The weapon upgrade gives +6 attack and so totally ruins battles from a realism standpoint.
But if we remove it we don't get the pretty upgraded weapons.
I want to know what people think about this.
Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
The weapon upgrade gives +6 attack and so totally ruins battles from a realism standpoint.
But if we remove it we don't get the pretty upgraded weapons.
I want to know what people think about this.
Campidoctor
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
It's not possible to change the bonus of the building to +1 or +2?
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Nope, it's hardcoded to give +6 or nothing.
Campidoctor
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
think of it as the difference between a sharp blade and a dull blade...
"The Turks are never trapped. It's the people who surround them who are in trouble."Anthony Hebert
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Remember to smile
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
@Xtiaan72 Not an option.
@ Taiji You should make a poll on this matter....
I think there is options:
1)Alter: Xtiaan's request, but its not going to happen.
2)Restriction: Make it really har to aquire. Excample: The "sword" guild gives very small amount of XP points until HQ-building. The HQ-buildings also require Forge Shop to give the weapon upgrade. Basicly, make it hard to aquire.
3) Abolish: If the above is not possible, then Option 3 is delete weapon upgrade. The player is smarter then TW-engine anyway.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Originally Posted by Finn
Campidoctor
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Restriction seems like the best option given the options. Either that or give player the option at beginning ae..."garrison script"
I have to concur that this building makes it almost impossible to balance units properly....Giving random factions a huge advantage that basically could screw up whole campaigns.
Tiro
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Please, sensible battles.
Personally, I do not care as much for the graphical beauty of the game as for its "playability", if you know what I mean.
Cheers.
Remember to smile
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
double post
Last edited by Kjertesvein; January 15, 2009 at 01:46 PM.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Decanus
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
i think i actuary prefer the default weapons over the shiny ones, don't abolish the sword smith guild though make it give experience or something.
Remember to smile
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Hey I agree on this, but every time I see experience upgrade in other games. Then I just skip it. It feels tiny and unimportent.
We should shape this into something attractive, instead of just a few "2+XP upgrade".
Maybe write down, in the building-text, what excactly XP does to the game.
Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga- The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
I just made a little minimod which tries to sort this out. You can check it out here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...14#post4281014
Tiro
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Hi Taiji,
Don't you ever eat, sleep, work, or do anything different than messing with DLV's files?
I wish I could do something like that with my time management!
Cheers
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Okay guys think of it this way - the default weapon, is a blunted blade - forged within an hour and would probably break vs Wood,
the upgraded blade is sharpened steel that has been made for weeks to perfect it - and would probably be +6 vs the other blade
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
How badly does this upgrade ruin unit balance?
Basically is it necessary to download the fix listed here to get even fights on 5.74 using Taji's balance mod?
Took me two afternoons to get 5.74 + Graphics Pack + Taji's Mod going and I just wanna get into it
Senator
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
i dont think that two are the only options taiji
-asign the +1 weapon model to the +0 "real" situation.
-eliminate the +1 situation.
there.
third option: nice weapons + sensible combat.
be careful though, that weapon upgrades that exist no more means
-certain buildings are not built (+money for the player)
-building requirement list must be thoroughfully tested.
-certain building bonuses might become not so good. there you will have to figure which bonus would be fit to add.
hint: weaponsmith may become "master of arms" and add morale or experience
Last edited by ivanhoex; January 15, 2009 at 07:07 PM.
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
@Butmunkie, +6 attack basically ruins any chance of having an accurate model for armor. It makes all units a lot more vulnerable than they should be. I'm not sure my fix will work for 5.74 since I've used 5.8 as a base. I'd recommend you install 5.8, then the Rusichi/Battle Balance update and then this weapon upgrade fix if you want the best battlefield experience. Sorry but I suspect doing as I recommend will disable Blueoran's graphics pack which is to be combined with 5.8 on a later beta or release.
@Ivanhoex, nice weapons + sensible combat? That sounds like it could be a lot of work. If you have an easy way to do it then I'm interested
Last edited by Taiji; January 15, 2009 at 07:41 PM.
Senator
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
for start, i do not know what kind of work does it implies.
i have almost not touched the mdb for example, and i have this little prejudice that tells me there is the thing to be fiddle around.
hipotetizing over no knowledge then, i will assume this to have a 10% chance to work:
-backup mdb
-run a search and replace for all lines with "weapon model: " to "TAGGG"
-change instances of "upgraded weapon model: " into "weapon model: "
-change instances of "TAGGG" into "upgraded weapon model"
-run the game....
-restore backaped edb, come back here and tell me to do it myself if i am so smart..
i never got tired of that line XD
-if all stars are aligned and you actually succeeded, its time to EDB... if you keep track of changed buildings in a .txt it wont be half as hard... i dont think this would be the worst part. and from the other thread i presume you have already started work there
there is no reason why you should be doing this yourself anyway, if anyone with the skill and time is reading this, know that it will probably become a must have for every proper DLVer and so a lot of cookies will be pm“d your way!
Last edited by ivanhoex; January 15, 2009 at 08:02 PM.
Foederatus
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Sensible battles please, otherwise +6 is going to ruin the balance. Didn't check your minimod but the description implies that if the lack of weapon upgrade can be countered by introducing +morale or +experience I'd say go for it. Introduce a building or two which are expensive to build with these bonuses.
Civis
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
Yes, having it upgrade experience instead of the +6 is probably the most sensible and balanced thing to do.
Re: Pretty weapons or sensible battles?
@ivanhoex, lol, mate if it looked easy to do I would be all over it. My guess about how to do it is much more work intensive, the only way that makes sense to me is to edit the meshes for all the models for whom we want to see the upgraded weapons. So, convert the meshes to .ms3d (3-4 per unit), convert the attachment textures to .dds and finally edit each model so that it uses the correct textures. Maybe when you get into the flow of things it will take 20 mins per unit, for me at least the first couple will take a lot more. Also it will mean that every unit changed will need to be included in the next version of DLV which might mean a big increase in the download size.
@Joh, Honestly, if I had a life I probably wouldn't be doing this. Please don't rub it in!
Last edited by Taiji; January 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM.
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