Events Discussion

[Augustus Lucifer]

Use this thread to discuss anything and everything about historic events.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Here's some from the other dev forum:

1191 Zen Buddhism introduced to Japan by Chinese monk Eisai.

I think in finding events, we need to look for things that were impactful on the area we cover, or would have spread as news to asia, but weren't military events. The one exception being the Ghurid Invasion.

For the Zen Buddhism introduction, it could either be an event that is just purely historic in nature, or it could allow Zen Buddhist temples to be built in Japan(I like this idea), or it could spawn fanatics(not so sure, really would depend on if the idea was controversial, wouldn't be compatible with beign able to build temples).

The Ghurid Invasion should probably happen somewhere between 1195 and 1210. The current mod start date is 1171, that is the earliest the mod will start, though it might be pushed back a few years if we have reason to do so, so obviously the ghurid will be a emergent horde faction, fresh off the conquest of India, looking to expand eastward. We also need to set up the scenario.

Are they strong conquerors who crushed the Indian resistance and are continuing east to conquer Indochina in the name of Mohammed?

Are they failed conquerors who are being attacked in their Turkish possessions and are fleeing to Asia to re-establish their dynasty?

Any other motives?

Thoughts welcome.

1156 (too early yes): death of Lee Zhao Qing, the most famous female poet in Chinese history.
1179 : Zhu Xi rebuilds the Bei-Lu Dong (White Deer cave) acadamy in Tan Zhou (might consider it as a unique wonder building?)
1183: Lu Jio Yuan founds Xian Shang (elephant mountain) acadamy in modern day Jian Xi province
1200 : death of Zhu Xi, the grand master of Li Xue (neo confucisim)
1233: Li Xue became the offical doctorine of the Song dynasty

1165 (again too late) — The Liuhe Pagoda of Hangzhou, China, is built.

1178, Chinese writer Zhou Qufei, a Guangzhou customs officer, wrote of an island far west in the Indian Ocean (possibly Madagascar), from where people with skin "as black as lacquer" and with frizzy hair were captured and purchased as slaves by Arab merchants.

1180-1185, the Genpei War in Japan
1191 Tea from China is introduced to the Japanese.

c.1199 Conflict between the Khmer Empire and Champa. Angkor Wat is built under the Hindu king Suryavarman II. At the end of the century the Buddhist Jayavarman VII becomes ruler.

We need to think carefully about things like the introduction of religious sects, such as Zen.

Chan Buddism, along with Pure Land, were the two major Buddhist sects in China at the time:



When Myōan Eisai returned from China he founded the 'Rinzai school' - one of three schools of Zen Buddhism to establish themselves in Japan and a continuation of the Chinese Linji school, which was founded during the Tang Dynasty by Linji Yixuan .

I am currently trying to map all these various lineages into building trees, I think with the amount buildings possible it would be nice to aim for as much historical accuracy on this as possible.

Indeed, should continue building discussion in the Buildings thread, have posted some other building ideas in there as well.

Along the lines of events, we need to decide how we want to go about the Japanese factions. Obviously historically in 1185 the Minamoto Clan prevailed and the Kamakura Shogunate was the reigning power. When one of the Japanese Clans defeats the other do we want to have the faction change to the Kamakura Shogunate (or whatever equivalent the Taira would have established), or do we want to continue on with Heian Era setting, just with whichever Clan that won the fight being in power, but not necessarily switching to the Shogun setup. This also ties into a trait line for Japanese civil offices, which would change were the country to be reformed into a shogunate.

We could also potentially make it a player decision, after they kill the other Japanese Clan, have a Yes/No prompt ask if they want to form the Kamakura Shogunate, or remain the Taira/Minamoto Clan with Heian politics. I'm not a great historian on the differences in the two systems, but if anyone knows key differences militarily, economically, civil, etc. we could potentially show benefits and ramifications of converting to the Shogunate setup. Any thoughts?

Japan and Other Events

1172
Popular uprisings occur in the Western Border Region of P'yongan Province.

1176
Revolt of Mangi and Mangsoi in the Myonghak forced labor district attached to Kongju.

1182
Uprising of soldiers and government slaves erupts in Chonju

1191
Eisai brings Zen Buddhism to Japan.

1192
Buddhism disappears as an organized religious force in India.

1193
The popular uprisings of Kim Sami and Hyosim.

1194
Temujin is proclaimed "Genghis Khan," the universal prince.

1200
The death of Zhu Xi (1130-1200).

1200
Rebellious slaves and peasants revolt in Hapch'on, Koryo

1206
Genghis Khan is annointed "KhaKhan," the Ruler of Rulers.

1221
Cast iron bombshells appear in China (1467 in Europe).

1232
Movable metal printing type is invented in Koryo.

1232
Koryo capital is moved to Kanghwa Island.

1234
First recorded use of cast metal type in Koryo.

Khmer Events

1177
Jaya Indravarman IV of Champa sacks Angkor and killed its ruler, Tribhuvanadityavarman. Jayavarman, son of Dharanindravarman II, assumes leadership of Khmer resistance.

1181
Jayavarman VII (r. 1181 - d. c. 1215).

1186
Ta Prohm is built. It's dedicated to the mother of Jayavarman VII.

1191
Preah Khan is built. It is dedicated to the father of Jayavarman VII.

1203
Jayavarman VII conquers and annexes Champa.

1215
Indravarman II (r. 1215 - d. c. 1243).

1220
Jaya Parameshvaravarman II becomes King of Champa upon the withdrawal of the Khmers.

1230
Bang Klang T'ao (Indrapatindraditya) becomes King of Sukhodaya, the first Thai (Siamese) state to free itself from Khmer.

1243
Jayavarman VIII (r. 1243 - 1295/96) ascends the Khmer throne. He sponsors the last known royally endow temple. He is said to have lived to the age of 104. Brahmanism is restored as state religion during his reign.

Another thing I've been thinking about. In the main game we will have to limit historical events to those that don't hinge on warfare and the like or scenarios that may not have happened due to player decisions. However, it might be nice if we included a "Real Historical Events" sub-mod produced by the team, that can be selected and included if the player wants, which brings up a scroll each turn or at the start of each year, listing the things that historically happened on that year. So I think it would be good if we post all relevant events, and then we can weed out from the long list which ones can't be included, but will have more so we don't have to do any additional work for a Historical Events sub-mod. Anyone opposed to this?

we probably should not include events like wars or moving of capital, if it's things that the player have control over in games....

Around 1200:

Introduction of the Yassa, a written code of law, created by Genghis Khan. This was a significant event for the Mongols and should conincide with the unification of the tribes, rather than fall on a specific date.

It is thought to have outlined laws for various members of the community like soldiers, officers, doctors, etc. Also addressed some Mongol cultural aspects and lifestyle are reflected specially dealing with environmental matters. Death was the most common punishment including for minor offenses: a soldier not picking up something that fell from the person in front of him would be put to death.

The main purpose was likely to eliminate social and economic disputes among the Mongols and future allied people. Among the rules was that there would be no stealing of livestock from other people, sharing foods with travellers, stealing women from other families, or defecting among soldiers. It represented a day-to-day set of rules for people under Mongol control that was enforced strictly with very stiff punishments for violators.

People were free to worship as they pleased, as long as the laws of the Yassa were observed.

The word Yassa translates into "order" or "decree". The Yassa was written on scrolls and bound into volumes that could only be seen by the Khan or his closest advisors, but the rules in the content were widely known and were followed.

For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yassa and more source material here: http://www.coldsiberia.org/webdoc9.h...m%20Vernadsky:

It would be great if Temujin could 'become' Genghis Khan, or perhaps Genghis Khan is a unique title available only to him ? I think I the Yassa would obviously bring public order benefits to say all Mongol governors, but it could also open up certain, more sedantry style buildings/tech.

[Syiedthebard]

Currently unfluffed event:

1206 - Muhammad Shahab-ud-Din Ghori, brother to Sultan Ghiyas-ud-din Muhmammad, dies. Consequently, Qutb-ud-din Aybak, Ghori's best general, declares himself the Sultan of Delhi.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Okay what I've done is created 98 events to cover the years 1173-1271. These events titled "historical_year_####" trigger every ~4 turns since there is 4 turns per year. In these events things that would normally not "happen" in the game because they are contradictory in nature, or things which are to insignificant to warrant their own event, can be listed as things that happened in that historical year. Since not everyone will want to get that prompt every 4 turns, it will be very simple to just comment out the lines in the file and provide it as a patch to remove them if people like.

[Xuande]

1208 (April) : A great fire devastates the overcrowded Song capital, Lin'an (Hangzhou). 58 100 houses are burnt to the ground. The emperor has to relocate the homeless in daoist and buddhist temples while the town is rebuilt. 400 tons of rice are distributed to the poor.

source : Jacques Gernet, "La vie quotidienne en Chine a la veille de l'invasion mongole" (Life in China before the Mongol invasion).

[STELLover]

1208 (April) : A great fire devastates the overcrowded Song capital, Lin'an (Hangzhou). 58 100 houses are burnt to the ground. The emperor has to relocate the homeless in daoist and buddhist temples while the town is rebuilt. 400 tons of rice are distributed to the poor.

source : Jacques Gernet, "La vie quotidienne en Chine a la veille de l'invasion mongole" (Life in China before the Mongol invasion).

Looks good,

What about this: 1180- High General of Goryeo killed

General Jung Joong Bu, a famous warlord in Goryeo has been killed due to many generals fighting over political and military dominance over Goryeo. His death would bring rebellion of many armies and sudden drop of public order

Sort of related to this one-

1182
Uprising of soldiers and government slaves erupts in Chonju

- Historically 5 rebellions happened as a result of his death
- Decrease public order in settlements? I hope that is possible

[tokimitsu]

Japan and Other Events

1172
Popular uprisings occur in the Western Border Region of P'yongan Province.

1176
Revolt of Mangi and Mangsoi in the Myonghak forced labor district attached to Kongju.

1182
Uprising of soldiers and government slaves erupts in Chonju

1191
Eisai brings Zen Buddhism to Japan.

1192
Buddhism disappears as an organized religious force in India.

1193
The popular uprisings of Kim Sami and Hyosim.

1194
Temujin is proclaimed "Genghis Khan," the universal prince.

1200
The death of Zhu Xi (1130-1200).

1200
Rebellious slaves and peasants revolt in Hapch'on, Koryo

1206
Genghis Khan is annointed "KhaKhan," the Ruler of Rulers.

1221
Cast iron bombshells appear in China (1467 in Europe).

1232
Movable metal printing type is invented in Koryo.

1232
Koryo capital is moved to Kanghwa Island.

1234
First recorded use of cast metal type in Koryo.

May I add some important events of Goryeo?

1170 The treason of Moo-shins(millitary officials) in Goryeo. They slaughtered lots of Nobles, civil ministers and excuteded King Ui-jong.
General Jeong Jung Bu came into power. He made New King Myeong-jong as a puppet

1172
Popular uprisings by peasants occur in the North-Western Border Region of P'yong-an Province.

1173~1174 Nobles and civil ministers's rebellion to revenge for killing King in the North-Western Border Region of P'yong-an Province.

1179 A young famous millitary official, Kyeong Dea Seung assasinated General Jeong Jung Bu and Moo-shins who did treason.
Kyeong came to power and did reformation. Dead in1183

1183 General Yi Ui Min came into power.


1196 General Choe Chung Heon killed General Yi and came into power.
His clan ruled Goryeo about 60 years, making Kings as puppets.

1198 General Choe's slave Man-Jeok's urising plan.

1225 Mongols diplomat been Killed in the border between Goryeo and Mongols.

1231 Mongols invasion to Goryo (Goryeo surrendered in 1274)

1232 Koryo capital is moved to Kanghwa Island. because of Mongols Invasion.

1234 First invented and recorded use of cast metal type in Koryeo.

1237 Goryeo maded and printed the compelete collection of Buddhist Sutras.

1238 Hwang-Ryong Temple of Goryeo, a biggest temple in Asia, been burned out by Mongols.

[mirratord]

1194
Great Yellow River Flood (Jin Dynasty)
Yellow River burst its banks and altered course

1211
Genghis Khan mounts first campaign agaisnt the Jin

1213-14
Mongols reach Beijing

1215
Beijing falls to Mongols

1230
Chinese commerical taxes introduced in the Mongol Empire

1233
Jin Dynasty falls

1246
John of Plano Carpini arrives in the Mongol Empire(doesnt specify where) to try to persuade the Mongols to support the Crusaders against the Saracens

1250s
William of Rubruck (Papal legate) arrives in Karakorum

1271
Khubilai adopts a Chinese dynastic title (Yuan)

1279
All of China is brought under Mongol rule




oh and btw
on my trusty book it says Temujin was declared Genghis Khan in 1206
and
Qara-Khitai was (destroyed?) in 1211

[vietanh797]

DaiViet events:

1208, Nghe An region (southern DaiViet) rebeled. The Tran's family help the king put it down, became a famous family and was gradually holding almost power in the court. To 1225, the last queen of Ly dynasty, a 9 year old girl Ly Chieu Hoang, under the pressure of Tran Thu Do, the true ruler of the country, ceded the throne for her husband, Tran Canh (Tran Thu Do's nephew, 8 years old). This was the end of Ly dynasty.

1257: Mongol first invasion.

[mirratord]

DaiViet events:

1257: Mongol first invasion.

I think for the Mongol invasion, maybe the stacks shouldn't spawn next to the Jin border, thats basically a big arrow sign saying "Kick the out of the Jin", I think they should spawn close to the border, but not close to any specific border and not so close to one country's border, that it would take 2 or 3 turns to move your new horde army to the nation you WANT to overrun. For example, you wanna kick some Kara-Khitai ass and your horde spawns next to the Jin...greaatt

[Marcion]

I think for the Mongol invasion, maybe the stacks shouldn't spawn next to the Jin border, thats basically a big arrow sign saying "Kick the out of the Jin", I think they should spawn close to the border, but not close to any specific border and not so close to one country's border, that it would take 2 or 3 turns to move your new horde army to the nation you WANT to overrun. For example, you wanna kick some Kara-Khitai ass and your horde spawns next to the Jin...greaatt

I'm of the mind that the Mongol invasion should be left to the player. The idea so far for the Mongols is that they start out with a bunch of rebel tribes that need to be united before you can even begin to think about conquering anyone. Having some kind of scripted invasion would kind of nullify their starting disadvantage, and force them into acting in a way that isn't necessary. Not to mention that the Mongols first invaded the Xia (and failed).

[mirratord]

I'm of the mind that the Mongol invasion should be left to the player. The idea so far for the Mongols is that they start out with a bunch of rebel tribes that need to be united before you can even begin to think about conquering anyone. Having some kind of scripted invasion would kind of nullify their starting disadvantage, and force them into acting in a way that isn't necessary. Not to mention that the Mongols first invaded the Xia (and failed).

Can't you script the invasion to XXX years after conquering all Mongol core territories? And I dont think that it matters historically who the Mongols invaded first, I think the choice should be left to the player if there is an invasion script.

[Marcion]

Well, what I'm getting at is that we can't make assumptions about what the player's priorities are at any given point. They may be fighting off a Jin invasion in the year they're supposed to invade China. Or they may want to wait until a good opportunity presents itself. I would hope they get some units as a reward for subduing all the Mongolian tribes, but we shouldn't make decisions for them.

[vietanh797]

Yeah, i think all the Mongol invasions should be left to the player too. Think about if Mongol had been destroyed and then suddently appear some Mongol stacks form nowhere in Japan or DaiViet. It's so illogical.

But i wonder can some faction, like Mongol or Kara-Khitan, become a horde like BI?

And another note in DaiViet even: after forced the Queen of Ly dynasty ceded her throne for Tran Canh 1225, even the power of Tran family in the court at that time was very strong, but to prevented the disastrous consequences from the other members of Ly family, Tran Thu Do decided to root them out. In the anniversary of Ly's ancestors, 1232, when almost Ly's family members gathered in their homeland to worship their ancestors, Tran Thu Do killed them all (or "send them to meet their ancestors" ). The other Ly's family members, who luckily didn't come to the worship, scared that they will be next, ran away to another country (like prince Ly Long Tuong, Korean: 이용상/Yi Yong Sang came to Goryeo), or mix with the civilian. This was nearly a bloodless overthrow, without blood of the common people, but of course it wasn't easy for the Ly family.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Factions can become hordes. That is a slightly buggy mechanic though and from what I remember reading the 'horde targets' are a really curious thing. That's something to look at down the road, since it doesn't directly effect the game board at the outset, so to speak, but is more ancillary in utility.

[Marcion]

I'm reminded, since I'm arguing about this on the BC forum now, how are we going to deal with the civil war of the Khitan, and the fact that most of their territory is off our map too? The Uighur king in Turfan rebelled in support of Genghis Khan in 1209, the Karluqs did the same in 1211. And of course the Naiman usurper came to "power" at the same time. He tried to quell revolt in Kashgar, then he hid there from the Mongols, then he ran away and got killed.

So what's going to happen to that little speck of their territory in terms of this? The Mongol invasion shouldn't be too scripted, since the player is ostensibly in control of Genghis, but what about the Naiman usurper, the Karluqs and Uighur? The downfall of the Khitan came about because they were over-extended and trying to rule over too many diverse parties who had no strong attachments to them. How's that going to relate to the player's decision-making?

[Yelü Dashi]

Jeez, what did the Khitans ever do to you Marcion ? Now you're trying to say they shouldn't be in BC 3.0 ! Even if new map will include majority of their territory ? (thats not public knowledge yet). Hmmm, I might just have to look at doing something radical to our map just to silence such dissent ! I'm all for making the Khitan player's life a misery, that will make them more intersting play, but just becuse they got 'pwned by the Mongols' doesn't mean they weren't a state and master of central asia in our period.

You say they were "doomed" but who wasn't once they had GK's hordes parked outside their cities ?

[Augustus Lucifer]

You do realize you're trying to convince a guy with a Khitan name to nerf the Khitans eh Marcion?

In all seriousness, artistic liberties where necessary says I!

[Marcion]

Now, I didn't say "nerf", just "rethink."

The huge extension to the BC map makes sense, I was hoping to provoke them into giving away details...

At least extending our map to Balasagun would make sense, being the actual center of Khitan authority, rather than tributary states. This way we could potentially have tribal rebellion events, and Kuchlug's rather "biblical" attempts to suppress Islam.

[Yelü Dashi]

Quite right. Otherwise you could easily say the Taira clan were a "doomed, out-of-scope" faction inevitably going get eaten by the Minamoto...or that the Bagan Empire was "doomed" to fail due to conflict between Pyu, Burman & Mon peoples with no common culture to unify them. etc etc ad nauseum...