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Thread: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

  1. #1
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Dai Viet


    This thread can be used for non-team members to discuss the Dai Viet faction. Research, ideas, and imagery for the team to use in our development of the faction are appreciated. This post will contain more information about this faction and their inclusion within the mod in the future.

    Note: Please do not include Osprey images in this thread, as it is against the policy of TWC to allow copyrighted material to be posted, especially Osprey Publications.

    Regards,
    AUH Team

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Hi, I'm a Vietnamese. Feel free to ask me anything you want ^^
    First thing, Dai Viet means the great Viet (Great Yue) & Vietnam: Southern Viet (Southern Yue)

    "During this period, Dai Viet was ruled by the Tran dynasty. Đại Việt repelled three invasions in 1257 AD, 1284 AD, and 1288 AD by the Mongols under Kublai Khan, who had occupied China and founded the Yuan dynasty. The key to Đại Việt's successes was to avoid the Mongols' strength in open field battles and city sieges - the Trần court abandoned the capital and the cities. The Mongols were then countered decisively at their weak points, which were battles in swampy areas such as Chương Dương, Hàm Tử, Vạn Kiếp and on rivers such as Vân Đồn and Bạch Đằng.During the Trần Dynasty, Đại Việt repelled three invasions in 1257 AD, 1284 AD, and 1288 AD by the Mongols under Kublai Khan, who had occupied China and founded the Yuan dynasty. The key to Đại Việt's successes was to avoid the Mongols' strength in open field battles and city sieges - the Trần court abandoned the capital and the cities. The Mongols were then countered decisively at their weak points, which were battles in swampy areas such as Chương Dương, Hàm Tử, Vạn Kiếp and on rivers such as Vân Đồn and Bạch Đằng."

    Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam

    Below are some useful sources:

    Weapons: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/lof...hp/t18348.html

    Artifacts: http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/s...um=04SUN220106


    Historical texts:
    wps03_011.pdf (Most important)



    85.pdf

    Vietnam.doc

    Cheers!
    Last edited by devilboy412; January 15, 2009 at 11:55 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    What year is that map based on?

    Southeast Asia had very little open fields, if at all, and it's very hot and humid. I remember reading about Mongols dying of diseases in Southern China trying to conquer the Song dynasty. So I think something to look into is advantages for factions in these environments, and how heavily armored armies would be at a disadvantage fighting in southeast asia and southern china.

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    It's an 18 century map but I think it might help. The mongol army that invaded DaiViet & Champa was mostly conscripted men from Yunnan, Guandong & Guanxi provinces who were used to the climate, except for the mongol cavaliers. Besides, the southern land like the Red Delta is full of rivers and lakes. That's why the calvary couldnt operate at full strength.
    Last edited by devilboy412; January 16, 2009 at 09:59 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    I knew a very famous Vietnamese General, his name is Chen xing dao (陈兴道)
    Who Dares Win

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Start game: 1171:
    Faction Leader: Ly Anh Tong (age: 36, he died 4 years later in 1175 at 40) : High authority, medium command, high piety, good management skills/chivalry.


    Faction Heir : To Hien Thanh (age: unknown, but older than FL, reagent for the 2 years old prince, die 4 years later): high command, medium authority, very good management/chivalry; upright+loyal.


    The Prince: Ly Cao Tong weak command, low authority, some dread, extravagant+gambling+lax

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by jalen911 View Post
    I knew a very famous Vietnamese General, his name is Chen xing dao (陈兴道)
    He (Chen xing dao or in vietnamese Tran Hung Dao) appears too late in the game to be of any particular importance. Other than that, the game starts with Ly dynasty, it took some odd twists of fate and a palace coup-de-tat for the Tran family to take power none of which is easy to replicate. So, no Tran family, no Tran Hung Dao i guess.


    Sorry for the double post

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Yep, I knew it. But he is pretty good general^^!
    Who Dares Win

  9. #9
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    The Trần will be included. How is another matter for another time, suffice it to say Dai Viet is not our current focus, but it was named as such so that we could incorporate both dynasties in one manner or another.

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    you can refer to http://lichsuvn.info/index.php/Vo-tuong/ , if you can read some vietnamese

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    In 1225, Tran family took the throne from the Ly family, which ruled Dai Viet from 1009 to 1225. This was a special event because Tran family took it in peace, there were no wars or rebellions.
    The ruler of Dai Viet was Tran Thai Tong: high authority, intelligent, good manner, high command
    Can you include this event in this mod as an event of Dai Viet ?

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Why dont you make the throne change by using a small clip ?
    Because there was a wedding between Trần clan and Lư clan, so the throne was claimed by Trần clan in peace
    When this event happens, a small clip pop up and the name of the faction changes, is that okay ?

    History
    Year 1226, Queen Lư Chiêu Hoàng crowned her husband Trần Cảnh King of Đại Việt
    December 1257, Uriyangqadai led 30 thounsand men invaded Đại Việt
    Early 1258, they retreated. End of the 1st invasion of Mongol
    2nd invasion ( Jan 1285- May 1285)
    3nd invasion ( Dec 1287 - April 1288)

    P/s: please dont translate our Vietnamese names to Chinese ( eg Đại Việt -> Great Yue)
    Last edited by SR_GemC; April 23, 2009 at 05:38 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by Hektor27 View Post
    Faction Heir : To Hien Thanh (age: unknown, but older than FL, reagent for the 2 years old prince, die 4 years later): high command, medium authority, very good management/chivalry; upright+loyal.
    To Hien Thanh had never been the faction heir. He is not a Ly's family member.

    Quote Originally Posted by SR_GemC View Post
    Why dont you make the throne change by using a small clip ?
    Because there was a wedding between Trần clan and Lư clan, so the throne was claimed by Trần clan in peace
    When this event happens, a small clip pop up and the name of the faction changes, is that okay ?

    History
    Year 1226, Queen Lư Chiêu Hoàng crowned her husband Trần Cảnh King of Đại Việt
    December 1257, Uriyangqadai led 30 thounsand men invaded Đại Việt
    Early 1258, they retreated. End of the 1st invasion of Mongol
    2nd invasion ( Jan 1285- May 1285)
    3nd invasion ( Dec 1287 - April 1288)

    P/s: please dont translate our Vietnamese names to Chinese ( eg Đại Việt -> Great Yue)
    There's a problem, what happen if we choose another family member not Ly Hue Tong and he have a male heir. Then the event Ly Chieu Hoang give the throne to Tran clan will be unlogical.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1912 View Post
    There's a problem, what happen if we choose another family member not Ly Hue Tong and he have a male heir. Then the event Ly Chieu Hoang give the throne to Tran clan will be unlogical.
    At that time, the power of Lư clan was so weak and the man who controled everything is Trần Thủ Độ ( uncle of Trần Cảnh, 1st king of Trần Dynasty). Because of his influence, Lư Phật Kim ( aka Lư Chiêu Hoàng) was crowned. So in my opinion, in 1224, there is a pop up message " Because of the power of Trần clan, the most powerful clan in Đại Việt at that time, Lư Chiêu Hoàng was crowned. Year 1225, Lư Chiêu Hoàng crowned her husband Trần Cảnh ( aka Trần Thái Tông) King of Đại Việt. The Trần Dynasty began". I think it's logical now ^^
    But you can change to make it more logical. It's just my opinion

  15. #15

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    and what will happen with all the Ly's family member? Gonna become like the Greek city faction in Extended Greek Mod where there is multi family line in one faction?

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1912 View Post
    and what will happen with all the Ly's family member? Gonna become like the Greek city faction in Extended Greek Mod where there is multi family line in one faction?
    vanish or be killed, whatever....
    but this is the game, just make all Ly's general disapear and replace by Tran's genarals :|

  17. #17

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by SR_GemC View Post
    vanish or be killed, whatever....
    but this is the game, just make all Ly's general disapear and replace by Tran's genarals :|
    very difficult in coding (i think so) and unlogical too. Because the Tran's family member always there and there's no historical report about the completely destroy of Ly clan. Some of them run to nowaday Korean.

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1912 View Post
    very difficult in coding (i think so) and unlogical too. Because the Tran's family member always there and there's no historical report about the completely destroy of Ly clan. Some of them run to nowaday Korean.
    I dont think it's hard to do this. Just make Ly generals disapear. Because in Tran dynasty, Ly people can not be general who control massive armies

  19. #19
    Augustus Lucifer's Avatar Life = Like a beanstalk
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    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    You can't remove or kill characters unless you know their name, and there's no way to do that mid-campaign, so it only works on any family specified in the descr_strat. We will pursue different options, but the game system of family trees is obviously not conducive to dynastic changes. However, the mod dHRR was faced with a similar problem and I recall them finding a theoretical means for selecting heirs, to some extent, so that will be looked into.

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Faction Discussion] Dai Viet

    I have a little idea about the symbol of this faction. As i see here http://www.moddb.com/mods/all-under-...owing-factions that symbol is so... strange. I suggest the "Chim Lạc", an important symbol on "Đông Sơn kettledrum" and very popular in Vietnam.

    On "Đông Sơn kettledrum" http://vuongtuyetngoc.vnweblogs.com/post/7327/86118

    And a simplifited symbol: http://suoiluongtourism-danatol.vn/I...n/chimlac2.jpg

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