Curia Hostilia, Consulate of Ahenobarbus Agelastus/Crassus

[chaplain118]

Turnus smiled back. He knew Caesar wouldn't agree to what they had discussed, and it mattered not. The power of veto rested in the hands of the tribunes, both of whom support the measure. Caesar can rabble all he want, but there was nothing he could do to oppose the bill.

Caesar, you would let our economy fall into disrepair, all at the facade of protecting the Plebs. Let me put it in a way that you can understand:

We raise taxes now so that we may have money to improve our infrastructures and levy new legions. Both measures will increase security for the people as well as raise their living standards. You oppose those.

We have limited gold now to do those things, soon our coffers will be empty for quite a while. Higher taxes allows us to regain our financial soundness much quicker. And then, we may start to improve the lives of the... ah, Plebs. You oppose those.

Truly, Caesar, you are the people's man.

Turnus continued smiling.

[Ozy]

We raise taxes for THEIR security!

yelled Herrenius as soon as Ceasar stopped.

I support this motion not because I want to save my money, which I wont; not because I want to win this war to keep my posetions, I swear to everything that is sacred that I would give them all away if that alone would save our people! I support this because, just like you said, WE have an ideal to protect! An ideal that lives as long as ROME lives! It is not only the plebians who will suffer for this, everyone of us will. As many of you I have bled for Rome, and I would bleed again for her and for every son and daughter our beloved city has!

Do you think I want this?! Do you think I want to see our men leave their homes to die, do you think I want them to lose their money?! We do it because if we don't then there will not be anyone to protect, and when that happens, our ideal will die!

[RVFVS]

"Oh come now Herrenius! I know you won't be running out of money any time soon! As will any of us! However I do respect your opinion herrenius for it shows that you do put yourself above that of other Senators."

[Snowball]

Sacrifices must be made by all of us! There is no man, Plebe or Patrician who does not understand this! We are all Romans with the values and ideals that come with it, and if you are not prepared to give your life, or your money for Rome in this time...we must all bleed, in one way or another.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Falco stands up and turns to Caesar.

"Julius, you insult me. Have I not just announced that I will voluntarily donate a far greater share of my property and income than demanded of me to the cause of this Great Republic? I am a patrician of ancient stock, but as I am still young my possessions are quite few and as such will not make a dent on these debts by themselves.

I am a patrician, as are you. I need not pay this extra amount, and neither do you. I care about the Republic, as I am sure you do too. Yet while you oppose this bill because of the poor plebes being oppressed without actually giving an alternative, I actually strive to relieve their predicament in my own small way, but I cannot do it alone.

I care about this Republic and if I could survive without any possessions I would gladly give all I own to the treasury, but alas, it would also take away my own small source of income and I would have to starve. But at least I would be doing my part for this Republic, even more so than I am now!"

[Valerius Tiberius]

Caesar!
By all means I thought you were a wise Senator, I understand what you say, but do not agree with it!

Ofcourse Rome is an ideal, ofcourse or Plebs must eat, must survive.

But what will YOU tell them, when an enemy will stand before them with a sword in his hand, his city sacked, his wife raped, his children murdered!

It is far better for our citizens to have honger these few years, than to see their city get sacked by foreign invaders, their family butcherd, as themselves!

I, just as Falco said, would gladly give my money.
I lived at the Gallic front for years, and I did not sleep in a bed of gold!
But I slept next to our soldiers, fought against the commen enemy!
So I would be glad with merely a piece of clothing to cover my body, and food to survive, I am willing to do this!

So let us Plebians see, that money is necessary to built up an army, an army that can protect them and ensure their lives!

My dear Caesar, let us unite, let whole the Senate unite, against this commen enemy, who threatens to destroy our Republic!

[RVFVS]

Caesar nods in reognition.

"I see I have the house against me! I see. However there is a dividing line here. Those who do this for the good of the Republic and it's people. And those who do it for themselves. I will say nothing more suffice to say that regardless of the outcome of this bill, I, Tiberius Iulius Caesar will donate HALF of my fortune to the people of Rome."

Caesar sits to silence.

[Valerius Tiberius]

Have any reports been received lately from the Consuls at the front?
I hope everyone agrees with me when I say that the war has to be over, or atleast most of the armies of Epirus broken, before the new Consuls are elected!

We simply cannot switch commanders in the midst of battle!

OOC: when are the next elections?

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

ooc: one and a half weeks, so not next weekend, but the weekend after

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Quintus raises and speaks :

I support this motion, we all have to sacrifice for our survival.

How ever i am of opinion taxes should be raised by personal incom. This will mean patricians are paying more taxes but this seems more then fair, thy have more to spend because of there personal wealth.

[Ozy]

Herrenius could not stop a small laugh after hearing Quintus's words. Only the few senators seated closest to him heard it, which made him put his hand on his face to show more composition.
"Was Quintus's proposition fair? Sure. Was it feasible? Of course not. Most of the senators would certainly never agree to such a thing. Patricians had always payed smaller taxes, and they would probably have Rome fall to the ground before that would change." he thought for himself.

[Elendil of Númenor]

The doors opened and sunlight burst through. Held in the entering senator's hands, shining like the sun itself, was some golden object, ornamented with jewels and gems. The light blinded the men in the House. As the doors closed behind Celsus, the shining was reduced to a faint glitter. Taking long paces with the object in his hands, Celsus marched to the now empty podium and turned majestically to the awed senators.

"Stone of Fortune! My most beautiful and most precious present from my journeys around the Mare Nostrum. I received it from the Pharaoh when I visited Alexandria. I saved her only daughter from a deadly illness. Thus he gave me this stone, which was known to come from India and beyond - from the end of the World, itself!

As the senators looked closer, they could see that the object in Celsus's hand was not man-made. However, it was indeed so perfectly round and the gems so brightly and deeply colourful, melted between the gold, that everyone wondered. A stone from the Mountains of the Gods, surely!

"Whatever be its story, since the Pharaoh gave it to me as the sign of his immense gratitude, my life changed. I had no more troubles in my journey, and everything seemed to go smoothly. Truly, Fortune's Stone! And now Rome is in great trouble. Rome needs the favour of Fortune.
Senators! I am not rich. Alas, I cannot sacrifice my property for Rome. However I do have something that I can give her."

He slowly walked to Turnus Rutulus Pontifex Maximus while speaking. He bowed his head in sign of respect and said,

"Greatest Pontiff of Rome. I freely and willingly offer this stone, this blessing from the Gods, which has always guided me in my life as if Fortuna herself would have been holding my hand, for the good of the Republic, and the luck of Rome and its people."

Celsus layed down the glittering object at Turnus's feet, and after bowing deeply to the Senate, he paced to an empty seat in the front row, and sat down, taking deep breaths.

[Ozy]

"And perhaps there are more actually noble men in the senate that I had imagined..." Thought Herrenius after seeing Celsus's display of generosity.
"But then, such a great display of uninterested goodness could just be a political move." He thought, as he ,and everyone else, looked impressed at the precious jewel. "His actions would probably not remain in the Curia, and would be commented by plebs everywhere: "Celsus, the man who gave his most precious treasure for Rome." A great way to gain the masses for whatever purposes he could have..."

[chaplain118]

Turnus stared at the object before him. With trembling hands, he picked up the object. Walking over to the altar of Nike that stood in the Curia, Turnus placed the object upon it

Thank you, Celsus, for an offering that has surpassed anything that we other senators can offer to the Republic.

A ray of sunshine shone through one of the windows and landed precisely upon the altar. The entire altar glowed, as if ablaze from the grace of Olympus itself. The goddess Nike shone particularly bright against the rest of the Curia. Muffled by the walls, the shriek of an eagle pierced the heavens and was heard even in the Senate hall.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Patricians had always payed smaller taxes, and they would probably have Rome fall to the ground before that would change.

Would you rather yield your property to Pyrrhus Herrenius? Is it that hard to give a bit more now that our beloved city is in it' s darkest hour? Let the gods forbid it but if our legions are not successful in defeating him you will loose a lot more then a few gould coins.

What will be more worth to your life or your property? Is it not said Pyrrhus hates rome that much that he will kill every ruling class citizen to be sure no one will be able to start a rebellion against his domination?

It would be best if patricians payed more taxes for the survival of our beloved republic.

[Ozy]

Would you rather yield your property to Pyrrhus Herrenius? Is it that hard to give a bit more now that our beloved city is in it' s darkest hour? Let the gods forbid it but if our legions are not successful in defeating him you will loose a lot more then a few gould coins.

What will be more worth to your life or your property? Is it not said Pyrrhus hates rome that much that he will kill every ruling class citizen to be sure no one will be able to start a rebellion against his domination?

It would be best if patricians payed more taxes for the survival of our beloved republic.

OOC: lol those were supposed to be my thoughts, not words I'm saying. But whatever, we used telepathy

I'm not saying that I would not pay more taxes, I would (Herrenius would, at least), but most patricians wouldn't.

[Hesus de bodemloze]

ooc : hehehe yes i am still trying to get used to all of this lol. we should make them pay up lol

[Pontifex Maximus]

Sicinius rises in the midst of the verbal brawl and waits until there is relative silence to speak.

I hope that I can speak on the behalf of the other plebeian senators here that the people will not be afraid to loose a few extra coins from their purse to ensure the greater good for every Roman. If my material wealth can save Rome from this crisis, then so be it. Who am I to refuse my Mother city what it needs to ride out this storm?

[Winter]

Lepidus stands

Hear hear! It is a Roman's duty to sacrifice so that the city may go on, and these taxes are the burden we all must bear! Keep in mind senators, we need not empty gestures or demagogic pandering, we must ensure Rome's viability during and throughout this war! The Plebieans shall understand, so long as the taxes are lowered eventually.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Hence I have included the clauses that in cases of civil disagreement the tax rate should be re-evaluated in one year's time and that a new tax law be enacted when we are out of debt.