Heavy horse archers...the most worthless type of unit in ss?

**frontier-auxilia** · January 12, 2009, 10:33 AM

Seriously do you guys see a point fielding dvors cavalry and armored horse archers? They are expensive, lacks a punch, can't fight for

in hand to hand, easily caught and destroy by enemy melee cavalry

Can any fine tactician here enlighten me of how they can actually be useful?

**Navajo Joe** · January 12, 2009, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by frontier-auxilia

Seriously do you guys see a point fielding dvors cavalry and armored horse archers? They are expensive, lacks a punch, can't fight for

in hand to hand, easily caught and destroy by enemy melee cavalry

Can any fine tactician here enlighten me of how they can actually be useful?

I use Horse Archers of all types to flank attack the enemy army. Now if that means drawing off their Cavarly to chase them from the battlefield or seek melee, that will leave me the option of getting my Cavarly behind their battle line and finishing off their infantry. Naturally it would be better to use the non-armoured variant, as they are faster, cheaper and keep enemy cavarly chasing longer.
I would hope that the purpose of armoured horse archers would be initially arrow attack, then draw sword or axe and engage with benefit of armour.

**Point Blank** · January 12, 2009, 11:06 AM

Yep just keep them at long range and expend all arrows, then close in on vulnerable foot or into the flank of other heavier cavalry. These units are pretty arrow-resistant at long range and OK in the charge and melee due to their armored horses.

**Bacon!** · January 12, 2009, 11:23 AM

Heavy horsearchers have won me many fights as Kiev, i usually keep them in my later armys and have a general with a few units of them going round to clean up any rebels, they work like a charm

**MightyMak** · January 12, 2009, 12:12 PM

Hungarian Nobles are the same type of unit and they absolutely own. I'm playing a Denmark campaign (my first) and I sure am missing them. Use up their arrows then charge the flanks or even head on into infantry (non-spear) or archers. I usually use them to draw away/eliminate enemy archers/crossbows due to the fact they usually give more damage than they receive because of their defense value and have pretty good range on their arrows.

**Angrychris** · January 12, 2009, 01:57 PM

takes practice, horse archers are the best unit in game if not within top 3. Keep fire at will off(unless persued) and you'll get it.

**Gogolometro** · January 12, 2009, 02:42 PM

Maybe the guy have a point, are heavy horse archers not light one.Heavy horse archers need to face armored units, good missle units and good cavalry so both their bows and melee weapons became obsolete.The HA sucess is based on no armor light armor who can be pierced by a arrow, against armor is nothing.Is a terror unit for a poor militia with padded but when they came to atack my metal clad army I ignore them.And are some fast units who can kill HA.My last experience is with byzzies like enemy me using the Venice.HA against my light cavalry aka sargents mounted.So lets end the myth, are good but no uber.Even a egyptian general 10 stars and 25 bodyguards have their godfathers.Is about planing.

**Angrychris** · January 12, 2009, 02:44 PM

strategy

**TheSavage** · January 12, 2009, 08:50 PM

Advantages of Heavy Horse Archers:

1) They don't get chewed up by enemy arrows as easily. Heavy HA vs. Light HA, and heavy wins.

2) They are much better at melee. Light HA can charge enemy archers but not decisively, and they'll take losses. Heavy HA can usually finish off enemy archers pretty quickly.

3) They probably shouldn't be used often for frontal charges against heavy infantry, but they'll do more damage with fewer casualties on rear charges.

4) If they do get caught by enemy heavy cavalry, they can survive long enough to get away.

**Deadly Rabbit** · January 12, 2009, 09:31 PM

I agree. I will often use a combination of light and heavy horse archers. Light to harass and skirmish, heavy to skirmish and then hit exposed infantry in flanks. It is stupid to try and use these guy's against enemy heavy cavalry, but they should either be able to outrun or outfight most enemy light and medium cav. They are like the WWII German pocket battleships, could outgun anything they couldn't outrun.

**magraev** · January 13, 2009, 01:40 AM

Also most heavy HA have stronger missile attack in game, so they are better against the more armored opponents also. (ex: Dvor vs Kassacks)

That said I prefer the quick elite HA like the byz vardatorai (sp) over the heavier HA like sipaphi.

**Staffen** · January 13, 2009, 02:16 AM

outgun anything they can't outrun

Only correct answer to the question, INDEED!

**Henry707** · January 13, 2009, 02:34 AM

Sounds like a bit of troll post to me. Try playing the Mongols & you'll see the difference. You really need to up gun to the heavy guys as soon as you can. The light horse archers just can't take the punishment.

**kozakk** · January 14, 2009, 03:38 PM

Heavy horse archers are probably my favorite type of troops. Once you get the hang of using them they become indespencible in cavalry focused armies of the rus or mongols.

They can still run away from anything heavy enough to be a threat to them. And anything that can catch them they can take on on in a mele engagement.

First its a goo idea to keep them togather and focus fire, i like to go for the enemy calv first. Then if you have a few units of heavy calv going after them you can scatter the units into different directions so as the enemy calv goes for one or 2 of the unis the rest are surounding them and assaulting them with arrows, when the enemy heavy calv has been suficientlly weakend you can charge, which leads to another deadlly arrow assault, by the time you engage them they should be routing. I have cripled many armys this way with loosing minimal number of archers.

They are very usefull as a flanking forse unlike light archers they can flank heavy inf without getting masacred.

They can also easilly take out enemy archers and get away befor being engaged.

THe onlly thing that is really a threat to horse archers is heavy calv, and as i mentioned with a bit of strategy they are easy to take care of.

**Gogolometro** · January 14, 2009, 04:22 PM

I am not sure but heavy HA are top end units?They need to face what type of enemy mounted or dismounted?These guys are steppe unit, what power they have vs steel armor of europeans?

**kozakk** · January 14, 2009, 04:52 PM

Hevilly armored units are tougher to hit, but if you concentrate all your archers on one unit at a time they still manage to be lethal, especially if you position them behind the enemy line or surround a few enemy units.

They can be usefull against any type of troops depending on how you use them, but they ar particularilly usefull if the enemy army is low on calv, then they get pretty much free reighn on the battlefield.