[Faction Discussion] Ghurid Sultanate

[Augustus Lucifer]

Ghurid Sultanate

This thread can be used for non-team members to discuss the Ghurid Sultanate faction. Research, ideas, and imagery for the team to use in our development of the faction are appreciated. This post will contain more information about this faction and their inclusion within the mod in the future.

Note: Please do not include Osprey images in this thread, as it is against the policy of TWC to allow copyrighted material to be posted, especially Osprey Publications.

Regards,
AUH Team

[Yelü Dashi]

To avoid duplication (and save TWC's server) I would suggest reviewing BC's thread on the Ghurids, lots of useful source material and ideas.

[Ahiga]

It bears mentioning I think we may have been mistaken historically on some of the Ghorids, having come into access with more historical records after we designed them. The major flaw is that they have no spearmen in our mod, which is completely false to what they were in real life - They even made use of a quasi-pavise which was basically a straw/cotton stuffed wooden frame with possibly wheels. If I can get the name again I'll pass it along.

The depiction of various sword and axe wielding afghan hillmen and ghazi is accurate for you guys unless you want to avoid it for creative reasoning. Then you'd have the typical post-Seljuk presence of horse archer tribesmen and well armored heavy cavalry.

I know that Miraj and I found resources later that mentioned the Ghorid's being infantry heavy, but I also know they relied a lot on horse archery to fight the Rajputs. So really what was posted in the BC thread with the fix of an absence of spears would work.

[Augustus Lucifer]

It bears mentioning I think we may have been mistaken historically on some of the Ghorids, having come into access with more historical records after we designed them. The major flaw is that they have no spearmen in our mod, which is completely false to what they were in real life - They even made use of a quasi-pavise which was basically a straw/cotton stuffed wooden frame with possibly wheels. If I can get the name again I'll pass it along.

The depiction of various sword and axe wielding afghan hillmen and ghazi is accurate for you guys unless you want to avoid it for creative reasoning. Then you'd have the typical post-Seljuk presence of horse archer tribesmen and well armored heavy cavalry.

I know that Miraj and I found resources later that mentioned the Ghorid's being infantry heavy, but I also know they relied a lot on horse archery to fight the Rajputs. So really what was posted in the BC thread with the fix of an absence of spears would work.

Indeed. We will also need to incorporate Indian units, because by the time they emerge in our mod they will have formed the Delhi Sultanate or achieved similar more ahistorical conquests so as to push east, and would thus have Indian troops with them.

[Erwin Rommel]

The ultimate scenario. My glorious Minamoto Sashimon fluttering in the hot desert ghorid deserts! Oh I can imagine the awesomeness of this one

[Augustus Lucifer]

The ultimate scenario. My glorious Minamoto Sashimon fluttering in the hot desert ghorid deserts! Oh I can imagine the awesomeness of this one

Assuming we have Sashimono's.

They wouldn't have been in widespread use for a while still. It will ultimately be an aesthetic decision though probably, and I could see them being attached to a secondary "standard bearer"-like captain unit. But that's enough about Sashimono's in the Ghurid thread.

[Shadowcry]

Shouldn't the Ghorids at thsi time be actually the Dehli Sultanate if I am not mistaken?

[Augustus Lucifer]

Shouldn't the Ghorids at thsi time be actually the Dehli Sultanate if I am not mistaken?

It's an almost entirely fictional scenario so it won't be entirely relevant what they're called or what the back story will be. They might be called that in the display if we think it's the best designation, but they'll remain 'ghurids' in the code.

[Shadowcry]

Ohkay so they will be practically like a Bengali faction in the East Asian scenario right?

[Augustus Lucifer]

Ohkay so they will be practically like a Bengali faction in the East Asian scenario right?

Depends on what you mean by Bengali. They won't be Hindu or have Indian architecture or any of that, it will be Middle Eastern. They will incorporate Sena-Pala Bengali units naturally as a consequence of the scenario and their location. They will also appear, as an emergent faction, near the Bengal region on our map, which is not wholly represented as our map cuts off about where the Indian penninsula meets the Indochinese Penninsula and starts back south.

[James the Red]

Maybe the Ghurid invasion can be a chance occurance. Like say, every new campaign has a 50-50% percent chance that they appear or something like that.

[bengalg3]

Why are the Delhi Sultanates here? Instead put the Indo-Assamese ''kamarupa''...From the map preview Delhi S didnt get that far east. But this just a suggestion. It wouldnt matter either way.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Why are the Delhi Sultanates here? Instead put the Indo-Assamese ''kamarupa''...From the map preview Delhi S didnt get that far east. But this just a suggestion. It wouldnt matter either way.

It's still not entirely unlikely for the Ghurids to be removed from the faction list before all is said and done. They have always been our 15th faction out of 15 by a fairly significant margin due to the historical realities. If we removed them it would be to trim down rather than to replace though, in all likelihood.

[bengalg3]

It's due to the historical realities.

In Historical reality there wouldn't be a horde coming out of east India to Asia in general. I would rather see a smaller factions like the Sena, or Assamese faction i named...But its fine.

[Ravenclaw2099]

Hey all, jsut found out about this mod from the Third Age forums, and I like the concept this mod is taking on. I've noticed there's some of debate on what exactly should be represented for an Indian faction (or a small one, should there be one in the end) and I figured I throw my two cents in.

maybe the Eastern Ganga Dynasty? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Ganga_dynasty
or Sena Dynasties maybe?? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sena_Dynasty

Of course, like mentioned in the FAQ India itself woulde require a mod on its own due to all the factions. But they could also fit here somewhat since their culture did have an influence on Southeast Asia, so there presence was felt in a few ways.

[bengalg3]

I just realized something, why is there a horde coming out of India when India and east and south east asia was divided by the ''Arakan Yoma''..This mountain ranges was between 5000-7000 feet high and completely covered in dense jungles.Even the 'Burma road' built by the British to link China and India had the highest military construction casualty rate in history, due to the rough terrain and prevailing deseases. Clearly, this path was unsurmountable in the past.

And plus at these time Ghurids didn't control eastern India.. Mongols are a better horde...

[Ravenclaw2099]

I just realized something, why is there a horde coming out of India..

You do have a point here bengal. The concept itself seems out of place, as India wasn't really known for having rulers go on major conquests outside of India itself. Granted the point of a Total War game is to rewrite history and thats fine, but the "horde" concept kinda twists it a wee bit much. Also it's been well documented that most, if not all, of the interaction between Southeast Asia and India was through trade, religion and other peaceful means. (again you could change this depending on how u play )

[VINC.XXIII]

"horde system" should be reserved to altaics or nomadics. Ghurids was indigenous, iranians. Sultanat of Delhi was like the Mamelouk dynasty, the first Sultan was gholam of Muhamad Ghuri.
But if there are a filiation between M.Ghuri and Qutb ud-Din Aibak, the power wasn't holded by the same families. Iranian nobles/turkic gholams opposition, ever.

[Dr. Croccer]

Excuse my ignorance, but the Ghorids are in? I was under the impression that AUH wouldn't expand into India.

[Yelü Dashi]

Doubtful now - they're right at the very bottom of the list for development, we've made some significant changes to the map but will explain all at some point in the future.