Help Byzantine vs. Europe

**henyo10** · January 17, 2009, 02:48 AM

I'm having troubles now as Byzantium because for the 1st 100 turns i've been molesting the Muslims hands down. But when I tried facing Hungary and Italy I got a rude awakening. My infantry was inferior to theirs and I just realized now that Muslim infantry sucks. Any help on this?

**delra** · January 17, 2009, 02:51 AM

What types of units you have? What types of units they have?

**henyo10** · January 17, 2009, 03:28 AM

Having trouble with their DFK, I use dismounted byzantine lancers.

**delra** · January 17, 2009, 03:32 AM

DFKs are best smashed with a direct heavy cavalry charge (or two if you rush it). Preferably from both flanks or even better, from front and behind. Can train it in custom battle.

You can also use some AP infantry like Pronoia or Varangian guard but, unless you can encircle them, it will cost you many infantrymen to bring down a DFK unit.

Or just mix it. Pin them down with Pronoia/Varangian/whatever and then hit from behind with your heaviest cavalry. That should teach them.

**henyo10** · January 17, 2009, 04:06 AM

Field battles are no problem, sieges are the nightmare.

**delra** · January 17, 2009, 04:14 AM

From my own experience with poor early Byzantine infantry: Sieges are a nightmare until you start using Varangian guard...

Try that.

**Aenima** · January 17, 2009, 06:12 AM

uber noob here, but whats a DFK?

also, im not sure if pronoia are better than dismounted lancers since they cant form a shield wall, makes me unsure if they can actually take as much of a hit as the lancers, am i right? cheers

**ShockBlast** · January 17, 2009, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Aenima

uber noob here, but whats a DFK?

It means Dismounted Feudal Knights.

also, im not sure if pronoia are better than dismounted lancers since they cant form a shield wall, makes me unsure if they can actually take as much of a hit as the lancers, am i right? cheers

Pronoia have AP(armour piercing) weapons so they are better against well armoured units.

**Musthavename** · January 17, 2009, 07:56 AM

I'd use a mix of your AP units and a flanking cavalry charge. Just make sure to get your cavalry out of there afterwards, as they'll lose in a direct fight.

**Vince Noir** · January 17, 2009, 09:03 AM

make use of light calvary and horse archers using hit and run tactics. western factions wont be able to handle the speed. if you meet hungarian light cavalry, however, a unit of archers will decimate them in a couple vollys.

and you really shoudlnt me molesting muslims..

**Lysimachus** · January 17, 2009, 09:25 AM

Use Dismounted Latinkon damn you!

**delra** · January 17, 2009, 09:28 AM

Sending heavy swords against heavy swords is very counter-productive. Only a lot of *DING* and *BANG* sounds can come of it. ;-)

Bottom line: You have to hit them from behind with AP or cavalry to produce a satisfactory result...

**Vince Noir** · January 17, 2009, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by delra

Bottom line: You have to hit them from behind with AP or cavalry to produce a satisfactory result...

Exactly. Pin their infantry down and then use the superior speed of your cavalry to sweep round behind them and charge. You'll get decimating results when done correctly.

**delra** · January 17, 2009, 09:33 AM

Yeah. Except it's hard to do in a siege. :-)

That's why he should start using Varangians.

**mikil100** · January 17, 2009, 10:25 AM

I set the Dismounted byz lancers to have 60 instead of 48 men (min settings) because when I think of Byzantium, I think of Roman Legionnaires... so I think its fair to do that, the only time they beat Lowest tier knights is when they have +2 or +3 armor... +2 only under certain circumstances, even with that you get heavy casualties. Idk If you may consider this cheating but it sure does make it more "realistic" in my eyes.

**Ghost_loy** · January 17, 2009, 10:44 AM

Well, if I were your strategic and tactical adviser I would advise you hold the town until they sally, with each turn you hold it they lose troops and if they sally you will crush them. This is what I do.
C = Cavalry
I = Infantry
A = Archers
G = General
S = Settlement that you are attacking.
_ = ingore

______________SSSSSSSSSGATESSSSSSSSS

_________CCC________________________CCCCCC
_________G_________________________CCCCCC
________________IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
________________ AAAAAAAAAAAAA
As soon as the battle starts have your general(bring some heavy or light with him) run to there right flank and your heavy cavalry run to there left flank. From there the enemy will do one of two things:
1. Attack your infanty line
2. Go for you cavalry

If they go for the general have the HC smash into there rear flank, when they turn around have the general smash into there new rear flank.
If they go for the infantry Just have your cavalry smash them to hell and back.

Wins every time!