

In EB1 the Galatian heavy spearman use both spear and swords.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · January 17, 2009, 11:49 PM

The reason that EB1 did not use two weapons for many units was not because the AI didn't know how to use it but rather because the units would charge with their alt weapons and not their main. I don't know if this bug has been changed in the M2TW engine.

**delra** · January 18, 2009, 03:59 AM

Hoplites would be twice as useful if they had their short swords (Xiphos?) in addition to spears.

And Greek Cities (or whatever they are called in EB2) would also be far more interesting if you weren't doomed to use stacks of spearmen all the time but also had some swords as an option.

I hope it works in M2TW.

**Juli** · January 18, 2009, 02:23 PM

Well, it works with cavalry (you know, they charge with lance/spear, and then fight with sword/axe/mace), but the question is if it works with non-spearwall infantry.

And if they (hoplites) used the spears for charge and then only swords, it would be unrealistic, cause hoplites used spear for a while...

Perhaps giving them the power_charge attribute may "force" the hoplites to use the spears a bit longer...

On a side note, will hoplites have "spear" attribute (which makes them pwn cavalry, but suck vs infantry)?? Cause I think they way hoplites wield the spears (overhand) was not good for halting a cavalry charge...

**Ares1000** · January 18, 2009, 05:52 PM

Well, it works with cavalry (you know, they charge with lance/spear, and then fight with sword/axe/mace), but the question is if it works with non-spearwall infantry.

And if they (hoplites) used the spears for charge and then only swords, it would be unrealistic, cause hoplites used spear for a while...

Perhaps giving them the power_charge attribute may "force" the hoplites to use the spears a bit longer...

On a side note, will hoplites have "spear" attribute (which makes them pwn cavalry, but suck vs infantry)?? Cause I think they way hoplites wield the spears (overhand) was not good for halting a cavalry charge...

The first Rank probabaly stuck his spear in the ground holding it underhand and under between the gaps of the shieldwall against a cavalry charge, and the rest holding it overhand pressing their weight on the front rank should the cavalry collide. By the way a horse isent a stupid animal so it wouldnt run and impale itself on long pointy spears sticking out of a group of men, unless it is blindfolded, wich they have done to horses, and may have done it that time aswell, but horses would probably try to stop before hitting the spears, tho the number of horses behind and around might make the first rank to collide.

In the documentary of the last stand of the 300 they suggest that the spartan first rank fought underhand with their short spears but that was at Thermopylae and it was only in a defensive stance, if they really did this it couldent have been used against hoplite phalanxes, cause when you collide with a enemy phalanx there is no room to stabb with your spear, atleast not at the first rank, u would have to try and hit the leggs of the second or third rank, a sword would be much better for underhand stabbing, sources do tell that they did go for the leggs and groin, but that was probably at the charge, angleing your spear downwards holding it overhand and strike for the thigh or groin if it was exposed, the first rank would probably do this while the second and third went for the head and upper body, many hoplites raised their shields to avoid being hit in the face at the charge atleast, this would expose their thighs and groin, we are told that the spartans didnt raise their shield, they we're to professional.

**mikil100** · January 19, 2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Juli

Well, it works with cavalry (you know, they charge with lance/spear, and then fight with sword/axe/mace), but the question is if it works with non-spearwall infantry.

And if they (hoplites) used the spears for charge and then only swords, it would be unrealistic, cause hoplites used spear for a while...

Perhaps giving them the power_charge attribute may "force" the hoplites to use the spears a bit longer...

On a side note, will hoplites have "spear" attribute (which makes them pwn cavalry, but suck vs infantry)?? Cause I think they way hoplites wield the spears (overhand) was not good for halting a cavalry charge...

I hope EB implements the spear attribute sense they are using M2TW's engine, cavalry (to me) seems so much more effective.. I'd hate to see charging cavalry plow through the front of a phalanx.

**impspy** · February 19, 2009, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by delra

Hoplites would be twice as useful if they had their short swords (Xiphos?) in addition to spears.

And Greek Cities (or whatever they are called in EB2) would also be far more interesting if you weren't doomed to use stacks of spearmen all the time but also had some swords as an option.

I hope it works in M2TW.

yeah that always bugged me too: the swordless hoplites

**Mattzo12** · February 20, 2009, 01:12 PM

Yeah, like the Roman Legionaries.

Carry 1 or 2 javelins, after they have been thrown they use swords. That would be cool.

**Lance** · February 21, 2009, 07:11 AM

It would be great, if you could order spear units to use their swords with the Alt + Click command. Just like you can send your elite skirmishers into melee...
"Come on guys! We are assaulting a city here, leave those long pikes and draw those short swords!"

regards

Lance

**Erlend** · February 13, 2009, 05:54 AM

The varangian guard-dudes in broken crescent can change weapons, although between 1h axe and 2h axe...You just hold in Alt when you attack-click.So why shouldn't it be possible to do the same with phalanx-men?

**Tankai** · February 14, 2009, 10:04 AM

Hoplites would use their sword usualy if their formation was compromised, the ones who held their ground should keep the spear(similiar to what we see in the pike phalanx). Can this be modded in ?

**Mediolanicus** · February 16, 2009, 10:59 AM

The problem with the RTW engine was that foot units without phalanx formation would charge using their 1st melee weapon and then immediately switch to their second melee weapons.

Hoplites with sword as second weapon would constantly be fighting with their swords...

I don't know if this problem was fixed with the M2TW engine... Anyone who knows?