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  1. #1

    Default What I change in SS

    General changes

    First all catolics european rooster need to have halebards units.Dont care if have different names, militia or not but these guys are something like a king talisman.Any king have a guard of halebards in ceremony.I think mailed knights is a very bad name, better will be the "knights".I think is a shame to see this guys at late games in 1400 with golden chevrons all upgrades maded and looking like a hunter vs a marine infantry.My suggestion is to allow 2 uprades why not 3 with adding better armor, better weapons and shields.Like an evolution from padded and mail to plate maybe.
    One big problem is the muslim factions.They are boring, ugly and sometime more than wierd rooster excepting turks who in my opinion can be named "otomans".
    Other thing I will change are the peasents.Lets face it none used them and a fork warrior look like dunno kids armed with rocks vs a abrams tank(the mounted knights?).
    Bring back Timbuktu, was very nice to rich that city of proffit in the middle of nowere.In this map we have huge masses of land never used at all.
    Is a shame in middle east kingdom of Cilicia is absent.They will change in good all aspects of the game and we have a lot a mercenearys to start a basic rooster.

    About Factions

    These is huge thing.

    English:
    Too much archers, really who need 4 units of elite archers, peasents archers and plus militia?Come on is not wierd is boring.2 are more than enought plus peasents and militia, or maybe militia archers changed to militia crossbows?
    Their infantry sucks bad because 4 units of billmas.The heavy one are great bu I suggest to cut light ones and in towns recruit halebard militia and in castles nothing just a nice freespot.
    I think last unit of navy is a must to be a good ship, they raise like challangers to spaniards so they need a good ship, a very good one.
    Their bodyguards need to be better, their kings was like heroes most of time and they need an accent there.Loyalty was bad all time in english crown so I thing we need less loyalty similar like HRE.All thetime barons have contested their kings.

    Scotts:
    These faction in my opinion is very well maded except for 1 thing they look very, very ugly.I cant think nobils need to look so bad, monkeys are more nice than dublehanded swordsmans they look bad with ugly bearbs, long hair and most of units no chance to see difference from rabble to nobils.Is about small details but I think can be done easy.

    Irish pub warriors:
    Lot of people ask to be removed, In my opinion I am not agree.Are great, good rooster and a big problem for England.But I am not strongly against change them to other faction.Dunno maybe some strong(really strong)rebels can be an alternative.

    Frenchies:
    They are good near perfect, in my opinion is very good maded and I not seen what to change.

    HRE:
    I thing because is a mod is better to put them in a fusion with teutons.Like in 1280 to have available the teutons units or only when some building available/constructed.I thing I thing will be nice to implement are saw in other mod like ideea and is already used in SS.Units to be builded only in some regions.That will be more nice and than HRE will look how was in reality a federation of state under elected emperor.

    Danemark and Norway:
    What I change in their rooster will be the availability of stadard DFK/chilvaric.I see them like viking warriors lets keep them in this way.Why to have norse swordsmans and DFK?We can add to norse swordsmans similar atack/defence values and we have balance.Right?
    Mounted huscarls for me are obsolete unit, ugly and not very usefull.We have feudal, bishops and chilvaric.Huscarls for what?Dont tell me about axes the maces of bishops work 10 times better, and they are a infantry rooster like all north europeans scotts, english...

    Lituania for me are a nice flavour but I thing to add some light to their skins a drop of color and a bit better armor is not so bad ideea.

    Novgorod and Kiev are great nice, distinctive and very good to use the huge russian planes maybe cossack mounted are a bit wierd?

    Poland have 2 units available from start mounted crossbows and piasts.A bit overpowered?

    Hungary is nice faction but 2 HA units make them like a nomad faction but they are no more.And mustache units like battlefield assasins make them like a ninja faction come on.Green, brown and red are not the best combination but their colors are huge improvements from vanilla.
    Their expansion to south is bad, unbalanced and unhistorical.Most of time they have a love/hate story with 2 factions Poland and HRE not sieging Byzantium.We need to make the Balcan provinces very strong rebels, maybe a bulgarian faction can do this better?Dunno...

    Byzzies.HA, heavy infantry, heavy cavalry all they need.The single recomendation is asimilation of all CBUR in SS.Is a fantastic job of that submod.

    Turks are great but again we have some clone units, otoman archers, turkish archers and some crappy units like azabs and 2 units of spears in towns.Better is to add to their rooster some units like albanian infantry, armenian infantry/cavalry and why not serbian knights.In fact without janisary and spahys in ottoman army all conquered provinces sent their troops.And I am sure HA was a very small part of their army, very small.Too much HA and we have some mongol nomad armys not janisary flavor.Ah they beat mongols remains and asimilating them in army.We can have Turkish HA and a mongol HA.2 units of HA, just 2.And spahys mouted was something like a light lancers unit.

    Templars let them how they are.

    Persian Empire is the only muslim faction who was worked very well.In fact are very few things we can change there.

    Cumans:
    They have a very bad situation.They are in poor lands, very cheap and average units at low levels and very few atributes to survive well.I think they must treated like this in early age been nomad faction rooster with HA, light cavalry/infantry and archers.In late campaign they have the valachia like provinces no more russian field maybe 1 provinces in Caucasus.More european look in late campaign and is not a fantasy 300 years the Valachia have it cumans rulers.

    Egyptus:
    They have the same muslim flavor ugly portraits, and long shields for militia?
    I thing saracens armors must be generalised and add in majority round covered with metal shields.

    Moors are the most seen like trash of sahara in my opinion.Lot of crappy units and ugly looking.In my opinion their rooster need to be split in 2 things:saharan/north african and iberians.Delete all clone units with almost same stats and let make them a bit more over powered.The reconquista wasn't easy it last 400 years.Did you see how powerfull are iberians?
    So some tuareg units, camel gunners, tuareg spearmans, camel lancers, desrt archers and a nubian gunners and the iberian/cristian equivalent.Shorter roosters but enought powerfull to make France to fell the power of maurs?
    They need color, arabesque and maybe an counterbalans from a other muslim faction in Tunisia who existed hystorical?Important thing, north africa was not a desert, is not now just sand but 1000-2000 years ago was a very good farming area, and moors have it a very well irigation system been a very advanced technology civilisation.Other thing we need to have in mind because was a very tolerant faction I thing they need to cut the problems of religion, cristians or muslims living very all.

    Iberians are ok in all aspects, good looking, good roosters but a bit too big like starting settlements.I thing spain can live with 2 provinces, portugal and aragon with 1.Yes will be hell but is a must to make them to have a lot of time before can achieve reconquista.And Moors can be more tolerant with them or maybe allied with spain at start.

    Italians are great in many aspects but a bit too similar.I think make them more individual is great and this can be maded without stealing a spot for 1 new unit.We have 2 italians type of militia, 1 can be deleted.Are 2 types of xbows can be 1 recrutaible both in citys and castles.We have for them hangunners, arquebusiers and muasketeers.We can cut handgunners. They have armored and unarmored sargents we can cut the weak one.Sicily can share their Normand Knights with England(cutting the english Feudal Knights).

    These are my ideeas, very personal and I open this topic for debate and teoretical improvement of this wonderfull mod.Dont blame me if not like my ideeas just add your opinions and corect me were I am wrong and I made mistakes.Thank you and I espect your feedback.

  2. #2

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    theer are a lot of good ideas here, not all of which i agree with but i dont have time to go into the details. 1 point that is repeated throughout that i think is a place where real improvment can be made. that is the existence of clone units. combining the militia and non militia of many units (such as archer, xbows, bilmen) would open up a lot of space for new and exciting units, especially for the muslim factions which feel a bit dry at this point
    “Being a Humanist means trying to behave decently without expectation of rewards or punishment after you are dead.” ― Kurt Vonnegut
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  3. #3

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    I hardly agree with anything you have here, TC, but one thing I totally disagree with is your suggestion to have the Moors allied with Spain at the start. That is an absolute no-no. If ANYTHING, they should start out at WAR, because the Moors represented the Islamic/Arab invaders from the south who were finally pushed up by the Renconquista. The game takes great liberties by leaving them neutral at the start.
    All Under Heaven. Go.

  4. #4

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Was a suggestion, I am not sure if happend for real, only like an ideea if we have catholics weak and moors uber to not let happend them to be obliterated.Or maybe some rebels actig like a barrier?Or Developed Moors but not agresive with them?Dunno.

  5. #5
    Gnostiko's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    I agree with the Muslims needing beefing up, however I'd have to disagree on Albanian/Serbian troops - leave them as a an AoR unit. It would look odd with the Turks having access to Balkan units if they never make it to the Balkans.

    I'd also have to ask how you can nitpick historical accuracy but not have a problem with the Templars?

    Oh, and it's roster not rooster, unless you're taking about fowl

  6. #6

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Turks at late campaign with a fortress will be able the recruit them or better if they control procincess can acess the unit.I think this related units, provincess is a good ideea for some factions.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    I liked a lot of what you said Gogolometro, but I agree with Gnostiko that balkans units should be AoR only. It would really suck to see Turks recruiting Serbian knights or bulgarian brigands in Diyarbakir and fighting the Cumans with them. Also, agree that Templars have got to go. How can they be in Tortosa in 1080 before the first crusade and the order was ever founded? I think all the knightly orders, Templar, Teutonic and Hospitaller should be emergent only, if at all.

  8. #8
    Caesar Clivus's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadly Rabbit View Post
    I think all the knightly orders, Templar, Teutonic and Hospitaller should be emergent only, if at all.
    I disagree regarding the Teutonic Order. They actually controlled large swathes of the Baltic after their northern crusade.

    BftB2 UPDATED 22nd DECEMBER. Member of the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster team

  9. #9

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    I think about a crusade state who incorporate Jerusalim kingdom but with a strong hospitalier and templar rooster.About turks in late campaign when they became powerfull after 1300 and if they conquer some regions, can recruit the serbian, albanian allies.Is acurate and add a more othoman flavor.About cumans if in early can be a steppe army in late I saw them like rulers of north Danube with more european rooster similar like pagan Lituania and sharing units from byzzies hungarian rooster.
    Hungary is very likely to be near to atack HRE and Poland.We must put rebels slavs/mongloian in ucrainean,moldavian steppe.Is no way Hungary to use HA vs some slav levys in Iasi and Bucharest.Need to tell you Bucharest was not existing before 1300?
    My ideea is to understand in late in 1250 we have mongolian hordes in danube delta and carpatians mountains who are stopped by logistic and less coehesion.In 1250-1300 Hungary was stopped by Turks, Valachs(ruled by Cumans) and Serbians.More likely to see Hungary conquering Zagreb than Adrianopole.Another thing is to make Constantinopole Hery strong to face well turks with cannon towers and good defending force but not so good field army to start ruling in greek area and balcans.I think the CBUR map of late is a very good example what can be done in SE Europe/Anatolia.Poland is nice to have a love/hate relation with Hungary.They have a long history of this.
    Back to turks after 1350-1400 and asimilation of mongols(Caffa?) was happend and they always use them like pinning force in wars in Balcans.If I love to see Mongols of Gracul and I like how they pillage half of map, I want to see them in AI control to diband slowly and a death of their huge empire and a revigoration of Turks and Novgorod.
    Same can happend in Levant, Mongols who atack Persan empire, Turks and Egypt than Fattys killing their ambition before fail themselfs against otomans.
    Dunno but Cumans horde to balkans not stay to be crushed by mongols.
    And what i think is very important is Cilicia kingdom with capital at Antiochia.They will be the barrier to eary development of huge turks,egiptians or byzzies.Crusade state starting only in late with 3 provinces Jerusalim, Acre and Kerkak maybe Rhodos and Cyprus.Will make Asia Minor more interesting and more "alive"?

  10. #10
    Emperor of The Great Unknown's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    to solve the problem of templars and orders why dont we just advance t he campain from lets say 1080 to 1110 or somthing of that sort.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Agree Cesar but why not under Crown of HRE ruler?Why not Praga like capital?Why not every city with specifical unit or becaming availabla only you control that town?
    In fact are some units who can disapear in HRE units but filled with "teutons" or viceversa.No need to keep crist knights but you can have at least at erly HRE generals looking more like teutons generals.If HRE have so bad habbit to revolt and surounded by enemies I think can make better war with 3 types of war.We can put Bologna under presure with chance of revolt above 75%, with replacing with very strong rebels, same strong rebels for Florence too, these will keep iatalians stopped from fast trade explosion.HRE in war with pope from start but no more crusade against them, at least not against their starting citys.Excomunicatethem but cant call crusade, is important the crusade kill fast HRE.This never happend and HRE is the halt for french, polish, hungary and scandinavian fast empire building.I think is wrong to kill so fast HRE.Like moors, weak moors fast we have a iberian building an empire and starting o raid france.Lets temporise a bit this busniess.And France is ok to lose Caen, Rennes and Bordeaux but not Paris and Reims and Metz.And if we have a trigger of Wallace lets put a trigger for Joana D'Arc too when Paris fail in English hands why not?

  12. #12

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Emperor why not Acre with Joanites house the Kerak with Templars house, specific 2-3 units available when this are hold by crusade state?

  13. #13
    Gnostiko's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gogolometro View Post
    And if we have a trigger of Wallace lets put a trigger for Joana D'Arc too when Paris fail in English hands why not?
    That's actually a very good idea, I don't know why that hasn't already been implemented.

  14. #14

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gogolometro View Post
    Better is to add to their rooster some units like albanian infantry, armenian infantry/cavalry and why not serbian knights.In fact without janisary and spahys in ottoman army all conquered provinces sent their troops.
    Albanian infantry? Albania didn't have powerful armies and they were crushed by Turks very easily.
    Serbian knights? While Ottoman Empire was growing and growing, there were some scared Serbians, Bosnians, Croats etc. who joined their armies. But 90% of Serbs fought against them to death. There was a battle of Kosovo where whole Serbian force and every Serbian noble got killed by Ottomans. After that, Serbia fell under rule of Ottomans. That means there were no Serbian knights in Turkish armies. What Turks did in newly conquered areas is taking by force children, even newborns, and training them in professional fighters.
    Last edited by ivac; January 12, 2009 at 10:07 AM.
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  15. #15
    Taien's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Ivac, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ankara 20000 ... Serbian nobles were vassals to Seljuk Empire after Battle of Kosovo Polje (Serbian Empire has already fallen apart after Car Dusans death). Christian children who were taken away from their mothers have formed the Jannisaries. I partially agree with Gogolometro,but i too think that Moors should definitely NOT be allies with Iberian kingdoms.

  16. #16

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Don't blame me, it's my history teacher .
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  17. #17

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    What I know in sultan army was not only syrians but albanian and serb cavalry too.Even greeks seed their janisaries baracks.Was something like this, you control some provinces you get some units.Is about what happend in all empires and because i see is posible for Egypt why not to use this feature for other empires.I know in CBUR was maded something similar.I think this can make more imersive.

  18. #18
    Gnostiko's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gogolometro View Post
    Was something like this, you control some provinces you get some units.
    There are already about 3 minimods floating around that incorporate AoR.

  19. #19

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    I like the idea of trimming clone units, its silly to have so many.. I'd personally like to see Sergeant Spearmen for all European countries... Muslim factions, especially Moors- in my opinion need a-lot of work.




  20. #20

    Default Re: What I change in SS

    Dunno...maybe Spain with armored spears will be too powerfull or maybe less inspired.I put 1 time these heavy guys to run a bit lets say 1 minute, the situation became very nasty they became exausted.We talk about sunny, hilly hispania.Not so good ideea chasing some muslim fast cavalry.

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