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Thread: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

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  1. #1
    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Life As We Know It Nearly Created in Lab

    One of life's greatest mysteries is how it began. Scientists have pinned it down to roughly this:

    Some chemical reactions occurred about 4 billion years ago — perhaps in a primordial tidal soup or maybe with help of volcanoes or possibly at the bottom of the sea or between the mica sheets — to create biology.

    Now scientists have created something in the lab that is tantalizingly close to what might have happened.

    It's not life, they stress, but it certainly gives the science community a whole new data set to chew on.

    The researchers, at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, Calif., created molecules that self-replicate and even evolve and compete to win or lose. If that sounds exactly like life, read on to learn the controversial and thin distinction.

    Know your RNA

    To understand the remarkable breakthrough, detailed Jan. 8 in the early online edition of the journal Science, you have to know a little about molecules called RNA and DNA.

    DNA is the software of life, the molecules that pack all the genetic information of a cell. DNA and the genes within it are where mutations occur, enabling changes that create new species.

    RNA is the close cousin to DNA. More accurately, RNA is thought to be a primitive ancestor of DNA.

    RNA can't run a life form on its own, but 4 billion years ago it might have been on the verge of creating life, just needing some chemical fix to make the leap.

    In today's world, RNA is dependent on DNA for performing its roles, which include coding for proteins.

    If RNA is in fact the ancestor to DNA, then scientists have figured they could get RNA to replicate itself in a lab without the help of any proteins or other cellular machinery. Easy to say, hard to do.

    But that's exactly what the Scripps researchers did. Then things went surprisingly further.

    'Immortalized'

    Specifically, the researchers synthesized RNA enzymes that can replicate themselves without the help of any proteins or other cellular components, and the process proceeds indefinitely.

    "Immortalized" RNA, they call it, at least within the limited conditions of a laboratory.

    More significantly, the scientists then mixed different RNA enzymes that had replicated, along with some of the raw material they were working with, and let them compete in what's sure to be the next big hit: "Survivor: Test Tube."

    Remarkably, they bred.

    And now and then, one of these survivors would screw up, binding with some other bit of raw material it hadn't been using. Hmm. That's exactly what life forms do ...

    When these mutations occurred, "the resulting recombinant enzymes also were capable of sustained replication, with the most fit replicators growing in number to dominate the mixture," the scientists report.

    The "creatures" — wait, we can't call them that! — evolved, with some "species" winning out.

    "It kind of blew me away," said team member Tracey Lincoln of the Scripps Research Institute, who is working on her Ph.D. "What we have is non-living, but we've been able to show that it has some life-like properties, and that was extremely interesting."

    Indeed.

    Knocking on life's door

    Lincoln's advisor, professor Gerald Joyce, reiterated that while the self-replicating RNA enzyme systems share certain characteristics of life, they are not life as we know it.

    "What we've found could be relevant to how life begins, at that key moment when Darwinian evolution starts," Joyce said in a statement.

    Joyce's restraint, clear also on an NPR report of the finding, has to be appreciated. He allows that some scientists familiar with the work have argued that this is life.

    Another scientist said that what the researchers did is equivalent to recreating a scenario that might have led to the origin of life.

    Joyce insists he and Lincoln have not created life: "We're knocking on that door," he says, "but of course we haven't achieved that."

    Only when a system is developed in the lab that has the capability of evolving novel functions on its own can it be properly called life, Joyce said. In short, the molecules in Joyce's lab can't evolve any totally new tricks, he said.
    Source

    What we need now is a spaceship and a habitable planet, go dump some of this stuff in a puddle. Wait a couple billion years for intelligent life to evolve and we can watch them kill each other over our divine nature.



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    Last edited by Big War Bird; January 14, 2009 at 09:35 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    is that for real? Or is it a hoax? Cos it really sounds too amazing to be true.
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    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    I would just like to highlight one part of this.

    Knocking on life's door

    Lincoln's advisor, professor Gerald Joyce, reiterated that while the self-replicating RNA enzyme systems share certain characteristics of life, they are not life as we know it.

    "What we've found could be relevant to how life begins, at that key moment when Darwinian evolution starts," Joyce said in a statement.
    In other words this is research regarding abiogenesis, not evolution. Regardless if God directly created these molecules, God created the universe with physical laws that caused these molecules or if the universe is a natural occurance without divine involvement would the process we call evolution have to take place between then and now.

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    Ragabash's Avatar Mayhem Crop Jet
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    Default Re: Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    In other words this is research regarding abiogenesis, not evolution.
    Abiogenesis and very early evolution of life are very hard to research separate from each other. At the same time, when we try to find answers how life began on earth, it will very likely also give us more light on evolutionary development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    Regardless if God directly created these molecules, God created the universe with physical laws that caused these molecules or if the universe is a natural occurance without divine involvement would the process we call evolution have to take place between then and now.
    You should never mix religious ideologies with scientific theories when speaking about actual science. I could understand this approach should you want to discuss on theological theories or pseudo-sciene, but would very much advice to leave real science outside these thoughts.
    Last edited by Ragabash; January 14, 2009 at 04:43 AM.
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    Adar's Avatar Just doing it
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    Default Re: Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragbear View Post
    You should never mix religious ideologies with scientific theories when speaking about actual science. I could understand this approach should you want to discuss on theological theories or pseudo-sciene, but would very much advice to leave real science outside these thoughts.
    It's a necessity when discussing on a forum that only can be describe as "popular science" since discussions here normally are regarding layman learning. My personal vendetta is against creationists who are unable to separate God, evolution and abiogenesis. This article is a perfect example on how they are separated.

    Politics will always be involved, if creationist attempts at influencing the curriculum are succesful will the recruitment base for scientists become smaller and of lower quality since precious education time is spent on fairy tales. Many people are religious and honestly believes that the question "Does God exist?" is closely linked to "Is evolution real?". This is the idea that I try to battle.

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    Ragabash's Avatar Mayhem Crop Jet
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    Default Re: Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    It's a necessity when discussing on a forum that only can be describe as "popular science" since discussions here normally are regarding layman learning.
    Once you start and use religious arguments to disprove or prove scientific theories, you start but pseudo-sciencific argument at best.
    Last edited by Ragabash; January 29, 2009 at 07:13 AM.
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  7. #7
    Holger Danske's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    And that is how ''God'' aka. Kang created life on Earth, the End.

  8. #8

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    I want to colonize Mars now

  9. #9

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    We've known about this sort of thing since miller-urey. But still a good find.

  10. #10

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Playfishpaste View Post
    We've known about this sort of thing since miller-urey. But still a good find.
    This isn't really like Miller-Urey. In that experiment they dropped some stuff in a beaker and lit a spark. As a result they got some organic compounds including amino acids.

    In this experiment we have self replicating RNA molecules. Arguably far more exciting.

  11. #11

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by ajm317 View Post
    This isn't really like Miller-Urey. In that experiment they dropped some stuff in a beaker and lit a spark. As a result they got some organic compounds including amino acids.

    In this experiment we have self replicating RNA molecules. Arguably far more exciting.
    Which we have known about since miller-urey. Just didn't really have the chops to pull it off. It's pretty much like going to the moon, always knew we could do it, but it just looks amazing to the public once it's actually pulled off. This isn't nearly as challenging as organizing a trip to a satellite though.

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    Manoflooks's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    What we need now is a spaceship and a habitable planet, go dump some of this stuff in a puddle. Wait a couple billion years for intelligent life to evolve and we can watch them kill each other over our divine nature.

    Actually, that's a great idea. I wish i could live billions of years to see the day, so humans could realize how stupid they look and sound. (Often they do, anyway.) Watching people do what you do can do that to people.
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    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Awsome. I can't wait til' they get further into this stuff.

  14. #14

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    It's like Spore, but more froody.
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Cluny the Scourge View Post
    It's like Spore, but more froody.
    Yes it's exactly like a video game. This is a video game.

  16. #16

    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Can the god squad leave this thread out of their nonsense please?

    That experiment sounds really cool. Have they released any information on where they plan to go next with their studies? Because I would like a land dolphin.

  17. #17
    BritPatriot1815's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Well the people with massive nerdy glasses ,AKA scientists, say that life on Earth might of started by chemical reactions in water to create protein which is vital for life, so we need to melt the ice caps on Mars & make these chemical reaction, make an artificial magnetic field of some description & then plants will come, they'll sort out that old troublemaker CO2 & turn it into oxygen, soon animals will evolve there &we can pop over for visits, we would take over Mars but not Roman style (Invade militarily for the heck of it), but just to set up 'zoos' to study the Martian creatures.

    Of course you guys will be thinking how do you check on them, simple, build buildings, tunnels & lookout places, which would be pressurised to what we would normally experience on Earth & just watch them from there, maybe pressurised cities for tourists, lol. If intelligent life comes along, PROBLEM!!!
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    Ragabash's Avatar Mayhem Crop Jet
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    What?
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    BritPatriot1815's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Just me kicking up ideas
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    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: U.S. Scientists create life, . . . sort of, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
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    What we need now is a spaceship and a habitable planet, go dump some of this stuff in a puddle. Wait a couple billion years for intelligent life to evolve and we can watch them kill each other over our divine nature.



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    Sounds like fun....
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    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; May 11, 2011 at 03:43 AM.

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