[Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

[Augustus Lucifer]

Dai Viet

This thread can be used for team members to discuss the Dai Viet faction. Research, ideas, and imagery to use in our development of the faction are appreciated.

[Osceola]

I think the best we can do for now, asides from taking some inspiration from the Angkor Wat carvings, is to look at as many accounts and hopefully artworks from Tran Huang Dao's war against the Mongols..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tran_Hung_Dao

It's difficult stuff, most of South East Asian armies that have been documented are 16th-15th century ones.

Weapons however have almost always been the same including alot from the Indoniesian archipelago like the keris, large sized kerambit, kuku makan (I might have the name wrong, I'll get it right) etc.

[Augustus Lucifer]

There's a book that I saw on Amazon which was stated to be a reputable account of Vietnam history and not catered to the war. It's harder to find Vietnamese history due to the communist influence in the area, book burnings and the like might sound as if it's a capitalist critique and propaganda, but the truth of the matter is similar events have taken place and research into old Vietnam has been hindered as a result.

I have the "Cambridge History of Southeast Asia Vol. 1 - From early times to c. 1500" in my possession, and it looks to be somewhat promising. I opted to get this and a book on the Khmer this time around, but there's still a couple solid pre-1500 books on Vietnam out there, just need to look and read the reviews.

[STELLover]

There's a book that I saw on Amazon which was stated to be a reputable account of Vietnam history and not catered to the war. It's harder to find Vietnamese history due to the communist influence in the area, book burnings and the like might sound as if it's a capitalist critique and propaganda, but the truth of the matter is similar events have taken place and research into old Vietnam has been hindered as a result.

I have the "Cambridge History of Southeast Asia Vol. 1 - From early times to c. 1500" in my possession, and it looks to be somewhat promising. I opted to get this and a book on the Khmer this time around, but there's still a couple solid pre-1500 books on Vietnam out there, just need to look and read the reviews.

Yeah, I read the same book during one of my History projects, I want to help by like photocopying or something but my Printer/Scanner is currently broken and I have to exchange the Roller

[Osceola]

That would be really helpful dude, just take it to a Kinko's!

[Osceola]

Some polearms from Vietnam specifically..

[vietanh797]

something I had about weapon hope that help
I will post some equipment later

[vietanh797]

There's a 2D MMORPG stage in DaiViet in Le Dynasty, but i think the structures from Ly dynasty to Le dynasty didn't change a lot. I taked some pictures: http://s334.photobucket.com/albums/m435/ulf9889/weapon/

This game is close beta, but i have some invitations. If you want to take a look, i'll give you my account.

[vietanh797]

Some building

A communal house

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Another communal house, but i think it the same with the 1'st one rearward.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Pagoda:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Another pagoda:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Other building:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Wundai]

Nice

[vietanh797]

Men, this is more than cool! I'd just found these clips and pics. I think they are the extracts of the movie celebrate 1000 years Thang Long (which isn't released).

A lawcourt:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Video clip:
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Cong-Duòng.188753.html

Buddha temple:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Far

Near

Blacksmith

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Village

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Video clip:
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Phó-Thị.188756.html

[vietanh797]

Royal Palace in Thang Long city:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Overview:


Clip: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Than...ua.188740.html

The central building on the picture above, where the King gave audience:
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Diẹn-Thien-An-2.188755.html
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Diẹn-Thien-An.188741.html

From inside to outside the city: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Toàn-cảnh.188760.html

Highland: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Rùng-núi.188759.html

Frontier Post: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Quan-Ải.188757.html

Arena, where tiger vs elephant, an interesting entertainment of the people. http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Dáu-Truòng.188754.html
Sometime, the King invited a foreign diploma came to see a fight beween a gladiator (usually the best captain, bodyguard, or even a general) to a tiger, to indirect warned that "we have many strong men can fight with a tiger, so don't think about fighting with us". Sometime, they executed the serious criminal here, killed him with the elephant.

[vietanh797]

A mandarin's house:
Clip
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Nhà-Quan-1.188750.html
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Nhà-Quan-2.188752.html

Temple of Literature:
Description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_Literature
Clip:
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Van-Miéu.188761.html

Warship:
Huge ship with rower: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-1.188743.html
Royal ship: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-6.188749.html
Small ship: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-5.188748.html
Normal ship: http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-4.188747.html
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-3.188746.html
http://video.zing.vn/video/clip/Thuyèn-Chién-2.188744.html

[Marcion]

So it seems like the Dai Viet basically spent their history surrounded by extremely hostile neighbors, and able to survive by fighting guerrilla defensive wars against invading armies. Abandoning cities and fleeing into the jungles and mountains, and there even the Mongols couldn't beat them.

This is kind of an interesting problem for gameplay, because there's one thing the Dai Viet can do flawlessly well, but they aren't really known for anything else. Obviously they need to have the option to fight a guerrilla defensive war against invaders, abandoning the cities and waiting for favorable conditions to strike an unprepared opposing army, but how should this actually play out? Leaving your cities for the enemy to loot in the game sounds pretty disastrous and painful for the player, and the vanilla strat map doesn't lend itself too well to actual guerrilla warfare (has anyone ever actually used an ambush?) I guess the fundamental problem is that playing the Viet would be a constant struggle for simple survival, not empire building.

I think it warrants careful thought to figure out how we can make engaging gameplay out of a nation in this situation. I'm sure there's some to be had, but it's not something the TW engine was made for.