===Realistic Horse Mod Project ===

[HorseArcher]

As we all know, there are many different horses in the world. There are significant visual difference between an arab horse or a european northern horse types and italian "stallions". So far, none of the mods i have seen had any modification to the horses, only chivalry total war managed to give real saddles for the horses, but the horses itself stayed the same.
Since i cannot use 3D smax to change the structure of a horse or create more, I am asking if someone would have the motivation and free time to look into this matter. I understand, that in ancient times, there weren't as many breeds and cross-over breeds as today, but i'm sure that they looked different and had some difference by factions. for start:
Akhal Teke


http://hiddentrails.com/general/breeds/Akhal_Teke.htm

Arabian


Parthian

http://www.parthia.com/parthia_horses_burris.htm

Camargue


Lusitano
Lusitano horses are generally between 15.1 - 15.3 h.h but there are some that make over 16 h.h. Often gray or bay, they may be any true color, including dun and chestnut.


Roman times horses:
http://www.fellpony.f9.co.uk/fells/r...k/friesian.htm

Other useful links:
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/
http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/
http://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecare/Breeds/breeds.htm
http://www.turanianhorse.org/
http://www.equihex.com/zFullSize1.gif
http://www.cellinifinegifts.com/enesco_horsebreeds1.htm





http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Horse.html
http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipme...rse-Parade.html
http://www.parthia.com/parthia_horses_burris.htm


Sorry, if you get pop-ups, since i don't know i'm using firefox, so i don't get pop ups no matter what site i visit. There are literally millions of references on the web, i only did a quick search, but i'm sure there are more pictures and explanations etc. about what horse and where and how.

I hope, someone will pick up on this subject

[HorseArcher]

45 views and no replies................EB is kidnapping the modelers or what? Or this idea is jut bad? I'll give it a few days and i'll close it if no one cares.

[Spartan]

Things been real slow lately around here. EB has everyone that is active doing stuff and Burebista and friends are no where to be found.

-Spartan

[Bruticus the Steadfast]

I think its a very good project. But I really dont know how I can help you haha.

[andriyko]

Originally posted by Bruticus the Steadfast@Apr 4 2005, 01:00 AM
45 views and no replies................EB is kidnapping the modelers or what? Or this idea is jut bad? I'll give it a few days and i'll close it if no one cares.

Umm, what exactly do you want: make legs shorter, necks longer, etc? I can see what could be done but I need more organized information. Also think of compromises (many differences are negligible given RTW LOD), 2-3 types is ok, maybe 4.

Example:
Warhorse -- tall, muscular, short neck
Arab horse -- tall, long neck, skinny
Pony -- short, muscular, short neck

A comparative picture (from Biology textbook perhaps) would be very nice too.

P.S. PM me if interested, I don't often check this subforum

[SigniferOne]

Well I've done my part, and made horse animations really impact the ground, rather than glide above it.

[HorseArcher]

Originally posted by andriyko@Apr 4 2005, 03:01 AM
Umm, what exactly do you want: make legs shorter, necks longer, etc? I can see what could be done but I need more organized information. Also think of compromises (many differences are negligible given RTW LOD), 2-3 types is ok, maybe 4.

Example:
Warhorse -- tall, muscular, short neck
Arab horse -- tall, long neck, skinny
Pony -- short, muscular, short neck

A comparative picture (from Biology textbook perhaps) would be very nice too.

P.S. PM me if interested, I don't often check this subforum

exactly what i was looking for. Different looking horses for different factions. I'm tired seeing the same horses all over, a little variety doesn't hurt. So if someone would make some modified horses (.cas files) and send me some textures, i can try to recolor them. Unless someone else also volunteers doing this. There are literally millions of webpages of horse colors, figure, posture etc.

[andriyko]

Originally posted by horsearcher@Apr 4 2005, 05:40 PM
exactly what i was looking for. Different looking horses for different factions. I'm tired seeing the same horses all over, a little variety doesn't hurt. So if someone would make some modified horses (.cas files) and send me some textures, i can try to recolor them. Unless someone else also volunteers doing this. There are literally millions of webpages of horse colors, figure, posture etc.

Well, that's what I propose. You do the research and organize the information and I will see what can be done about models once you have all horses types sorted out.

[KDAWG650]

I don't know what good this mod would do, but my father always told me- never look a gift horse in the mouth.

[HorseArcher]

First, thanks for the humor/spam kdawg,
and second, i should make up a list of what faction what horses should have and possibly a picture for each for reference.

I would brake up the current map into some large areas (a few factions together) depending on location (north, east, mediterranian, african, steppe, possibly some unique island horse if exists) and each area's factions would have that type of horse.

Then within each faction, the 4 types: light , medium, heavy, general , possibly some coloring difference of each.


another thing"
The coolest thing would be if we would be able to mod the general's horse to be completely specific to that one unit (not possible) , since generals always chose or received the best looking, most expensive horse , not just for war, but ceremony etc. Too bad it's not possible to see his bodyguards on brown horses while the general would have the only white horse in his cavalry. (see my sig) Easier to identify on the battlefield this way also.

[WEIRDSHADY]

Im already tweaking a couple of horses myself for different projects, ill be interested to see what exactly you have in mind. Perhaps I may be able to help some.

[Tsarevna]

I have a few books on ancient italy...i'l scan some of the pics of the romans riding their horses.

Also, i think you should add saddles/harness (and lack of them) to the project.
Hopefully, we could develope a "stock" greek saddle, for example, and then re-colorize it for each different greek faction.

The numidians would not have ridden on any sort of saddle or blanket, but gone bareback with just a sisal rope tied around the horse's neck, to lead him around when not mounted. No bridle either for the numidians.

The numidians had some really scrawny, ragged tough little ponies that ate all sorts of plants that would kill european bred horses, and that sort of low quality food would make their coats a bit scruffy.

I'm noticing a few things...

-Greeks and romans liked to shave the manes of their horses, so a stiff 1 1/2 " mane would stand on the neck, but they seemed to leave the "forehead-hair" long so it would drape down the head.

-Two vocab words: Destrier= warhorse, heavy. Garon=warhorse, light, like a scout or light cavalry horse

Standbye for pictures...

[Sheep]

Originally posted by horsearcher@Apr 3 2005, 07:34 AM
There are significant visual difference between an arab horse or a european northern horse types and italian "stallions".

I found a picture...



Hope it helps!

[Tsarevna]

Ok, i think it would be good to start with a greek horse, since there are many examples of them in 3d (sculptures) and in color (mosaic, pottery, wall paintings.)

Let's make:
1) A greek garon
2) A greek destrier
3) A greek general's horse

I have created a galleryto help with the project. Some of these pictures are scans from my history books. Here are my observations:

-Greek horse colors: they seem to favor a bold red (with white mane), and black (with black or red mane).
(I've never seen a red horse with a white mane, or black one with a white mane, for that matter, but they could just have dyed them for looks, much like with horsehair plumes on helmets. And when i say red, i mean a brownish red, like old blood, not fresh.)

-Mane: Mane is clipped short in 99% of the illustrations i've seen. It starts between the ears about 1 inch tall, then at the back of the head it balloons out to about 1 1/2 inches tall, then graduates back down to 1 inch down the neck towards the back. It makes a really pretty curve.

-Head: Large round cheeks, square nose and large nostrils.

-Belly: In garons, there is a distinct slope from the chest up to the hips. I don't know the degree of the angle, but there is one. :happy
In the chariot horses, the chest is deep and barrel-like, and no angle is seen.

-Saddle: not alot of evidence of saddles here, but i do see a lion skin stretched over one horse at the parthenon, a good "blanket" for a general.

-Shoulder: Long shoulder blades make the chest stick out past the legs, more so in garons. This is seen also in the (now) extinct Spanish Barb breed.

[andriyko]

Originally posted by horsearcher@Apr 4 2005, 11:18 PM
Then within each faction, the 4 types: light , medium, heavy, general , possibly some coloring difference of each.

Wait, not so fast. Each horse will cost a unit slot. That might not be significant for vanilla, but some mods are limited in this regard.
4 (e.g., pony/domestic/light/warhorse) or so models should be enough, on the other hand, for every model, you can have as many skins as you wish.

[Tsarevna]

Ok, but the greek horse model i propose will work for more than just the greeks. The romans seem to have shaved the mane in the same way as the greeks, but a different skin would be needed for the roman style harness. So, that's 8 factions that the two greek horse models would cover. (By 2 greek horse models, i mean the garon and destrier. This covers the Brutii, Scipii, Julii, Senate, Greek Cities, Macedon, Seleucid, and Thrace.)
The generals don't need a new model , just a new skin if it is desired. Like, the lionskin on the horse for bodyguard units as i suggested. Alexander is depicted many times as having a leapard skin as his "saddle," most famously i think, in the pompeii mosaic of him fighting darius.

[The White Knight]

I could help, if somebody lent me 800 € to get the programs needed to mod... :erm

[Swordfish]

Originally posted by The_White_Knight@Apr 6 2005, 04:37 AM
I could help, if somebody lent me 800 € to get the programs needed to mod... :erm

hehe ever heard of bit torrent?

[andriyko]

Originally posted by Swordfish@Apr 6 2005, 07:46 AM
hehe ever heard of bit torrent?

no need, trial lasts for 30 days -- more than enough to complete this project

[andriyko]

Originally posted by Tsarevna@Apr 6 2005, 03:00 AM
Ok, but the greek horse model i propose will work for more than just the greeks.

. . .

Hmm, I would think more than one horse could be applied per faction (e.g., for Rome: warhorse for legionary cavalry, light or domestic for equites and pony for cavalry auxilia).

Note: the types are not not in any way final, of course