Rhodes is a death trap

[Balbor]

I've noticed in many games, both vanilla RTW and M2TW and mods, that the Island of Rhodes can become a deathtrap for AI factions which control it. It happened to Koinon Hellenon, they made it there captical, build up 3 full stack armies there but never build a boot to transport them off, they soon went bankrupt and despite having a strong presents in mainland Greece. They were unable to finish of the Macedonians, who they, along with Epirus reduce them to only 2 cities at one point.

My point is, with M2TWs land bridges it might be an idea to have one going from Rhodes to main land Asia minor. If it's possible it might be possible to make it one way by having it right next to the city so enemy troops will not be able to simple cross over onto the island. But i don't know about the mechanics of that, unit may not be able to move from inside a settlement and directly onto a land bridge.

[lenin96]

But then the KH will probaly steamroll Anatolia, and M2TW's AI is moddable.

[John-117]

if you startout everyone with a few ships then they'll attack it eventually.

you oculd just keep like a full stack in a fort next to it, and use the free upkeep to guard the city.

[Balbor]

Ops, this should be in EB 2 forum.

This doesn't just happen in EB, i've seen it happen in Stainless Steel as well. Its not a problem is the owning faction is able to grow large early on, but with Koinon Hellenon starting position bring them into early conflict with Epirus, Macedonia, and possible the Seleucid Empire and Ptolemy, right from the off, If they are ever forced into a situation there they made Rhodes there capital, they can build up a massive army there but have the means to use them, before long they are down to there last settlement and are bankrupt.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Rhodos was a naval power and was protected from invasion and conquest by the sea and defense of a strong navy. To allow an army to simply walk to Rhodos and avoid the naval part of conquest doesn't quite seem to fit.

Of course gameplay considerations are always taken into account. Although, in EB1 it doesn't seem all that common for KH to build huge armies in Rhodos and leave them there. In most campaigns they seem to actually win in Hellas.

Hopefully naval invasions won't be a let down in M2TW.

[Balbor]

Rhodos was a naval power and was protected from invasion and conquest by the sea and defense of a strong navy. To allow an army to simply walk to Rhodos and avoid the naval part of conquest doesn't quite seem to fit.

Agreed, which is why I was wondering if it possible to have the first land square on Rhodos which an army moving to Rhodo can occupy is the Settlement. I'm predicting the enemy army will be sent right back again as they won't be able to siege (as they can't lay siege to a settlement while standing on a water tile).

The key elements are 1) It needs to stop other factions army's (even allied armies with military access) from moving to Rhodos from Asia minor. 2) allow units station on Rhodos to move off the Island (this may mean they will need to be able to move from inside the settlement onto a land bridge water tile.

[Antigenes]

Agreed, which is why I was wondering if it possible to have the first land square on Rhodos which an army moving to Rhodo can occupy is the Settlement. I'm predicting the enemy army will be sent right back again as they won't be able to siege (as they can't lay siege to a settlement while standing on a water tile).

The key elements are 1) It needs to stop other factions army's (even allied armies with military access) from moving to Rhodos from Asia minor. 2) allow units station on Rhodos to move off the Island (this may mean they will need to be able to move from inside the settlement onto a land bridge water tile.

Would it even be possible to besiege Rhodos then? The city needs to be possible to capture, too.

[Balbor]

Would it even be possible to besiege Rhodos then? The city needs to be possible to capture, too.

yes the same way you currently besiege Rhodes, by sailing there and landing on the Island. However, if the a faction gets trapped there because it has bankrupted itself building large armies and no boats there could be a situation where there armies full up all the land tiles and it become impossible to land army there.

[eggthief]

They aren't, with modified AI's they are quite usual.

[eddy_purpus]

They aren't, with modified AI's they are quite usual.

link to mod ?
or in vanilla m2 ?

[delra]

AI in M2TW can be pre-programmed to make naval invasions in certain areas. For example Scotland likes to land near Antwerp in Stainless Steel and Norway likes to hit York.

About Rhodos, I like the system from Europa Universalis 3: In Nomine. They have a land bridge between Rhodos and Anatolia so armies can freely cross (it's not that far really, I've done the cruise between Turkey and Rhodos a bunch of times) UNLESS there's a fleet in the area which has a power to block that crossing.

The problem here is that EU3 AI is smart enough to block an army from crossing to Rhodos if they have enough fleet. In M2TW sadly AI isn't smart enough for that.

That's why, summarising, I think it will be much more fair for the gameplay if there's no strait at all - since it would mean an unfair advantage to the human player who knows how to use it and unfair disadvantage to the AI who wouldn't know how to defend it and thus be weakened seriously.

[mikil100]

I've seen KH send its armies from Rhodes to Anatolia many times, and this is one regular rtw.exe..

[paokmam]

Why only a deathtrap and not a good place to defend when outnumbered?

[Gaias]

Most of the time when I was playing EB1, KH would only send the stacks build up in Rhodes to Asia Minor when they started building ships. Though this tends to happen 80 to 100 turns into a campaign. I would argue that it is a good thing as it allows the faction to hang on for a bit longer and would cause trouble for you later when you took it. How it works in EB2 for Medieval II Total War is an entirely different matter of course.

[Leonnidas]

In DLV we have many sea invasions by the IA so I think this wont be a prob in EB II

[Hippolord]

Well i guess this whole situations outcome as usuall is dependent upon the abilities of the modders.

Who we must fully trust!