[Faction Discussion] Goryeo

[Temuchin]

I've just quickly scraped the images off from google, so if there's a problem, let me know and I'll take it right down.

http://blog.naver.com/sohoja?Redirec...No=50044303098

This would be the link to Goryeodogyung. since most people here seems to be Korean, I'm sure there would be no problem in reading and translating the good stuff into english. The book actually puts a detailed effort on how Goryeo troops in the capital city was dressed, so it would be an amazing asset.

I believe the central army descriptions starts in book 9. search (장 위 1 仗衛一) using cntrl+f in the post an you're right there.


*I posted some pictures, but After going through the whole post in detail, I realized most of them were already shown-and in great detail too!- so I took them down *




http://image.ohmynews.com/down/image...B392160%5D.jpg

but lastly, this is a diagram of a Joseon cavalry from a military manual in the 18th century.
You can see the brigandine worn by the horseman, and he was equipped with a bow, sword, and a long flail that he uses as a major weapon. however, the long flail was introduced in the 16th century, so it's probable that an early Joseon cavalry would be equipped with lances and such, as well as dual swords(쌍검). I suspect that a Goryeo cavalry would be dressed and equipped in such fashion as well.

I hope this helps.

[StirFriedRice]

FACTION: GORYEO

This is a basic overview information to the dev about the Faction Goryeo, the following information is mostly historically accurate:


FACTION OVERVIEW
During this time (1171AD) when the campaign starts, Goryeo was largely influenced by high ranking generals in the army, whom called themselves Moo-Sin (General). These Moo-Sins had a lot of political and military power, and the council of Moo-Sins sometimes made national decisions, laws and sometimes forced the king to their own. Therefore, Goryeo Generals had a lot of authority (Can be a general trait/ancillary)

Goryeo's army was separately commanded by individual generals (Moo-Sins) who reported independantly to the Supreme Commander, whom, was still under command of the King. Its army was separated by provinces. According to the "Encyclopedia of Goryeo" it constructed more than 50 forts and small castles between valleys and forges from the Goryeo-Chinese border inspite frequent Chinese and Mongol Tribe invasions.


UNIT OVERVIEW

(Historical)
Strengths: Goryeo's penninsula geography made Goryeo's Naval power one of the top, if not, the best navy in all east Asia. The Naval Merchants Guild (Real), like the Merchants guild, provides discounts for the Goryeo navy, as well as allowed recruitment of special types of ships (I am not sure if you guys can do such thing)

Goryeo also brags in:
-Heavy Infantry, some of the best in Asia
-Armored Spearmen
-Some of the best Archers. (Korea won the Olympics in Archery 10 times a row)
However they lack in:
-Effective Heavy Calvary
-Light Calvary
-Ineffective militia. The encyclopedia mentions Goryeo militia had low armored civilians and retired soldiers with a short swords and forks. Militia Bowmen was also present at the time
Other military specs:
-Archeologists showed evidence that they used some mounted archers
-Advanced technology, second to China


THE HERALDRY OF THE GORYEO KINGDOM (I have removed their authorical titles like (Myeong Jong, Shin Jong, Hee Jong, but removed because its sounds too funny)

Historical Line of Goryeo kings


Due to some rulers who ruled for 3-5 years, i have deleted them in this list

1- King Myeong (1170-1197)
2- King Shin (1197-1204)
3- King Hee (1204-1211) Forced out of rule by Moo-Shins (Like Japanese Shoguns)
4- King Kang (1211-1213) Forced out of rule by Moo-Shins
5- King Ko (1213-1259)
6- King Won (1259-1274)

New Line of Choongs (They were formidable leaders, maybe +2 Authority?
7- King Choong Ryul (1274-1308)
8- King Choong Suk (1308-1339)
9- King Choong Hae (1339-1344)
10- King Choong Mok (1344-1351)
Line of Choongs End

Since Augustus mentioned the timeframe is between 1171 and 1181, King Myeong should appear as the faction leader, and Crown Prince Shin as heir



FAMOUS GENERALS

General Jung Joong Bu- A powerful and notorious commander who stressed the defense of Goryeo from the Mongol Tribal Factions, as well as tried to seize authority as Supreme Commander

General Che Choong- A famous general who is known to have more power and influence than his current king, King Shin. A great military commander and strategist, but a heavy drinker and a public pervert. Ruled militarily for five years 1172-1177 Died 1251.





RELIGION
Goryeo is mainly Buddist, but 5% Confucianism (I can't find the exact type of Buddhis during this time period- sorry


FAMOUS SETTLEMENTS(ADVANCED)

Capital: Gae Gyeong (Present Day Seoul)

Famous/Advanced Castles:
1-Cheon-Li Castle - Near the Tae Dong River (Actually a huge group of 9 concentric castles)
2-Seo-Gyeong- Present Day Pyeong Yang

FEEL FREE TO +REP ME

the site of the Goryeo capital is not present day Seoul but Present day Gaesung.

[jimanji]

it's from 무인시대

[jimanji]

Some famous individuals in the Goryeo Dynasty:
Kang, GamChan-General
Seoh Hee-Diplomat
Jung, JoongBoo-General
Yi, JongMu-General who conquered Tsushima (Admiral maybe?)
Kim, Bushik-Diplomat
Jung, MongJu-Diplomat
Yi, Yibang-General
Yi-Uemin-General
Yi-SongGye-General
Choi, Choong-Diplomat
Choi, Yong-General
Hwang, Hee-Diplomat
UeChun-Great Monk (Buddhist)
GyunYuh-Monk (Buddhist)
YunGwan-General
Chuk, JunGyung-Assassin
Choi, Musun-Merchant
Pak, SeungJung-Diplomat
Kim, YoonHu-Buddhist Monk who assassinated Mongolian general (Assassin maybe?)
JongCham-Monk (Buddhist)
Kim, GyungSon-General
Kim, YunHu-Monk (General)
Kim, Jun-General
YuGyung-Diplomat
Bae, JungSon-General

[yevon]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

don't should care about kind man like this. They always in everywhere. Not only on Korea, but also in Vietnamese, Campuchia, China, Japan, France,... One kind man always want say this nation's history or that nation's history is fake, no need have any evidence. I had meet many like this guy until now. Even this is his nation's history, he will very ready to say it.

This mod, no matter what, only is game. We no need have to too precise about history. This cavalry so good. I think mod really should add it in game. One kind Light cavalry strong as heavy cavalry in melee ( because they use long flail) and can fire as archer cavalry. I really see it will so good, more delightful than even "Heavy Infantry, some of the best in Asia" or " best archer" very much. Actually, as I say before, make " best archer" because... win in Olympic is ... little don't satisfy. You need have some legend more. If don't see good document in history, why you don't made some special army from your legend???

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

We Daiviet say Daiviet strong about crossbow because we follow a ancient legend about my Nation named Au Lac in 138 BC. In the legend, my nation have a kingdoms very good in using crossbow. And in 12XX, crossbow still very popular, too ( they good for using guerrilla tactic. Don't like bow, you no need have to train to use crossbow.

[Wundai]

Bobos, I deleted that last comment, since it was way too offensive against the Korean people.
You might want to rethink your choice of words before you hit that 'post' button next time you're on this forum.

[jjsjjw]

Hey, there's something I want to point out; The term of "King"

Goryeo was not a kingdom but a empire before the invasion of Mongol.

They called their ruler as "폐하(陛下)" which was only used to the Emperor.

And they called their Crown Prince as "태자(太子)" which was only used to the Prince Imperial,

and called their ruler's wife as "황후(皇后)" which was only used to the Empress,

and called their ruler's mother as "태후(太后)" which was only used to the the Empress Dowager.

Jin dynasty's Khan also called the Goryeo ruler as "Emperor" in a letter.

So you guys should change the term of ruler in Goryeo,

like

"1- Emperor Myeong (1170-1197)
2- Emperor Shin (1197-1204)
3- Emperor Hee (1204-1211)
4- Emperor Kang (1211-1213)
5- Emperor Ko (1213-1259)
6- Emperor Won (1259-1274)"


and it is right to call the ruler of Goryeo as "King" after the conquest of Mongol,

like

"7- King Choong Ryul (1274-1308)
8- King Choong Suk (1308-1339)
9- King Choong Hae (1339-1344)
10- King Choong Mok (1344-1351)"

[yevon]

陛下

well, In Daiviet faction, they call their king is 陛下, too. But Daiviet faction is kingdom, not empire ( exclude 1471 - 1500, King Le Thanh Tong really make Daiviet become one Empire when he destroy Champa and try to invalded Laos and attack Siam, Malaysia). I think, in all kingdoms had be effect by Chinese's civilization, they always use 陛下 to call their king.

as same as with 太子, 皇后, 太后, too.

[jjsjjw]

Goryeo itself was not the only country which call their ruler as the Emperor(皇帝), but Jin dynasty's Emperor, and Liao dynasty's Emepror called Goryeo's ruler as "Goryeo's Emperor(高麗皇帝)" in letter. Goryeo's ruler was considered as the Emepror by the other country, too.

And after the invasion of Mongol, Goryeo never called their ruler as Emperor, but called as Wang(王-means King) like Choong ryul Wang(忠烈王), and used the term "전하(殿下)" instead of "폐하(陛下)", "세자(世子)" instead of "태자(太子)", "왕후(王后)" instead of "황후(皇后)".
Also, Joseon dynasty, which appeared after the fallen of the Goryeo, never called their ruler as the Emperor.

We call the Japan's ruler, and Nguyen dynasty's ruler as the emperor, because they called their ruler as the emperor even though they didn't controll other countries. So, it should be applied to Goryeo, too.

After all, the fact that Jin dynasty's ruler and Liao dynasty's ruler called Goryeo's ruler as the Emperor(高麗皇帝) is the definite evidence.
So it is right to call the ruler of Goryeo as the emperor before the Mongol invasion, and call them as the king after the Mongol invasion.
Goryeo was a empire before the Mongol invasion, and became a kingdom after the Mongol invasion.

[Yelü Dashi]

Goryeo itself was not the only country which call their ruler as the Emperor(皇帝), but Jin dynasty's Emperor, and Liao dynasty's Emepror called Goryeo's ruler as "Goryeo's Emperor(高麗皇帝)" in letter. Goryeo's ruler was considered as the Emepror by the other country, too.

And after the invasion of Mongol, Goryeo never called their ruler as Emperor, but called as Wang(王-means King) like Choong ryul Wang(忠烈王), and used the term "전하(殿下)" instead of "폐하(陛下)", "세자(世子)" instead of "태자(太子)", "왕후(王后)" instead of "황후(皇后)".
Also, Joseon dynasty, which appeared after the fallen of the Goryeo, never called their ruler as the Emperor.

We call the Japan's ruler, and Nguyen dynasty's ruler as the emperor, because they called their ruler as the emperor even though they didn't controll other countries. So, it should be applied to Goryeo, too.

After all, the fact that Jin dynasty's ruler and Liao dynasty's ruler called Goryeo's ruler as the Emperor(高麗皇帝) is the definite evidence.
So it is right to call the ruler of Goryeo as the emperor before the Mongol invasion, and call them as the king after the Mongol invasion.
Goryeo was a empire before the Mongol invasion, and became a kingdom after the Mongol invasion.

...and your point is ? Goryeo will have an emperor, so will will XiXia, Jin, Song etc No one said the sovereignty of Goryeo was in question .

[jjsjjw]

So, I want to say that you guys should change the term of the "King" following the truth of history.

Not
1- King Myeong (1170-1197)
2- King Shin (1197-1204)
3- King Hee (1204-12114)
4- King Kang (1211-1213)
5- King Ko (1213-1259)
6- King Won (1259-1274)
7- King Choong Ryul (1274-1308)
8- King Choong Suk (1308-1339)
9- King Choong Hae (1339-1344)
10- King Choong Mok (1344-1351)


But you guys should change like this;

1- Emperor Myeong (1170-1197)
2- Emperor Shin (1197-1204)
3- Emperor Hee (1204-1211)
4- Emperor Kang (1211-1213)
5- Emperor Ko (1213-1259)
6- Emperor Won (1259-1274)
----after the conquest of the Mongol----
7- King Choong Ryul (1274-1308)
8- King Choong Suk (1308-1339)
9- King Choong Hae (1339-1344)
10- King Choong Mok (1344-1351)


I just want to point out your mistake about the term of ruler.

[smoesville]

----after the conquest of the Mongol----

But in this game unlike reality if Goryeo is conquered by the mongols it will cease to exist since the engine doesn't really deal with subjugated realms at all
It would likely read:

1- Emperor Myeong (1170-1197)
2- Emperor Shin (1197-1204)
3- Emperor Hee (1204-1211)
4- Emperor Kang (1211-1213)
5- Emperor Ko (1213-1259)
6- Emperor Won (1259-1274)
----after the conquest of the Mongol----
Mongolian rulers name

[jjsjjw]

No, no. Goryeo wasn't conquered completely. They had resisted Mongol for 80 years, and they achieved partly freedom. They still governed themselves and the King of Goryeo still controlled Goryeo.

Goryeo became a tributary like Tibet, not became annexed like Song or Jin.

Goryeo still got their own ruler after the Mongol invasion, and when the Yuan dynasty which succeeded Mongol was falling, they attacked Yuan, and got their north territory back which was annexed by the Mongol.

They still got their own ruler like King Choong Ryul, King Choong Suk. Althugh they were influenced by the Mongol's Khan hugely, they still governed themselves.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Hm, I wasn't aware we had even listed anything pertaining to ruler titles. Song doesn't have an Emperor in terms of a playable character, the other nations aren't determined yet, but the TW family tree system is not conducive to most East Asian royal families, as the royal family didn't operate the same as it did in Feudal Europe, which is what the system was designed to work for by CA.

Using the family tree to represent a hereditary royal lineage headed by the Emperor presumes that there was a prevalent tendency for relatives of the Emperor to act as generals and governors. This simply wasn't the case most of the time, and save a few, most of the Emperors during our time frame were placid. Only one I know of in the case of Goryeo contributed sufficiently to military matters, and I don't know enough about Gojong to say if he actually led armies or what. During the late 12th and early 13th centuries there was a lot of civil strife and military insurrections, so it's unclear exactly where the power lied and how best to represent it at this time.

We do however endeavor to represent the succession of Emperors in-game even if they aren't the 'faction leader'.

[jjsjjw]

q

[jjsjjw]

Actually, Gojong didn't lead the army. He was controlled by military subjects.

In 12~13th century, the ruler of Goryeo didn't have power, but the military subjects called Mooshin(like Shogun in Japan) got the power, and led the army. The rulers of Goryeo usually were dethroned by Mooshin just like the Emperors at the end of the Roman Empire. The emperor of Goryeo in that time was no more than a puppet....

And thanks for listening my opinion, and I'm sure that you guys must be doing good.

[medievaldude]

once i read a book about medieval korea and it spoke of soldiers who hurled these balls of gunpowder somthin lik that into enemies lik the naffatun or the dai viet prince's hurlers but but more explosively. there were peasants trained to use it 0,o hope it comes to some use in the units of Korea (Goryeo)

[RollingWave]

I think however, if there was SOME evidence that SOME of their emperors lead an army at some point then we can put them in game, as maybe in the case of the Jin dynasty, and Xi-Xia. (and obviously most other factions, I think the notable exception would be the Song, Dali, and maybe or maybe not Goryeo)

[tokimitsu]

Hey Guys, Break Time!!
Watching the Korean Girl's group, refresh your exhausted eyes

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nobody(2008) by Wonder Girls
English Version

[tokimitsu]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Tell me (2007) by Wonder Girls
Korean Version



So Hot(2008) by Wonder Girls