[Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

[vietanh797]

It is not a battle, you can call it a small ambush. It will be never a battle. How many men could you kill in that kind of ambush, smart ass?

You can't call them "peasant" because they have trained to ambush, attack suddenly in night blah blah. You have to call them something else like ninja or special night attackers. A peasant would have no special training and they never have combat skills. They just be an easy target for their enemy, got it?

hey smart ass do you know how ambush effect morale?
do you know that I said we have often use Defend,ambush and counter-attack?
do you know how many time we repeled stupid invation force from northen faction?
and the last thing is those tactic still useable agaist American and France in Vietnam war from 1945-1975
so smart ass you better shut up and listen to who have historical knowledge about his own country than say about thing you dunno
"kid, they spend the first 3 years in their life to teach them stand and talk and the next 12 years to tell them sit down and shut up"
in the other way if you have to play in war so often you will have the skill to play with enemy
hidding like a tiger wait for his prey

Oh, everything is much simpler. Just set the Dai Viet faction to something like Maya or a tribute in America. Dai Viet was nothing in the period of time. They are too weak and too small. Mongol just bring 1500 elite troops and 10000 colonist to the land and a whole Dai Viet army had been defeated. Some smart ass said that Mongol brings 100000 troops to fight against Dai Viet. It is ridiculous because the size of mongol army is approximately 138000 warriors at that time. So stop bringing stupid things to the forum, alright?



Please focus on other factions like Korea and China.

ok if you don't think we strong enough just shut up and get out of here

p/s: sorry everyone I really angry with visser300
and everyone back to our 4rum and please check vulcan300 I think it may be him

[visser300]

i don't know who you are visser300. but i know how rude and impolite you are. stop making sino centric or Goryeo centric. at that time the chinese from north and south even the Tibetian, and Dali fall to the army of Mongol, become one of their land. Goryeo also can win in same style with vietnam with the static ambush and one of their important General in this time was a vietnamese prince named Ly Long Tuong (이용상/,Ri Ryeong Sang),Hwasan Sanggun , and he become the ancestor of Lee Clan in Korea now.

And what you said make me know that you are very lack of history knowledge. you must to remember not only one time Mongol lost the battle in Daiviet, it's is 3 times. that thing is no faction here can do except us. especially the last time in 1288 Khulibai has used the maximum army for invading one small country with carefully preparation and strength but still lost . that no thing Southern Song, and Goryeo can do.

so before saying something you must to think and has a good knowledge if not the other will think you are st*p*d. i think you're also an east asian so you must know one proverb: "checking carefully before said some words"

Hey, there is only one battle which Dai Viet won the Chinese-Mongol army was the Bach Dang battle. Dai Viet never ever ever win any battles on land. At the fist time, Mongol bring 1500 elite troops with 10000 chinese to Dai Viet and these cowards retreat to mountains and forest and leave the capital and villages for Mongol army. Some dumb-ass here called that is a strategic plan, I think that it is the strategy for cows moahahaha. All of Vietnamese guys here have to check how western knights or Samurai or Mamluk fight against the Mongol army .

The next time, you have to name them at "Chinese-Mongol army". They were not mongol anymore so don't think that Dai Viet won the Mongol, dumb ass.

Viet Nam is a poor country, they lose any battles in the world but people there think that they won all of them moahahahaha . Chiniese take over your country for 1000 years, all of you became chinese, you lost your culture and language. Every year, Kings of Dai Viet must go to China to tribute gold and women for peace. What kind of that independent . American and French took your country for 100 years and after all your country is the poorest country all over the world , what kind of victory like that .

Dai Viet faction should not be taken much time from you, modder. You should spend your time on other valuable factions like Korea, Ying, India, Thailand blah blah .

[warumxo]

visser300 is such a loser.
wheres he from anyway

[gamevn]

Hey, there is only one battle which Dai Viet won the Chinese-Mongol army was the Bach Dang battle. Dai Viet never ever ever win any battles on land. At the fist time, Mongol bring 1500 elite troops with 10000 chinese to Dai Viet and these cowards retreat to mountains and forest and leave the capital and villages for Mongol army. Some dumb-ass here called that is a strategic plan, I think that it is the strategy for cows moahahaha. All of Vietnamese guys here have to check how western knights or Samurai or Mamluk fight against the Mongol army .

The next time, you have to name them at "Chinese-Mongol army". They were not mongol anymore so don't think that Dai Viet won the Mongol, dumb ass.

Viet Nam is a poor country, they lose any battles in the world but people there think that they won all of them moahahahaha . Chiniese take over your country for 1000 years, all of you became chinese, you lost your culture and language. Every year, Kings of Dai Viet must go to China to tribute gold and women for peace. What kind of that independent . American and French took your country for 100 years and after all your country is the poorest country all over the world , what kind of victory like that .

So why you don't mention about the Chinese has been defeated by the Mongol, the Manju, the Japanese... About the Chinese women became sex slave for the Japanese (I'm really sorry about that, but because he start it first). About the Korean must tribute to. Why VietNam now is not a part of China, of France, of USA?

And you think we lost our culture and language, you are wrong. Even after 100 years, or 1000 years, we still speak Vietnamese, not Chinese or French. And i must mention that the Cantonese originated in the same source with Vietnamese. Tell me, is it the same with Mandarin? We have our own culture, and it different other country, even Chinese, or Korean...

Your words and your manner are dishonouring yourself and own country. I think everyone here can see that and understand, so I won't waste any more words with a kid like you.

[warumxo]

However, guys this isnt really the place for this sort of thing

[vietanh797]

Hey, there is only one battle which Dai Viet won the Chinese-Mongol army was the Bach Dang battle. Dai Viet never ever ever win any battles on land. At the fist time, Mongol bring 1500 elite troops with 10000 chinese to Dai Viet and these cowards retreat to mountains and forest and leave the capital and villages for Mongol army. Some dumb-ass here called that is a strategic plan, I think that it is the strategy for cows moahahaha. All of Vietnamese guys here have to check how western knights or Samurai or Mamluk fight against the Mongol army .

The next time, you have to name them at "Chinese-Mongol army". They were not mongol anymore so don't think that Dai Viet won the Mongol, dumb ass.

Viet Nam is a poor country, they lose any battles in the world but people there think that they won all of them moahahahaha . Chiniese take over your country for 1000 years, all of you became chinese, you lost your culture and language. Every year, Kings of Dai Viet must go to China to tribute gold and women for peace. What kind of that independent . American and French took your country for 100 years and after all your country is the poorest country all over the world , what kind of victory like that .

Dai Viet faction should not be taken much time from you, modder. You should spend your time on other valuable factions like Korea, Ying, India, Thailand blah blah .

small question
why we tribute for peace but china still attack us?
and why most of China attack come to a retreat ?
And if I not wrong we take away "the spear of the great Wolf mother " which is a symbol The Khan always give to a general who is ordered to conquer a nation
ah correct me if I am wrong, we also made a Chinese Prince hide in a big copper ball to keep him safe from our arrow and bolt if it isn't because all other generals beg the China king, he could have his head cut down

p/s:
@all: that is enough now I will pm admin or Lucifer to kick him away

[Kinay]

Vietanh797, ignore visser300. You told me not to go political I ask you the same.

If you look at the terrain and climate it makes sense the Dai Viet used these kind of tactics.
Talking of unconventional warfare, Mongols were experts of it, especially their use of terror.

Ayway, that's not the point.

[seaboy]

yeah . i think we don't need to argue. all thing we do is base from the historic script from many source. so now we Just Ignore him . now all thing we do is good and enough evidence , so just focus for our goal.

[vietanh797]

ok I got it

quéstion: is ignore list avaiable in thís 4rum?

[gamevn]

If you look at the terrain and climate it makes sense the Dai Viet used these kind of tactics.
Talking of unconventional warfare, Mongols were experts of it, especially their use of terror.

Yea, think about thousands horses charging to you, the sound of their hooves, their warcry... Must be a seasoned and brave soldier to not run away.

By the way, i have just edit some little things in the list.
1- Remove the Royal calvary from Military Academy, now the only "Royal calvary" is bodyguard.
2- Changed weapon of Prince's calvary. In some source said that they use bow and sword, not spear.
3- Add poison bolt for Peasant crossbowmen. They are hunters, join to army, so they usually use poison bolts to hunt.

Some background:

- Strengths: Crossbowmen and archers, navy
- Weaknesses: Calvary (except elephants)

Agree with gamevn, we're well-educated adults, so let's try to act like so (unless you aren't).
I just want to put in some of my ideas. Let's make war buffalo units small scaled elephant units (modify the model and the skin, of course), give it some mass and use it as shock troop that make gaps in the enemy's line for other units to take advantage of.

A large part of Dai Viet's army is a semi-standing one with garrisoning soldiers taking turn doing farm works. So, how about having a mechanism (a building favourably) to call up provicial garrisons reserves in exchanged for a small price. Repeat by destroying the building and rebuild it.

Also, Dai Viet's monarchs at the time used to hold national examinations to select good general/ governors. What do you guys think of making certain buildings in the capital city that once build will spawn two generals (one as general and one as governor) to simulate the hoding national exam process. Repeat by destroying the building.

I see that player may exploit the ability to spawn armies and generals, so perhaps you guys can put some scripts that restrict the amount of time between repeated attempts.

Hope I make sense

Hektor

Thank you for your ideas. About the buffaloes, that what we want to do.

About other, we'll think about them. If they could fit for the game, we would add them to building list

[Augustus Lucifer]

These forums are for civil discussion about the factions which will be represented in the mod. This means that talk about anything surrounding the Vietnam War, Vietcong, or any other subjects that can't be expected to have any bearing on a country in our timeframe will be removed. It's fine if you have evidence that certain things persisted into the modern age and present it as a historical dissertation, but that is all. The same goes for other factions. If you wish to talk about political issues I'd suggest you take it to the Political Mudpit.

Also, every faction in our mod will have a very similar set of goals we wish to achieve, so the concept of diverting resources elsewhere is only relevant in the short term(ie. we started with factions who had the most reference information so our non-English audience can build up our resources in the meanwhile). As such, both nation bashing to diminish the importance of a faction and nationalist dickwaving to play up its importance will not be acceptable as a means of civil discourse.

Any and all posts which are off-topic in this regard will be edited to remove the infringing content or deleted. If you have a question about a deleted post you can PM me. If it is seen that a user cannot participate in civil discussion they will be temporarily banned from the AUH forums.

This has been a public service announcement. If this does not apply to you, don't worry about it. We thank everyone for the help they are providing here and elsewhere.

Regards,
AUH Team

[Yelü Dashi]

. All of Vietnamese guys here have to check how western knights or Samurai or Mamluk fight against the Mongol army .

The next time, you have to name them at "Chinese-Mongol army". They were not mongol anymore so don't think that Dai Viet won the Mongol, dumb ass.

Viet Nam is a poor country, they lose any battles in the world but people there think that they won all of them moahahahaha . Chiniese take over your country for 1000 years, all of you became chinese, you lost your culture and language. Every year, Kings of Dai Viet must go to China to tribute gold and women for peace. What kind of that independent . American and French took your country for 100 years and after all your country is the poorest country all over the world , what kind of victory like that .

Dai Viet faction should not be taken much time from you, modder. You should spend your time on other valuable factions like Korea, Ying, India, Thailand blah blah .

Dude, you're being seriously offensive, ignorant and bordeline rascist here ...and I am not even sure why Also if you actually read a bit of history you'd realise most East Asia factions had to pay tribute and send princesses to the Chinese and other powers during this period. For example, Goryeo paid tribute to the Jurchens. And hell, the Chinese even to paid tribute to Liao and then the Jin - so by your standards they weren't independent Also, no faction is judged by its 'valuableness' in this mod, we want to include states that were recognised as sovereign powers during our period...Dai Viet was one of them whereas "Thailand" (Sukhothai) wasn't even formed until 1238.

Anyway if you're going to keep it up we'll will simply delete your posts and report you to the TW moderators as Lucifer has said. Also just to clarify the situation with our Vietnamese friends: Lucifer and I are the mod leaders for All Under Heaven and we do appreciate your research into the Dai Viet. It will certainly help us in bringing them to life. However, nothing has been officially decided and if any of you want to join the mod team you are more than welcome to PM Lucifer or me and we can give access to the developer's forums. You could then continue your discussions 'in private'. It might avoid spammers like visser300.

Keep it civil,
Thanks.

[vietanh797]

Is that possible to make a garrison script and recruit general script in this mod?
because I have those information

A large part of Dai Viet's army is a semi-standing one with garrisoning soldiers taking turn doing farm works.

and

Dai Viet's monarchs at the time used to hold national examinations to select good general/ governors.

If it is ok we need garrison script for Northern city and castle(or city only I am't sure about that)cause garrison script slow game down very much
And recruit general script active each 4 years

[warumxo]

Hi all,

I not sure if this has been answered elsewhere but, whats the Dai Viet unit armor and weapons look like?

Would the team mod the Dai Viet unit models so that they look at bit smaller than the model of some other factions? Or would all the units be of equal size (not the number of unit but the actual height and width of the model)?

[Shadowcry]

Will Sukhothai be an emerging faction?

[gamevn]

Hi all,

I not sure if this has been answered elsewhere but, whats the Dai Viet unit armor and weapons look like?

Would the team mod the Dai Viet unit models so that they look at bit smaller than the model of some other factions? Or would all the units be of equal size (not the number of unit but the actual height and width of the model)?

I think in that age, some Eastern country usually used the same kind of weapons and armour. Not as like as two peas, but nearly.

Our peasant, militia and missile use Machete, upgrade to Falchion


Swordmen, of course use swords. But not the slim swords like in some kungfu movie ;. Maybe it'll look like this, or like this

Dagger-axe
Dagger-axe upgrade to Halberd only add a spearhead.

Sharpen bamboo: actually, it's not "bamboo", it's in the same subfamilia with bamboo. I don't know how to call it in English, but it's scientific name is Thyrsostachys siamensis. Smaller than bamboo, but solid, and very hard.

Crossbow or this

Shields were made by bamboo, covered by buffalo-hide. And higher: wooden shield and metal shield, with some kind of design on them.

Armour: buffalo-hide armour, rattan armour, bamboo armour, metal armour.

Well, those are basics. About design... well, i must say that i'm not an artist

About the size, i think it's the same for all.

PS: about the dagger-axe, the right way to fit the blade into the handle is the second way (4 last pics)

[warumxo]

[visser300]

These forums are for civil discussion about the factions which will be represented in the mod. This means that talk about anything surrounding the Vietnam War, Vietcong, or any other subjects that can't be expected to have any bearing on a country in our timeframe will be removed. It's fine if you have evidence that certain things persisted into the modern age and present it as a historical dissertation, but that is all. The same goes for other factions. If you wish to talk about political issues I'd suggest you take it to the Political Mudpit.

Also, every faction in our mod will have a very similar set of goals we wish to achieve, so the concept of diverting resources elsewhere is only relevant in the short term(ie. we started with factions who had the most reference information so our non-English audience can build up our resources in the meanwhile). As such, both nation bashing to diminish the importance of a faction and nationalist dickwaving to play up its importance will not be acceptable as a means of civil discourse.

Any and all posts which are off-topic in this regard will be edited to remove the infringing content or deleted. If you have a question about a deleted post you can PM me. If it is seen that a user cannot participate in civil discussion they will be temporarily banned from the AUH forums.

This has been a public service announcement. If this does not apply to you, don't worry about it. We thank everyone for the help they are providing here and elsewhere.

Regards,
AUH Team

Hi AUH Team,

Sorry about that. I just want to prove that their tactics and battles are not epic and glorious as they imagine. Someone must tell them what they are and where they should stand for.

I leave the topic for you guys.

Regards

[vietanh797]

Hi AUH Team,

Sorry about that. I just want to prove that their tactics and battles are not epic and glorious as they imagine. Someone must tell them what they are and where they should stand for.

I leave the topic for you guys.

Regards

thank you for let us know what we already know
may god be with you

[SaberHRE]

Hi AUH Team,

Sorry about that. I just want to prove that their tactics and battles are not epic and glorious as they imagine. Someone must tell them what they are and where they should stand for.

I leave the topic for you guys.

Regards

I'm surprised nobody banned you. Your comments are immature and idiotic. How dare you offend a people you clearly dont know anything about.

Back on topic, I hope you guys represent the Dai-Viet armies as accurately as possible. During my research about medieval Southeast Asia, I have not managed to encounter any good books in english, about the Dai Viet army. I did however remember reading a fairly professionally looking essay on Dai Viet's use of gunpowder and early forms of guns. The essay argued that the use of primitive guns was essential Dai Viet's conquest of Champa kingdom. However I didn't find any sources to support this essay.