[Faction Discussion] Xi Xia

[Augustus Lucifer]

Xi Xia

This thread can be used for team members to discuss the Xi Xia faction. Research, ideas, and imagery to use in our development of the faction are appreciated.

[Augustus Lucifer]

From the other dev forum:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Western Xia army lead by Li Yuanhao 李元昊～

Liyuanhao
李元昊

Fan Zhongyan （Song Prime Minister）Attacks Xia范仲淹请命


Great battle of Haoshui Chuan 好水川之战


Liao is Extinction
辽国灭亡


Queen Liang order to Song Aggression
梁氏侵宋

Mo Zang ，The minister get the power 没藏专权


蒙古入侵



Confucianism Buddhism 仁孝治国


Xia ，Song， Liao Situation三朝鼎立


The Battle of Ling Zhou血战灵州



Assassination of Li Yuanhao 元昊毙命

The last war of Yongle 永乐之战

6 DVDs in CCTV about Western Xia Dynasty

The establishment of national



Win the Battle of Haoshui Chuan （VS Song）



（VS Liao）


Chengtian Temple Pagoda in 1050.

Confucianism

Buddhism



Death of Xia

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4968be2d010009am.html

This website can't be copy by legal，so give the link～

Baoan Tamle in Xining city


Ningxia historical Tower



Old Castle



Mosque



Palace



Xixia Royal Mausoleum




Xixia Pagoda in Ningxia

This is tough, Xi-Xia doesn't have any surviving documents that we know of, what we do know usually comes from the Song or Yuan (Mongol) texts.

several important reference from the offical Song history text

宋史‧兵志》載：「鐵鷂子者，百里而走，千里而期，最能倏往忽來，若電擊雲飛。每於平原馳騁之處遇敵，則多用鐵鷂子以為衝冒奔突之兵。]

The History of Song. Military documents: The Iron Sparrows, They walk hundred of Miles (Li) a day, and thousands on horse backs (note that Li isn't actually as long as a mile, and from what we know of the Qing dynasty Li these sort of numbers is humanly possible) . they are most adept at sudden apperance and quick manuvers, like the lighting strike and the flying clouds. When encountering oppenents in the open, they were usually use the Iron Sparrows to form sudden charges.

宋史‧兵志》載「步跋子者，上下山坡，出入溪澗，最能逾高超遠，輕足善走」，「山谷深險之處遇敵，則多用步跋子以為擊刺掩襲之用」

The History of Song. Military Documents: The foot hikers, are able to go up and down slopes, in and out of treachous vallies, the are most capable in climbing, and is fleet of foot and capable in march. when encountering enemies in vallies and other difficult terrians. the foot hikers provide striking power and good cover

《宋史‧夏國傳》「炮手二百人，號潑喜」。

The History of Song. the tale of the Xia: Xi-Xia only has 200 artilery men, called Po Xi.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Military structure of the Xia was of 3 different armies. almost all men are required to serve one way or another, and that was a major reason that they stayed relatively competitive despite being stuck in a hard land.

The Central guard.

The Enslaver army

Milita armies.

The central guard is obviously the elite nobles on most part. the enslavers are a sort of feudal mixed professional force. as they were given the slaves they capture as assets, thus deriving the name. they were usually the heavy infantries . while the militas were... well militas, though the Xia milita were generally more experienced or useful. like the foot hikers meantioned above.

Xi Xia's Tangut tribesmans were a mix of semi-nomads and mountain tribes. they obviously also had a significant amount of city dwellers.

The Iron SparrowHawks seem to be something in between the central guard and the enslaver. as they were quiet numerous to be completely noble.

of the nobles, there was the " First sons's brigade" which was a heavy horse archer unit made up of young noblemans. and then there was the Emperor's guard , a unit of 3000 super heavy cavalries.

The Po Xi artillery were sort of interesting, while no match by far for the super artilieres employed by the Song and Jin, they were on the other hand very manuverable, usually they were camel pulled light catapults that was able to quickly manuver on the field and can keep up relatively well with the SparrowHawks.

this is a series I found on CHF, the historical accuratcy seems fairly solid here.

"During the reign of Yuan Hao (1032-48), the Xi Xia state is said to have deployed a total of 158,000 troops, of which 100,000 were stationed on the border with Song China, and another 30,000 on the Western frontier facing the Uighurs and Tibetans. There were also 8,000 imperial guards - including 3,000 heavily armoured cavalry - based on the capital, Zhongxing. Little is known of Xi Xia military equipment and organisation, but their territory contained what in Tang times had been the best horse-raising pastures in the empire, and they are known to have relied heavily on their cavalry; it was superior in both number and quality to that of the Song.

Xi Xia armies were at first simply a collection of tribal contingents, but a Chinese-style bureaucracy was eventually set up, and the country was divided into 12 military districts under two commanding generals. Tenth-century pictures from Dunhuang show dismounted warriors wearing long, Turkish-style coats of armour and wielding bows and lances, as well as infantry equipped with fire-lances and explosive bombs. A Jin source pays tribute to the Xi Xia people (Tanguts) as 'fiercely stubborn... and valiant in battle.' The country was also well provided with fortified towns, and these played a major role in their defensive strategy."

Interesting stuff that we could use to, helped me to visualise how distinct the Tanguts could be.


Here some more detailed info on what Rolling wave posted, from a CHF post

自古行师用兵，或骑或步，率因地形。兵法曰："蕃兵惟劲马奔冲，汉兵惟强弩掎角。"盖蕃长于马，汉长于弩也。今则不然。西贼有山间部落谓之"步跋子"者，上下山坡，出入溪润，最能逾高超远，轻足善走。有平夏骑兵谓之"铁鹞子"者，百里而走，千里而期，最能倏往忽来，若电击云飞。每于平原驰骋之处遇敌，则多用铁鹞子以为冲冒奔突之兵；山谷深险之处遇敌，则多用步跋子以为击刺掩袭之用。此西人步骑之长也。我诸路并塞之民，皆是弓箭手地分，平居以田猎骑射为能，缓急以追逐驰骋相尚。又沿边土兵，习于山川，惯于驰骤。关东戍卒，多是硬弩手及摽牌手，不惟扞贼劲矢，亦可使贼马惊溃。此中国步骑之利也。


Translation:

Ever since ancient times, a commander will decide whether to use cavalry or infantry based on the terrain. The Art of War says, "the barbarian troops relied on powerful horses to charge, while the han troops relied on powerful crossbows to attack from both sides". In general, the barbarians excelled on horses, while the han excelled in crossbows.

However, today's situation is different. The Western bandits (referring to Western Xia or Tanguts) had infantry traversing and fighting in between the mountains, which are known as "Bu Ba Zi 步跋子" (foot treaders). They excelled in treading up and down the hill, entering/leaving the rivers and swamps; they had no problems with height and distance of terrain. They had 'light feet' that excelled in walking. The Western Xia also had cavalry troops known as "Tie Yao Zi 铁鹞子" (Iron Sparrowhawks). They can traverse long distance, travel to and froth suddenly, just like lightning strike causing the cloud to fly away. In normal flat plain warfare, whenever the Western Xia encountered any enemy, they would use their "Iron Sparrowhawks" (i.e. their cavalry) as a form of ambush shock troops; In mountainous steep terrain, whenever the Western Xia encountered any enemy, they would use their "foot treaders" (i.e. their infantry) to counter-attack any forms of hidden raid. Therefore, the Western Xia excelled both in infantry and cavalry.

Our people living at the frontier borders were all good archers. During their daily living, they can hunt by riding and archery. During emergency, they would chase and gallop. The frontier soldiers were used to the terrain of mountains and rivers. They were also used to galloping. In Guandong region, most of the soldiers were crossbowers and ratton shield holders. They not only could withstand the raid of the Western Xia, but could also utterly cause the cavalry of the Western Xia to be shocked into collapse. Such was the advantage of infantry/cavalry in China.

QUOTE
　　至道中，王超、丁罕等讨继迁，是时马上用弩，遇贼则万弩齐发，贼不能措手足而遁。又元丰间，刘昌祚等趋灵州，贼众守隘，官军不能进。于是用牌子为先锋，贼下马临官军，其势甚盛，昌祚等乃以牌子踢跳闪烁，振以响环，贼马惊溃。若遇贼于山林险隘之处，先以牌子贼，次以劲弓强弩与神臂弓射贼先锋，则矢不虚发，而皆穿心达臆矣。或遇贼于平原广野之间，则马上用弩攒射，可以一发而尽殪。兼牌子与马上用弩，皆已试之效，不可不讲。前所谓劲马奔冲，强弩掎角，其利两得之，而贼之步跋子与铁鹞子皆不足破也。又步兵之中，必先择其魁健材力之卒，皆用斩马刀，别以一将统之，如唐李嗣业用陌刀法。遇铁鹞子冲突，或掠我阵脚，或践踏我步人，则用斩马刀以进，是取胜之一奇也。


Translation:

Up to the campaign of Wang Chao and Ding Han against Li Jiqian (ruler of Western Xia), crossbows were often used. When they encountered the bandits (referring to Western Xia troops), thousands of cross-bows were fired, which shocked the enemy and made them flee. During the era of Yuanfeng, Liu Changzuo was advancing towards Lingzhou. The enemy guarded the narrow pass, causing the Song troops to not be able to advance. In response to this, the Song troops used the shield infantry troops as vanguards. The Western Xia troops dismounted and attacked the shield infantry troops in full force. During the attack, Changzuo flipped the shield as way to sparkle/deflect the light towards the enemy cavalry. This deflection of light shocked and broke the enemy horses.

If one encountered the enemy in mountainous steep region, one should use the shield to encounter the enemy first, followed by strong crossbows and the Shenbi arbalest to defeat the enemy's vanguards. Such arrows are never shot in vain. Instead, they will all penetrate the hearts of the enemy. If one encountered enemies on a flat plain (terrain), one should massed-fire crossbows in a concentrated manner. One such firing can kill all. One cannot ignore the combination of shield and immediate firing of cross-bows, since such had been tested to be effective. When the enemy horses are charging, one can attack on both sides with strong cross-bows, allowing both sides to win.

However, when western Xia enemy attacked with both infantry and cavalry, such crossbow firing tactic would not be sufficient. One is required to choose a group of strong greatly-built soldiers, arm them with Zhanmadao (horse chopping swords) and then plant them within the Song infantry. Next, choose a general to command the infantry, just like the Tang general Li Siye using the Modao hacking technique. When one encounters the Western Xia cavalry charge, which tries to break our formation or crush our infantry, we can use Zhanmadao to advance forward. This is a key way to defeat them.

Notes about certain chinese terms

步跋子 Bu4 Ba3 Zi4 - literally "Foot Treaders", referring to the infantry of the Western Xia Army
铁鹞子 Tie3 Yao4 Zi4 - literally "Iron Sparrowhawks", referring to the cavalry of the Western Xia Army
摽牌 Biao1 Pai2 - ratton shields
扞 han4 - withstand, resist
臆 yi4 - heart
隘 yi4 - pass / narrow passage
遁 dun4 - escape
攒射 cuan2 she4 - concentrated/massed firing
殪 yi4 - dead/kill
掎角 ji3 jiao3 - attack the enemy from both sides

[RollingWave]

My rough concept of the Xi-Xia army would be something along the lines of

City:

lvl 1: Tangut spear milita (faster moving than most spear milita?)
lvl 2: Tangut archer milita (again, effective light militas)
lvl 3: Foot hiker / treader (some armor, light and very effective in woods etc.. one of the fastest infantries on the cheap, maybe have javlin)
lvl 4: Tangut horse archers

Castle

Barrack:

lvl 1: Tangut Spear milita, Foot hikers
lvl 2: Enslaver swordsman
lvl 3: Enslaver axemans
lvl 4: dismounted Imperial guards

Archery range

lvl 1: Tangut archer milita
lvl 2: Tibetian tribal archers.
lvl 3: Enslaver archers. Horse archer militas.
lvl 4: First sons brigade (horse archers)

Stable:

lvl 1: Tangut horsemans (light cav)
lvl 2: Tangut camel riders (med camels?)
lvl 3: Iron Sparrowhawks (fast heavy cavs. fastest heavy cav but armor a shade lower)
lvl 4: Emperor's guard

Seige engines:

lvl 1: whirlwind catapult
lvl 2: Po-Xi catapults (basically the whirlwind that moves faster via camel / ox carts)

If they get the traction trebuchet it should be tougher than the Song / Jin. or they don't get it at all. the Xia wasn't very succesful in terms of seiges. they usually overrun lesser defended settlements VIA direct assuault by the Enslaver army. I can't find much record on them actually pulling a long seige with large seige engines. the Po-xi artillery division was mostly used to take down light walls and occasional fire cover support.

[RollingWave]

Ok, so i found a nice book that have a more rounded reference on Xi-Xia, from military to economic to system. I'll post more from it later. but I'll focus more on the military aspect first. it doesn't really say a LOT that i didn't already note, but is more organized.

1. Xi-Xia basically used a national conscription / mobilization system, in most major campaigns almost everyone would be mobilzed, in addition to a standing army.

2. Most of it's defenses were focused on the east front against the Song/Jin and the south west against the Tibetans. (because it usually have a good relationship with Kara Khitan and the Mongolian tribes)

3. It's central guard was based on tribal nobles, it's a system where prominent noble have to send their son to the capital to serve as elite military units, since they could afford the best equipment and were usually great horse archers already, it also help keep the various tribes loyal. the term is 質子軍， a more literal translation would be "hostage sons army"

4. Because of the all out mobilization nature of Xi-Xia' military, it usually loot and enslave it's foe, and then split it up amoung it's army as compensation . hence the term enslaver army i put up earlier (the term is 擒生軍, though in practice it seems that they usually leave lesser armed / weaker units to do the catching people part. the term for it's main army seem to be 衛戍軍 which literally would be garrison army. which is ummm.. more boring than Enslavers . or rather the more correct term would be that the Enslavers are often tag on auxilleries to the garrision army. So if the garrision armies were like knights, the Enslavers would be more like sergents.


5. the iron sparrow hawks are indeed the primary decisive unit for the Xi-Xia, espically in the open terrian, it's an armored cavalry obviously as it's name suggest, though all sources also notes how it strikes really fast. so I guess it's more like a heavy medium cav without horse armor and such. but can move very fast. it's probably the best Xi-Xia unit outside of the hostage sons.

6. in general, the Xi-Xia army is nimble and manuverable, it's cavalries are not quiet as heavily armored as the heaviest Jin/Song cavs. but move faster. its infantries primary troops are often called foot treaders. which is noted for their ability to go up and down hilly terrains with great ease . and even their artillery division, the Po-Shi, is noted for being whirlwind catapults on camel driven carts (is it possible to make a artillery unit that can shoot while moving?)

7. it is noted espically in the northern Song dynasty that the Xi-Xia bows are exellent.


So yeah, I think my old list suggested above is fairly accurate, though maybe we can throw in some other stuff here and there. in general.

Low levels: Foot treader infantries (probably a javlin + spear unit, and a archer unit), militas , enslaver light cavs. enslaver camels

mid level: Enslaver heavy infantries (sword shiled + 2 hand axe I guess), Tangut horse archers. Po-Shi catapults.

high levels: Iron Sparrow hawks, Hostage sons horse archers, Shi-Jiao Pao.

So their strength : exellent light infantries, generally noted for it's great stamina and manuverability.

Weakness: locked up in the Western Yellow River corridor. limited population (relative to other major factions). poor strategic depth


Tactic wise, Xi-Xia on offense likes to pull a standard lure and ambush tactic, often faking retreat and even abandoning forts / settlements and then cut off their opponent's back end. they would do sudden charges with Iron Sparrow hawks in the open, or lure them back into the hill / wood where the foot treaders would be able to tie them down.

I'll see if I can scan some of the pics (though it's not very high quality) in the next few days

[tokimitsu]

Wow, Other guys already had reaserched!

These are better than I did about Xi Xia.

[tokimitsu]

@Wundai

I could found only 3 Wonders of Xi Xia.

Others are.... I'm researching but there's no more info I can compile in Korea here or Chinese Websites.

Are there any Chinese Researchers?
Because I cannot comprehend Chinese in Chinese Website...

[tokimitsu]

The People of Xi Xia 1 (found in Chinese Web site)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The people of Xi Xia in ancient wall drawing



King


Prince


The General or King who caught alive the General of Song


The soldiers of Xi Xia and the Excution.

[tokimitsu]

The People of Xi Xia 2 (found in Chinese Web site)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Market


Party




School





the King's Death

[tokimitsu]

The literal Characters of Xi Xia

[RollingWave]

I went to the National liberary in Taiwan today, found some nice stuff on Xi-Xia and Dali, I'll try to scan them in (along with my main ref book) in the next couple of days .

A few more interesting note I found from the stuff so far.

1. the slavery nature of Xi-Xia was partially due to the fact that it's in a not so populated area. the entire population of Xi-Xia at it's height was only around 2.5-3 million . relative to the peak of the (Northern) Song was ... um.... 130 million and even the Southern Song dynasty had 80 million population just by itself (Jin peaked at around 50 mil ). certainly the region Xi-Xia incompass is smaller in nature, but it was not like 1/30th smaller.

2. Since it had slaves, obviously it also used slave units during war. the people it captures (primarily han Chinese but also some Tibetan / Mongolian. ) they pick battle worthy guys to from what they called 撞令郎， I'm not sure about how to translate that, literally it seem to mean "Command to impact man" as in... commanded to take the enemy impact... ouch. they're usually the vanguards of a Xi-Xia assualt, litterally cannon folder units. Though later in the dynasty they also formed more well trained units of slaves, primarily serving as crossbowmans. as they copied Song arbalests and heavy crossbows to form similar units.

3. I'm still uncetain on the exact nature of the Foot treaders. all that seems certain is that they are from more remote tribes and are tough mountain tribeman. I'm guessing that they fight more like hardy skirmishers.

4. According to Xi-Xia laws, the standard army (the Garrison army and it's auxilleries, which I would like to call the enslavers) all have standard issue equipments. including horses, camels (to carry stuff mostly) , armors, bows and arrows, and some weapon, higher officers even havce things like tent. while auxilleries tend to get things like shovel and stake etc..

5. the Ratio of core garrison army to it's auxillery is usually around 1:3.

[Yelü Dashi]

Good stuff guys. Thanks for this.

I'd been compiling quite a bit on the Tanguts, which concurs with your research RW. I was waiting to get hold of this translated Russian Journal article "The Appearance, Clothes and Utensils of Tanguts' which has a nice info on their clothing and details on armour etc. I will post some extracts later.

Here's what I had so far for unit ideas:


Xi Xia Roster


Sources are pretty scant on images of Tangut warriors, but there is some good textual sources from Chinese sources. I will also be taking some ideas from the costume of the modern Qiang ethnic group, the Tanguts' supposed descendants.


Unit name: Bu Ba Zi 步跋子 (foot treaders)
Faction: Xi Xia
Region: All Xi Xia regions
Description: Medium infantry, as RW suggested 3 different types:


1x spears and wooden shields
1x bows and swords
1x javelins and swords


All effective in snow/forest. “Infantry that excelled at traversing and fighting in between the mountains.”


Concept Art:


Main Unit Design

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Something like this guy (obviously not mounted)



...combined with these modern Qiangs in traditional dress (sheepskin jackets ?):

Additional

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Head bans and turban-like headgear as depicted here:
7 and 8.







more detail of those jackets:




spears and shields from this:

Unit name: Tie Yao Zi 铁鹞子(Iron Sparrowhawks)
Faction: Xi Xia
Region: Zhongxing (capital) only ?
Description: Heavily armoured cataphracts, lances, shields, swords


Concept Art


Main Unit Design

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Guy on the right obviously (guy of the left might serve as some kind of imperial guardsmen)





Same designs:

Additional

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Horse armour will obviously not diverge from Jurchen style much.

Source:宋史：志第一百四十三 兵四(乡兵一) or "Official History of the Song Dynasty", under Chapter 143 of the Records (zhi), sub-chapter 4 of the military (bing) section...


"Bu Ba Zi 步跋子" (foot treaders)
Infantry excelled at traversing and fighting in between the mountains, . They excelled in treading up and down the hill, entering/leaving the rivers and swamps; they had no problems with height and distance of terrain. They had 'light feet' that excelled in walking.


"Tie Yao Zi 铁鹞子" (Iron Sparrowhawks)
They can traverse long distance, travel to and froth suddenly, just like lightning strike causing the cloud to fly away. In normal flat plain warfare, whenever the Western Xia encountered any enemy, they would use their "Iron Sparrowhawks" (i.e. their cavalry) as a form of ambush shock troops; In mountainous steep terrain, whenever the Western Xia encountered any enemy, they would use their "foot treaders" (i.e. their infantry) to counter-attack any forms of hidden raid. Therefore, the Western Xia excelled both in infantry and cavalry.

[Yelü Dashi]

There is evidence the Tanguts had a system to intregrate nomads into the military, nomads who arrived in thet had to swear an oath of fealty to the Tangut State and were apparently allowed in the imperial guard. Nomads were subject of the military commissioners, part of the northern and western courts whereas the Southern and Eastern courts monitored the sedantary population.


I think we should represent a significant Uighur element of the Xi Xia. Not the Gaochang Uighurs, but the Yellow Head Uighurs黃頭回紇in the Qaidam Basin. This territory was already incorporated into the Tangut state. Some Tibetan areas had also submitted, but I am not sure whether they need their own unit or we modify one of Danova's ?


From the Russian article, there is a amazing statement:

There was one Tangut weapon which was of great advantage in battle. The reference is to a small catapult mounted on the saddle of a camel and capable of hurling fist-sized stones. Apparently, the catapult could be turned about its axis. Light and manoeuvrable, it was dreadful weapon indeed

Modelling/making this work in game is entirely possible. What do you lot think ?

[RollingWave]

That is the 潑喜　Po-Shi unit I meantioned , it has a whirlwind catapult mounted, almost all whirlwind catapult types can spin from the axis. I read about the mounted on saddle part as well, which doesn't sound realisitcally possible . it would seem to make more sense if they were mounted on carts pulled by the camels no?

[Yelü Dashi]

Well, seeing as the projectile is only fist-sized it could conceivably been mounted on the camels back itself. 'Camel artillery are not unheard of in military history:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If it were just pulled by camels it would be similar to regular Whirlwind catapults pulled by oxen or w/e, and thus not be a quick and be able to fire larger projectiles.

TBH, we won't be sure without analysing the original quote, could you post it RW ?

[Yelü Dashi]

From the 'The Appearance, Clothes and Utensils of the Tanguts' – A.P. Terentyev-Katansky
based on Collections of the Leningard Affiliation ot the Institute of Oriential Studies of the USSR Academy of Sciences and State Hermitage



Most is verbatum, I've added in a few thoughts and referenced the above illustrations.


Physical appearance:

• Tall stature, dark skin and black hair called themselves 'black-headed' or 'red-faced' same names used by the tibetans
• Evidence also atrributes a protruding nose and thick beard to Tanguts, but Marco Polo asserts they were snub-nosed and beardless
• Two ethnic types that gradually merged (Ancient Qiang type + Mongolian tribes): one was broad faced with blunt, fleshy nose, sometimes turned up,often snub, rarely straight – dark/reddish complexion – similarity to Mongols. Other was more frequent – elongated face, protruding large nose – emphasied almost to a grotesque, im images from tangut officals from Dunhuan:heavy jaws, large eyes, full scarlet lips, high brows, hooked noses
• Hairstyles: moutaches, trimmed beards, whiskers fairly common, breads are very thick, short, bristly or long and broad – sometimes the end of a beard was plaited.

Clothing:

• Emperor's attire: Li Yuanhao liked to wear a red long slleved robe and a black hat when he was young, then as emperor worre a narrow white robe, felt hat adorned with a ball at the top, laces, and red ribbons.
• Imperial colours, - blue or greenish-grey for above-garment and red for uder-garment
• High stripped- tp cap
• Nobles clohes: lilac, green, blue, brown - green and greenish yellow most common
• Civil official wore a head covering brown or dark red dress and high boots
• Military officials required to wear deep red robes richly adorned and gilded silver belts wih long ends
• Helmets were gold, slver tinged with gold and coated with black varnish depending on the rank .
• Tangut officals wore narrow sleeved long robes wih half-stanfing collars
• Some of have curious helemts or caps adorned with flaps sticking forward ( see pic)
• Commoners also wore high boots
• Two types of headcloths were used – see pic 7&8 would have been either black, stripped, or red with a blue edge, the other is more like turban.
• Common people wore black, noblemen (non-civil officials) woere green
• There are no sources depicting tanguts clad in '' as Li Yuanhao had once described his people, which is why I've inferred they did in the case of the Foot treaders. The Russian identifies Zhao Bosu 's painting of what I thought was a Jurchen as Tangut:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

• Costumes of commoners appear as follows:
  - a short robe of fur or cloth and wide trouserss for nomads, and a shirt and longer trousers for farmers
  - a fur cap or headcloth twisted into a cord at the forehead
  -dark high boots or light shoes

Hairstyles:

• Tradtionally the Qiang wore their hair long, in 1033AD a decree ordered all Tangut males to wear a uniform haircut, known as the tufa – most Tanguts are depicted with a shaved head, a bob of hair just above the forehead, two locks or braids are seen extending in front of the ears (pic 10). Most with his hairstyle are clean-shaven.
• Another type is a short haircut combed on both side,or shaped into two locks in front of the ears trimmed at the ends and long locks or braids(often knotted) behind the ears (pic 11&12) this starts to look like a Mongol haircut
• Tufa haricuts for nobles and commoners might have taken different forms one rcord states: 'They cut their hair to make the top of the head flat. The king alone does not cut hair'
• Tufa itself mean 'having a head shaven' and 'plaiters' so its still uncertain what it actually was.

Armour and Arms

• Plate armour was worn by the heavy cavalrymen
• References to metal helmts: high ranking commanders wore gold helmets with 'concave clouds' and silver helmets with gold 'thread' tinge ?
• Low ranks wore helmets coated with black varnish
• Weapons: double-edged swords, battle clubs, axes and pikes all mentioned in the sources
• Tangut bows were of inferior quality 'bows are weak and arrows are short'
• Units of archers equipped with long bows appeared in the Tangut army from 1102
• Tangut swords were known for their excellent workmanship
• Plater armour (I guess they mean lamellar) came in different forms sometimes a full outfit, sometimes a short armour covering the breat and back only , two Uighur drawings show a mounted man and footman both in plate armour
• Mention of special visor – one Uighur source depicts a visor fabricated as a bell shaped mask of strips attached to a helmet, two eye slits are made in the mask (sounds a bit like the fantasy helmets in the film Mongol ?)
  Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  
• Round soft leather helmets frequently occure, adorned with a sultane (?)
• Two sword types:
  - A long broad double-edged sword tapering toward the end, the hilt has a disk shaped pommel
  -A short curving broad sword
• Battles axes and short bows are at times depicted

I have also read elsewhere that the Tanguts had units with similar names/organisational features as the Jurchen, namely the Regulars (Zhengjun) and Assistants (Alixi) ,

RW - have you heard of that before ?

[RollingWave]

yes, the original quote is from the history of Song, biography of Xi-Xia

(宋書"西夏傳")

有砲手二百人號「潑喜」，立「旋風砲」於橐駝鞍，縱石如拳。

From this, it seems to really mean that they were placed on the camel's saddle. but seeing that whirl winds would usually be a long stick as it's axis. and it needs man to pull the traction. I can't see how this could be done unless if the Camel sits down when they fire.

Whirlwind is typically the smallest of catapults for the Song too, (except when they mount them on ships) so it's projectiles is typically not large. it seems that they would only be useful in field battles flining chemical projectiles (which was how the Song used it too) and maybe against really thin / wooden walls

Also, while in history most artilleries were indeed pulled by ox / horse /camels, the whirlwind is a very light catapult where as most other artilleries were very heavy, the Song manuels basically states that it could easily be carried around easily by a small crew by attaching sticks to the pod. so if it was put on a camel they basically run at the same speed as they would if ridden by a man.



As for some of the point you meantioned.

I saw the bow is weak and short quote as well, it was a quote which an royal advisor made to argue for the formation of heavy crossbow regiments using Han slaves. also, the bowmanship appeared to have improved greatly towards the later half of the dynasty (which would be already present when this game starts) because there is a breed of ox called bamboo box (竹牛, seem to be Yak type) whose horns are exellent for bows. the late Northern Song dynasty already prized Xi-Xia bows. so maybe some lower level units should still use short bows, (like foot treaders maybe) but the main forces should have high quality bows.

as for plate armors, it was common in various styles of lamellar to add a either one or two hard plate over the chest area.

In it's core, Xi-Xia was still a very tribalistic army, the nobles fought as high end units (typically medium to heavy horse archers in the field, and heavy infantry in needed circumstances.) the commoners fought as light supporting units (militas, foot treaders, light skirmers / infantry / bowmans ) and there were slave units (heavy crossbows or cannon fodders)

[Wundai]

Wow grea stuff everyone.

@KSW, I made a buildings thread for the Xi Xia mate, I'll see if I can transfer your posts there

[RollingWave]

Xi-xia maps + mongol invasion routs + strategic manuvers in it's early wars against the Song

(beward expanded screen, also probably better to just DL those pics and expand them in your own pic viewers to see more clearly)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xi-xia artifacts, including coins / helmet / some pictures on clothes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Xi-xia text reference on military units and system, and standard issued equipments

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Yelü Dashi]

Interesting, any nuggets worth translating for us ?

[RollingWave]

I already translated most of the part about the units and army in this thread, thougggh I guess I will make a concrete post that is totally organized and complete on it.

Do you need me to translate the map?