AUH: Suggestions and Ideas

[Augustus Lucifer]

If you have suggestions or ideas for the mod you're free to post them here and they will be considered for inclusion.

Regards,
AUH Team

[Double A]

Geishas for the Japanese clans would be cool if they are still coded into Vanilla. But you don't have to stress yourselves for one fan's random demand.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Geishas for the Japanese clans would be cool if they are still coded into Vanilla. But you don't have to stress yourselves for one fan's random demand.

Coded into vanilla? As in legacy code from Shogun? The engine completely changed in Rome so there wouldn't be any of that. For geisha, they didn't appear until a couple hundred years after our time period, and not in the capacity of espionage.

[Xuande]

Why not implementing a "kuriltai" (= parliament) special event upon the death of a Mongol faction Leader ?

When the Mongol faction leader dies, all potential heirs (criteria to be defined) have to go back to the Karakorum/Kharkorin area, in Mongolia, in order to "elect" the new Khan. If they fail to do it for x turns (to be defined), it triggers some negative events.

For instance, it could end with a civil war, half of the empire going rebel or creating his own faction.


This feature would be historically relevant since the invasion of Europe by the Mongols was actually halted/delayed by such a "kuriltai". Besides, the mongol empire started to divide into rival kingdoms around the time of Kubilai, the emperor who left Karakorum and the steppe to relocate his capital in what would later become Beijing. Failing to gather top generals in Mongolia within a given time could both embody :
1 - the conflict between "true mongols", faithful to their traditions (and hence to the "kuriltai") and "modernised" mongols [which roughly reproduces the civil war between Kubilai and Ariq Boqe],
2 - the regionalisation of power in later mongol empire (if you cannot bring back your "favoriti" generals to your cultural capital area in time, it means that you're loosing your grip over your empire).

This could be a fun and challenging feature, although perhaps a bit complicated to design.

------ edition -----

To make it harder for the player to bring back their top ranking generals to Mongolia for the election of a new khan, we could perhaps give some special traits & ancillaries to mongol general overstaying in large foreign cities :

For instance, for Chinese cities :

- "Lover of Chinese Culture" : This man delights in everything Chinese, from food to poetry. Since he left his wild horse for a carriage, some consider him as effeminate, but the Chinese appreciate his enlightened ways as a proof of the superiority of their culture.

+ 20% order in a Chinese city,
+ 10% in tax collection
- 10% building costs
- 15 % movement points
- 1 pt dread

Condition : staying in a large Chinese city for n turns, with a low tax rate.

- "Confucean Scholar" : A man well versed in the Confucean scriptures : + 10% order

With such traits & ancillaries, taking away a governor from a Chinese town would represent a sacrifice for the player. It could prompt unrest and a important tax drop while the general is away for the kuriltai. Besides, it would take longer for the general to reach the parliament location (because of his negative bonus on movement points).


The same kind of traits could be given for other cultures.

For instance, in the Western part of the map :

- "Heir to the shah" : Since he took the daughter of a persian king as a concubine, this man spends more time the rose garden of his brand-new palace than on the back of his horse. His patronage of islamic institutions is now is only pride.

+ 10 % order
+ 20 % health
+ 10% trade
- 1 command star
- 15 % movement points

[RobinCato]

@Xuande: Great suggestions. Thank you for posting them. Unfortunately your mentioned feature for the Mongol's faction leaders would become a pretty nasty thing, althoug it's historical right for the player. Imagine the player is in an advanced campaign game playing the Mongols and currently trying to conquer provinces far away from their home. Suddenly the Khan dies and he has to remove all his armies. I don't think that he would be very happy about that.

[Augustus Lucifer]

A good suggestion Xuande which I will look into in the future. The election of a new faction leader can't be altered or postponed to my knowledge, so the actual representation of the leader would be unchangeable. There are still other possibilities, but the difficulty is determining which generals need to return and which don't, since not all answered the kuriltai. As such it would be more micromanagement on the player, as they'd have to check their characters based on a trait which lets them know they need to return at such times.

It will be considered despite the inherent complications. Regardless though I like the traits/ancs you have listed and they are much more likely for inclusion despite the outcome of an effective kuriltai system.

[Xuande]

....The election of a new faction leader can't be altered or postponed to my knowledge, so the actual representation of the leader would be unchangeable. There are still other possibilities, but the difficulty is determining which generals need to return and which don't, since not all answered the kuriltai. As such it would be more micromanagement on the player, as they'd have to check their characters based on a trait which lets them know they need to return at such times....

Hummm ... :hmmm:That's right. My mistake. I hadn't thought about that ...

But then there would be a cheaper and simpler way to implement a kind of kuriltai feature by doing this :

- The khan dies.
- His heir is automatically selected (like in Vanilla)
- If this heir, the new khan, goes back to some specific place in Mongolia and that there are more than 3 generals in this "city", he gains the title (ancillary) of "Great Khan" (or something like that) :

"Great Khan" : This man has been elected by the kuriltai of the Mongol as the worthy successor of the Oceanic Khan, the great Temujin. His name is now revered far and wide over the boundless steppe.
+ 3 command stars
+ 3 dread or chivalry
+ 1 piety
+ 15% movement points
+ 10% order

On the other hand, if the new ruler doesn't come back to his Mongol homeland for many turns (number of turns to be defined), he could earn a few bad traits, or, even worse, another general staying in Mongolia and belonging to the royal line could get the "Great Khan" trait, which would immediately prompt a civil war lasting until one of the two is killed.

Anyway, good luck to you. Making this mod was a great idea so "may the blue heavens lend you their strength" !

[Yelü Dashi]

I actually thought about this a while back, but never really got anywhere in terms of conceptualising it.

We should also remember that kuriltai was also more generally a military council, a means of determining military action, planning campaigns and dolling out of titles. Genghis Khan was 'elected' by kuriltai 1206, but this wasn't the resuly of any other leader dying, but rather through his supremacy of the steppe.

In terms of gameplay, perhaps as a series of 'historical events' would generate a batch of transferable ancillairies (from the capital?) to the faction leader, meaning generals would have come to him or vice versa so he would effectively 'choose' who gets what titles etc

This isn't really my area, so ignore me if I am not making any sense.

I do love the idea of 'acculturation' affecting Mongol generals, perhaps there is potential to widen this to other factions ? Also important to remember whilst the steppe peoples were greatly affected by Chinese culture, not everyone was convinced ! Efforts were made by some Jurchen emperors to instil Chinese culture and practices to Jin society but then later a backlash occured, with a focus on reviving native Jurchen traditons. Perhaps a 'nativist' trait might be an idea ?

edit: basically agree with what Xuande is proposing but benefical titles other than 'Great Khan' might make the trip worthwhile for other generals.

[AnthoniusII]

I have i simple question...
Have you find a way to "rebuild" the cities and castles according to your factions in the battle maps?:hmmm:

[Augustus Lucifer]

I have i simple question...
Have you find a way to "rebuild" the cities and castles according to your factions in the battle maps?:hmmm:

Argantonio and KnightErrant already have created the world extractor which achieves these ends. There are still some complications with it, but Wundai is amply experienced from RNJ on battle map buildings, so once we get on to that business it should not be a terrible affair. It is lower on our priority list of course due to inherent complications.

[AnthoniusII]

Argantonio and KnightErrant already have created the world extractor which achieves these ends. There are still some complications with it, but Wundai is amply experienced from RNJ on battle map buildings, so once we get on to that business it should not be a terrible affair. It is lower on our priority list of course due to inherent complications.

I saw Wundai's work in RnJ and it is great!
I hope the 1st release of AUH wont take three years to come in public thoigh!
A very well organised and luxurius work so far!
A great team's work!!!

[TheLastPrivate]

Regarding Kuritai, would it be a coding abyss if it were to be implemented like the Papal election? I guess it would be a little...different from actual history but heirs getting back to Karakorum sounds a little demanding, why not have a general "election-ish" event?

Rather than having negative results from not being there physically, giving negative/positive traits based on the outcome of the election might be interesting.

Of course, provided that it doesn't swallow up our coders

[Augustus Lucifer]

Of course, provided that it doesn't swallow up our coders

Corrected that last word for you.

Even if you held an election there would still be no way to decide who the faction leader is based on it, as it is automatically determined immediately after a person ascends the throne, when a new prince is chosen, and that person ascends immediately after the old leader dies.

As well, it would be scripting, as opposed to coding.

[Double A]

Those Chinese city traits sound interesting...

[Göteborgare]

Seeing some art(osprey) of chinese military 1260+, i was some pictures of Chinese cavalry armed with a spear, with a bamboogun attached under it, sort of like the grenadelaunchers moder guns have.

I dunno if this could be implemented, but would be a nice addition.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Seeing some art(osprey) of chinese military 1260+, i was some pictures of Chinese cavalry armed with a spear, with a bamboogun attached under it, sort of like the grenadelaunchers moder guns have.

I dunno if this could be implemented, but would be a nice addition.

This unit is already in production. The weapon in contemporary sources is called a fire lance, and it very much shoots the tip if the spear with the explosion caused by the gunpowder chamber nestled underneath it. As pertains to this it only has one real 'shot' so it would likely be used much like a pilum before a legionary charge. The backup weapon is debateable after this.

It was nominally used on walls, but we have no way to represent that since it was a (fairly) short range weapon, which means you'd need to be able to fire on units mounting siege engines, and the game engine doesn't seem to let you blow up people on ladders. Nor does it let us specify a field version and a siege version, the latter having obvious access to more lances beside them on the wall.

[RomanSoldier9001]

Will the Hojo Clan and Fujiwara clans make apperences?Hojo Clan could be a emergent faction.

[Göteborgare]

This unit is already in production. The weapon in contemporary sources is called a fire lance, and it very much shoots the tip if the spear with the explosion caused by the gunpowder chamber nestled underneath it. As pertains to this it only has one real 'shot' so it would likely be used much like a pilum before a legionary charge. The backup weapon is debateable after this.

It was nominally used on walls, but we have no way to represent that since it was a (fairly) short range weapon, which means you'd need to be able to fire on units mounting siege engines, and the game engine doesn't seem to let you blow up people on ladders. Nor does it let us specify a field version and a siege version, the latter having obvious access to more lances beside them on the wall.

Ok.
The look i got on the two pictures it seemed like it was a weapon by itself which shot some gravel or whatever was in it, but kept the spear so that you could use that as a weapon afterwards.

But you'd have to fire it first, because i dont know thrusting with the spear will do with the load.

The other picture was of a 'Southern Pirate', he had a sicklespear(i believe they are called that), with two of those things on it.


And fun to know that they were called Fire Spear, now i know that the weapons in Suikoden werent all fantasy.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Will the Hojo Clan and Fujiwara clans make apperences?Hojo Clan could be a emergent faction.

Short answer, no. Long answer, they will make appearances when the player is playing as the Taira/Minamoto by way of challenge faction. Our faction list is very much decided upon and we don't feel that using faction slots and giving ourselves more work for minor things such as oppositional forces is the most proper way to go about it. It is a good suggestion though.

[Wundai]

I saw Wundai's work in RnJ and it is great!
I hope the 1st release of AUH wont take three years to come in public though!
A very well organised and luxurius work so far!
A great team's work!!!

Thank you
Edit: sry don't have anything useful to add to the discussion here though