A prelude to the Holocaust? Massacres of Jews during WWI and the Russian Civil War

[Randarkmaan]

Extract from the diary of Helena Yablonska, presented in the documentary “The First World War”

She was a resident of the town of Przemysl, in Austria-Hungary near the Russian border. When the Russians took control of the town they immediately started rooting out the Jews, who made up a third of the population of the town.

30 March 1915

Jews are treated with no mercy. They cut the beard and sideburns off the old rabbi from Bircza, then strapped him to a horse and dragged him away. They beat his wife. Jews are not allowed to own any shops.


1 April 1915

The Russkies make fun of the Jews, saying they can munch their matzos for now, but when Passover is finished they’ll sort them out. Send them to Siberia.

17 April


The Cossacks waited until the Jews went off to pray, then set upon them with whips, taking them from synagogues, streets and doorsteps. Many hundreds of Jews. What will they do with them? Some of the older weaker ones couldn’t keep up and were whipped. The roundup will go on until they have caught the lot. Such lamenting and despair. Some hide in cellars, but the Russians will find them.

A few hours ago, I felt like watching The Pianist, because I had not seen it in a long time, and only once earlier. After I saw it, it is a wonderful, tragic movie by the way for those who have not seen it. Some time after that I watched an episode of The First World War documentary (which I had seen earlier on YouTube, posted here in the history video thread, but I’ve got the DVD set now, because it feels more... right), the episode on the Eastern Front.

In the Russian Empire Jews were limited (with a few token exceptions) to living within an area known as the Pale of Settlement. They were lacking in rights afforded to other minorities of the Empire, paid double taxes (or atleast much more unfair) and only a handful were allowed education and they were severely restricted in their choice of career. Pogroms, anti-Semitic riots, happened from time to time and took the lives of thousands, burned homes and confiscated what little property they had, as well as exposed them to explicit ridicule.

The documentary mentions that after a German offensive pushed the Russians back in 1915, many Russians looked to the Jews as scapegoats. They didn’t look Russian, Yiddish sounded suspiciously like German and I bet they had no illusions regarding whether or not Jews were satisfied with life under Russian rule.

Across the Pale of Settlement Jews were targeted. They were killed, robbed and/or uprooted from their homes and (I think) they were deported to Siberia. It is said (in the documentary) that it is not known how many Jews were killed in Eastern Europe during WWI, but out of the roughly 600 000 who were uprooted, 200 000 never returned, how many were “killed on the spot” I do not know. In addition there were a number of pogroms during the Russian civil war following the revolution, the wikipedia article says that between 70 000-250 000 Jewish civilians were killed following the 1917 revolution and ensuing civil war, most of the massacres were perpetrated by Ukrainian nationalist groups (who are also mentioned prominently in the famous series “Shoah” about the Holocaust). At the start of WWI there were an estimated 4 million Jews living in the Russian Empire.


Anyway what really struck has to do with the diary extract I posted, and The Pianist. The diary extracts tell about how the Russians “exported” their treatment of the Jews to the cities and territories they occupy and how they soon systematically round up the Jews and take them away to God knows where. The reason this caught my attention is how ghastly similar this is to what is shown in The Pianist, where the Jews of Warsaw start by losing their rights and are then treated as animals and hunted down like animals by the Germans. What I think is that, as in the thread title (I usually make horrible thread titles, but this time it’s not too bad), this almost seems as a “prelude” to the Holocaust.

Anyway, anyone else have thoughts about this? Or happen to know more about the Russian massacrs of Jews during WWI and possibly the civil war as well?
I haven’t got around to thinking or reading too much on it yet, but I was just wondering what you all think, see if I can learn something or get some sort of ball rolling.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Jews and Russia go together like Hindus and steaks, Ive yet to recall anytime in Russia where there was any semblance of tolerance to the Jews.

[ComnenusTheOne]

Jews and Russia go together like Hindus and steaks, Ive yet to recall anytime in Russia where there was any semblance of tolerance to the Jews.

Should they?

[Ishoss]

Should they?

...What? If Russia should be open to Jews? Obviously they should! As long as you pay your taxes, don't plot against my state, don't do anything wacky or break the law you should be allowed to live everywhere, regardless of what you are.

[ComnenusTheOne]

...What? If Russia should be open to Jews? Obviously they should! As long as you pay your taxes, don't plot against my state, don't do anything wacky or break the law you should be allowed to live everywhere, regardless of what you are.

Thats what YOU, a western european possibly, from a country that lost its own culture due to the high number of immigrants and the decadence of capitalism, think, 100 years (!!!) after these events in a Car's Russia, that kept the feudal system, and kept being a backwards country post-rennaissance, due to those 300 years of Mongol occupation.......so yeah, why would the Car want those jews?

[Pallantides]

Thats what YOU, a western european possibly, from a country that lost its own culture due to the high number of immigrants and the decadence of capitalism,

Ishoss lives in one of the richest and greatest countries on earth, trust me his country never lost it's culture....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Shrapnel]

lost its own culture due to the high number of immigrants.... decadence of capitalism

[rusina]

It's funny that Total Fanatic haven't yet commented this thread. He has strange habbit ignoring things that could somehow break his bubble, where Soviet Union/Russia never have done anything bad.

[Dr. Croccer]

It should also be mentioned that the Germans sympathised with the Jews, mainly to get more supporters both there and inside Germany. A good series about it:

[Pallantides]

Where is Total Fanatic?:hmmm:

[Godless Pickle]

Jews were always disliked in Europe, but due to their immense wealth and power in European society nothing coild be done. I dont recall jewish massacres in Germany and Russia, though Im sure during the Purges of the 1930s in Russia thousands of Jews were killed. And thousands more restricted to living areas and hardly any rights.

[Randarkmaan]

Jews were always disliked in Europe, but due to their immense wealth and power in European society nothing coild be done.

Somewhat true for Western Europe after the Jewish emancipation of the 19th century, but NOT for Russia (that is the Russian Empire, roughly the area of the former Soviet Union. In Russia Jews were amongst the most destitute (if not THE most destitute) of all ethnic groups and had severe restrictions placed on their freedom and they were at the mercy of Cossacks and other murderers. Might be part why so many early Russian socialists were Jews. And why so many Russian Jews left for America and Palestine (later Israel).

I dont recall jewish massacres in Germany and Russia, though Im sure during the Purges of the 1930s in Russia thousands of Jews were killed. And thousands more restricted to living areas and hardly any rights.

Don't think there was anything specifically against Jews at that time, the Pale of Settlement had been abolished in 1917, so Jews were no longer restricted in their settlement. But after WWII Stalin targetted Jews on a pretty large scale, don't quite remember the details of that.

[Nikitn]

Don't think there was anything specifically against Jews at that time, the Pale of Settlement had been abolished in 1917, so Jews were no longer restricted in their settlement. But after WWII Stalin targetted Jews on a pretty large scale, don't quite remember the details of that.

He thought they were conspiring against him or something. Fortunately it quickly weared off after his death.

But yes, trash Czars like Alexander III made the Russian empire a very bad place for Jews in his reign. But I didn't know they were prosecuted this badly after his death..

[Kiljan Arslan]

There is one thing I could argue definatley helped start the engine of the holocoust and helped cause those Pogroms in Russia.

[Babur]

There is one thing I could argue definatley helped start the engine of the holocoust and helped cause those Pogroms in Russia.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion right?

Well it was a hoax

But despite this Hitler claimed that it was 100% true in Mein Kampf.

[Kiljan Arslan]

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion right?

Well it was a hoax

But despite this Hitler claimed that it was 100% true in Mein Kampf.

Yes and most likley influenced his and many other Germans views.

[Heathen Hammer]

With many capitalist and bank owners in Imperial Russia being Jewish that sounds pretty weird. However there were large anti-semitic movements in Poland, Ukraine and Baltic at that time which brought a lot of violence during civil war.
Probably Austro-Hungarian writer had to expose enemies of her country as baby-eating anti-semites. Reminds me of French propaganda on WW1 Germans who according to which actually did eat babies.

[jankren]

Now we know which peoples murdered the most Juice. Now please move them from Palestine to each respective country as an atonement for their sins to the Juice.

[Romano-Dacis]

Oh man, how are events happening in a country hundreds of kilomenters away and with a different system of governance, which fought against Germany, and events which happened two decades earlier a prelude to the holocaust?

Jeez, talk about desperation to badmouth Russians.

In any case, the Russian Revolution was (like almost all communist movements) with a heavy involvement of Jews. Lenin, Trotsky, Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) - Bolshevik party's executive secretary, Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) - headed the Communist International (Comintern), Press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky. Of the initial 12 planners of the revolution there were four Russians, one Georgian (Stalin), one Pole (Dzerzhinsky), and six Jews. To direct the takeover, a seven-man "Political Bureau" was chosen. It consisted of two Russians, one Georgian (Stalin), and four Jews (Trotsky, Sokolnikov, Zinoviev, and Kamenev).
Even Winston Churchill said:

There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews.

[The Noble Lord]

When you are trying to present Russian Revolution being supposedly "The creation of the Jews" you have to point out that all of those revolutionaries of Jewish origin were 110% Internationalists, atheists, and staunch Marxists with loyalty only to the working class and the world revolution.
To say that Trotsky, Sverdlov, Zinoviev, Kamenev, Radek, and others were "Jewish and wanted to control the world trough the revolution" is ludicrous and doesn't make sense at all.
All of these men were revolutionaries first and forgot their Judaism long ago, as a matter of fact every single one of them was militant atheist and Internationalist. Furthermore, the quotes that you used are the same ones that Nazis used and Antisemites across the world still use. It's the pure example of Anti-Semitic propaganda.